Data is meaningless if you don't use it... 5000 plus survey's returned. 12 focus groups with 140 volunteers. Roughly an 80 member working group over nearly 3 hours. Impressive statistics. Patiently waiting for the reports from the RCSC regarding the 56K ASU survey and followup (which may have been far more important) to be released. The results should be coming out soon, at which point we all need to ask; "What's next?" The question ultimately takes me back 10 plus years ago. In 2012 i had just been elected to the RCSC board of directors. I had ruffled some feathers with my campaign and overly aggressive posture on what Sun City needed to do to return to our glory years (1960-2006). Several board members resented me. Honestly, i was never a good poker player. I wore most stuff on my sleeve and tended to be blunt to a fault. I also made a fatal mistake in believing the general manager and i were on the same page. Shortly after being elected, i walked in her office, closed the door and had a come-to-Jesus meeting where i laid out my vision for Sun City's future. I had lots of experience turning membership organizations around. Virtually everything we had been taught was the importance of getting to people as early and as quickly as possible. Those who had languished and their opinions had calcified were a much slower process and a much more difficult project. Not impossible, but clearly more work. It's why i presented the data to support my proposals. By 2012 we were just come out of the housing crunch, prices were ridiculously low and home sales were exploding. The future looked brilliant with 2000 sales per year average becoming the norm. That meant staggering PIF revenues and a really bright future. We knew that 2000 number wasn't totally pure but pretty darned close. Even back then there were a handful of flippers that skewered the number as well as changes when the title on a home changed and a PIF fee was triggered. Even with that, the math was fairly predictable. With 27,500 rooftops and a turn rate of a very conservative 1500 new home owners over a 10 year period, it was 15,000 new RCSC lot assessments and the number of new members (approximately 25,000) was a startling 75% of the population. As i presented my plan for restoring that sense of community it was steeped in reaching those new buyers before they even settled. We know what DEVCO did with new member coffees (weekly), pot luck dinner's (monthly), promotional pieces featuring new home buyers and monthly community gatherings...everything was geared to meeting, greeting and welcoming those newbies into the fold. It was a massive effort, but it paid enormous dividends. The new home owners became Webb's best sales force. So much so they had a policy; "no hard sales by any salesman." In fact, they were told if they high pressured any potential buyer they would be terminated. I explained to the former GM how we could replicate some of these efforts and within 10 years we would become much like our predecessors; setting the course for our future with members who loved Sun City and would become willing activists in working with us. Sure it would take some work, but easily doable and as we grew the new residents excitement levels, many of the old-timers would be reinvigorated. Little did i know her vision was 100% opposite of mine. She looked at those turn-over numbers and calculated over a ten year period, we could create a whole community that didn't care. That would just buy into Sun City and have fun. She won, we all lost. As members stayed home, the concentration of power and control was shifted entirely to the GM and a handful of board members who sat in the majority. They became contented with the GM dictating direction and committees and the membership were reduced to "cardholders." Then the crap hit the fan in 2021 and everything the GM built began to crumble. Yesterday's news and really all that matters is what we do with the enormous amount of data that will be revealed to us shortly. Will we use it or lose it? Will we create a strategic plan going forward? Or, will we squander the myriad of suggestions by putting it on a shelf and staying the course? Was this an exercise with a purpose or an effort to placate the masses? Lots of questions and once we see the data perhaps we can begin to cull out the answers.
"Use it or lose it?" Hopefully use it and have the proper follow-up. I'm still waiting for a real Town Hall.... After the report is presented, I'd like to see opportunities for some new forms of community building and ad hoc groups. Fingers crossed.
As long as you don't hold your breath scj, you should be okay. I asked the question for a reason and given our recent history (the past 15 years), it doesn't bode well. There's seldom been a long range plan, strategy or commitment. It's more often than not been a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants, reactionary exercise effort. To be even more blunt; let's call it "lipstick on a pig." The biggest problems with shortsightedness comes when you run out of lipstick and you see how nasty things have become. While many of us got excited/angry about all that carry forward money, it wasn't about saving it, not even close. It was about not spending it on the things we so desperately needed to have done. Money in the bank is meaningless if the infrastructure is collapsing beneath us. There's no point reliving the myriad of mistakes, though the most readily recognizable one is our technology. Had we kept up to date as we went, the RCSC would have been in a position to address the needs and expectations of the membership. From security and safety (two key agenda items from the survey) to realistic data collection that provided direction, we would be ahead of the curve, not behind it. Throw in stuff that shouldn't even be issues; pool furniture, crumbling pool decking, out-dated exercise equipment and the like and you quickly come to understand the challenges the current board faces are the makings of the past 15 years where saving money was more important than investing it in the community's needs. If that was our biggest problem, it would be fixable; simply spend the cash on hand and get caught up. Sadly, it's not. During those past 15 years we have taken the most perfectly written community documents and dismantled them. They worked in total symmetry; each of the stakeholders in the community had shared responsibility. The checks and balances between the members and the board created co-equal opportunities for governance. The management team could provide value added ideas, but the structure also included actively engaged committees assigned their niches that helped the community set direction and added another dynamic for safeguards. With those gone, everything changed. We became an internally run organization with control in the hands of a select few. If those few had been infallible, it might have worked. They weren't and worse yet almost no one was held accountable. Beyond the top down style of leadership, we lost sight of Sun City longest standing tenet and one of the reasons for our success; the membership. It wasn't by accident the way Sun City was built. From very early on, DEVCO understood the amazing pool of talent from those moving here. Tapping into them was a logical approach. Unfortunately, the decision was made to run from it. There was a question in the survey that was haunting (at least to me). We asked the respondents whether they would rather volunteer to keep us affordable or just pay others to do it for us? It's long been my fear as i watched the RCSC push the membership away and let the hired help decide what was best for us. I know some get excited when i call people " the hired help," but when you think about it, many of the decisions being made have wreaked of folks who saw us as a business and not a community. That's not to say we shouldn't make smart decisions, but anyone who would argue non-residents should have privileges greater than the member/owners doesn't have a freaking clue why Sun City exists. Sorry, to be so crass, but that's just the reality that comes from knowing our history. Of course when we spent the last 15 years running from it, rather than embracing it, it explains how we ended up here. All of which leads me back to the question; what's next? Is there a plan to use the amazing collection of information, or did the board just do it because it sounded like a good thing to do? The upside is this; the new board is much more in tune with the membership; the bad news is, how much are those 9 board members able to do when the management team looks angry at this new direction (think not? Watch the last board meeting and exchange, both their body language and facial expressions when questioned)? Perhaps even more daunting is; how do you rebuild that working relationship with members who have been told to stay home and just have fun? It's a long road back and unfortunately one of the traits of the boomers and gen x is short attention spans. Instant gratification has become our way of life. I only know this; better communication, more transparency, absolute honesty and restoring relationships will be imperative. Our saving grace can be found in the survey results: Seniors buying into Sun City still love it here, now we need for them to feel like they are part of the solution as we move forward.
One word comes to mind when i think about the challenges ahead for the 9 member board: Daunting. I'm pretty much an optimist but i also suffer from being a realist. If our technology was up to date and we weren't still arguing over whether carpetbaggers from outside Sun City weren't taking prime time tee times with half price golf passes, we'd have a far better chance. Unfortunately, neither of those have begun to be fixed. The tech fixes have been plagued by too little money and too many "supply chain" issues. The other side of the coin is the full play outside passes that were broached a year plus ago when the management team made their impassioned plea to let them fix it. We all knew it was crap and now we are going to be living with it for at least another year. It was pure folly from the get-go and is what happens when management looks at revenue as the reason for their existence. Clearly they don't get it and in all likelihood, never will. The real elephant in the room is the Mountain View rebuild. The previous board's decision to move beyond the requested remodel and build the Taj Mahal on the small site was ludicrous from the start. It all made sense, until it didn't. You know, like when the 40 million dollars was thrown out there and the 8 year, three phase project was hyped as the second coming of Del Webb. Sorry, but the simple economics of this massive effort should never have even hit the table. Grandiose plans like that are foolish. The SCA will be an interesting exercise. Lots of different agendas at play in the room. Throw in the complications of every board member having an opinion about what belongs where and one quickly comes to grips with the enormity of the collective process. In my humble opinion, those living down and around Mountain View need the center's ugly problems resolved, but doing so should easily be done for less than $20 million. If they are able to pull that off, their next focus should be the Lakeview center. Don't even get me started on how i would begin, because i would piss off half of Sun City with my recommendations. It's a huge piece of prime real estate and maximizing the space would mean aggressively analyzing our needs over the next 10 years. That's means substantial forecasting of what will be popular and what won't as the Generation Xer's start pouring into Sun City. I've written before, trends are the window to the future. While that hasn't been how we have done business in the past, it's high time we start now being realistic about where we are going. Let me shout this out so i am loud and clear: BLUNT, INTERACTIVE COMMUNICATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO ACCOMPLISH REALISTIC GOALS. I know that sounds over-simplistic, but it's not. I've found, over my years of organization building, it all starts with clear unambiguous communication. And to be even more clear, it cannot be one way...top down is a recipe for disaster. Beyond those problems is the relationship between the board and management. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the strain. I know the management team preferred the previous style where they just told the board what they were going to do and the board blessed it...but that's exactly how we got where we are today.
My son is 50 and thinks Sun City is awesome. I talked with him about what improvements should be done. I took him on a tour of all the rec centers and talked about the lack of technology. His comments were spot on IMHO. He said the buildings appeared to be solid and well built so why tear them down, give them a nice face lift. He said paint can go a long way to make something look good, at least get away from the drab tan/beige. He said some pools need repair and Mountain View could use sun shades and total resurfacing. He said; “would newer updated buildings like fairway be nice, of course it would, but at what costs, you don’t have unlimited funds”. He also said his generation generally likes to stay up later, so having maybe one center like Bell staying open late would be nice. Of course that is him at 50, how will he feel 15 years from now. His overall thoughts are similar to mine; fix what we have, give Sun City face lifts where needed, replace fitness center equipment, and get the technology up to date. Doing all that might have a price tag trending towards the $40M, but it would be across all of Sun City, not just one center.
Being a fairly new resident, I have read the comments online, in the Independent, and have watched meetings both in person and online. I agree with many comments identified above about making the upgrades where upgrades are needed. However, after attending several theater and band performances, I truly believe an auditorium with tiered comfortable seating would be a boon to this community and could be utilized by all the music clubs, theater etc. The current option of uncomfortable folding chairs on a flat floor is NOT conducive to a comfortable, or enjoyable time. I wonder how many of our neighbors just stopped going to these events because they could not see around the person in front of them or could not stay comfortable in the chairs provided?
To my point of fixing what we have, I was just over at the fairway walking pool and there are numerous chips and pits around the top edge that need patching and that is our “newest” rec center.
Hey Katherine, welcome. The quest for a performing arts theater has been a long winding road. Originally DEVCO was going to build one on the corner of 99th and Bell Road when they built the Bell Rec Center (1975/1976). It was going to seat 1800 and would have had all the bells and whistles. Cost overruns of 5 million dollars at Bell scrapped the plan. The Players have been arguing for their own theater ever since. Obviously it has been a hard sell. I've seen several plans that never got any headway. The challenge now is the board last year bundled everything but the kitchen sink into the 40 million dollar option 2, 8 year remodel. It simply is too expensive for such a tiny footprint and so few RCSC members utilization. Don't get me wrong, i'm all for an immediate Mountain View renovation. The real question is; what does that entail? The good news is its not my job to figure it out. I know this, 20 million dollars at MV is a boatload of money and would create a wonderful turnaround for the third oldest rec center. The members living around there both need and deserve it. The bigger problem is the theater. No one is addressing the data, at least not that i have looked at. Theater attendance is down across the country. Typically attendees were older patrons. The pandemic clearly attributed to that downturn, but even before that theaters were losing ground in the entertainment field. That would be the target market (older people) and the good news is, Sun City is filled with them. Therein is the challenge; will a 400 seat theater be something 10 years down the road means something to that next wave of Gen X home buyers? I know that sounds silly for those longing for more comfortable chairs, but we've too long labored under failed assumptions that if we spend a fortune on something/anything, everything will work out. Is there logic in looking at a far larger multi-use space, centrally located in the middle of Sun City? One that potentially could be used instead of the Sun Dial auditorium for live concerts? One that could be used for events that would showcase perhaps the most visually attractive setting we have in all of Sun City...View Point Lake. Again, not my call, but i am in favor of a cohesive strategic long range plan predicated on available data and forecasting the needs and expectation of those coming here. Slowing down and doing it right is way better than just doing it. Previous boards and management were terrified of asking the membership what they wanted/thought was in the community's best interests. It is how and why we have the issues we have today. You cannot undo past mistakes, but we all can learn from them. Hope that makes sense and again, welcome to TOSC.
I've heard and seen those comments a number of times Bruce. Sadly it isn't confined to just Fairway. We know there are problems with the pool lounge chairs at Marinette and now i hear their pool decking has issues. If memory serves me, it wasn't all that long ago they put down a new rubber membrane surface that was supposed to last for a very long time. Cool decking had been the norm and that surface seldom wore all that well. We hear monthly from the GM about the "4000 work orders" completed each year. That's admirable but the real question is, what does that entail? Is replacing a light bulb a "work order?" Doesn't matter because the simple reality is the amazing amount of space the RCSC has to maintain is staggering. That said, if each center has a manager, then each center should have the ability to request work orders to maintain that space in a manner members have the right to expect. I know this sounds critical, and it is intended to be. We know, the management team for too many years placed way too much emphasis on saving money from year to year, rather than spending it. We know for example if the RCSC had remained current with our technology they would not have as much carry-forward money. We know if they had added more modern fitness equipment and maintained pool decking and the furniture around the pools, they would not have as much carry-forward money. We also know if they had been investing in those things we could be doing a far better job with security, safety and data collection. Which would you rather have? Money in the bank or our amenities up to date and our safety concerns met? How is that even a realistic question? It shouldn't be. Had they been investing in our future we would be ahead of the game and not playing catch up. It's even more likely we would have been having to raise our yearly assessment. While some may lament that, the reality is if we are to remain relevant in the age restricted marketplace it shouldn't be because we have the cheapest assessments, but because we are the most unique. Sun City changed the nation and the way they looked at "retirement," now is not the time to become shrinking violets by hoarding cash and ignoring the needs of the membership. PS. Want a shocker...look at the new projected costs of the South golf course turf reduction slated for 2025. We had projected 8 million dollars from PIF, now it could be 2-3 times that. I wonder how much of those costs will be covered with non-resident outside full-play passes? Oh wait, none. That all comes from those of us buying and actually living here. Duh!
Until management can provide an accurate budget and projected completion date of necessary improvements and upgrades to our current facilities, it’s going to be same shit, different day. We’ll be beating that same dead horse five years from now unless the board starts doing their job and holding the general manager accountable and responsible for improvements. Anyone that thinks that continuing to build a huge bank balance and raising the annual assessment but not spending any additional toward improvements really needs to take a closer look.
And that's why I say that Mountain View doesn't need to be another full-blown recreation center when Fairway is less than a mile away. They added Grand as rec center to a community that basically doesn't grow, so they should scale back Mountain View and get back to 7 rec centers. They cost a lot to run, maintain and staff.
Eliminate the rec center at MV and put in the theater that will be obsolete by the time it’s finally finished because the next generation of buyers don’t care about it.
The whole Mountain View discussion is one that will always be contentious. What i can safely guarantee is Mountain View won't be eliminated. It's a popular venue and one those living around it prefer over all the others. For some reason users claim it is the "friendliest" center in the community. Not being a user, i can't explain it but can tell you it has long been commented on by members in that tone. Years ago i wrote one of our biggest challenges would be space. Nope, not outer space, but requests by clubs for dedicated rooms that would be their own. I may have missed the mark because i was thinking in terms of both the greatest generation and baby boomers. Hell, even the tail-end of the boomers are different from the those of us at the head of the curve. It all begs the question, will clubs continue to be a part of Sun City's future? It's one of the reasons i found both the focus groups and the working group report so interesting. Clubs will clearly play a role, but i think it is safe to say they will evolve. It's one of the reasons i have long argued for a space allocation committee. To Karen McAdam's credit, she requested flat space utilization numbers and many of us were shocked with the results. Lots of down time in large rooms and especially at Mountain View. Once the Players were taken out of the equation, it sat empty the vast majority of the time. I struggle with the performing arts venue, not because i am against us having one, but i am more focused on if we are going to spend a massive amount of money on something that it should be used as much as possible. Anything we build should be determined by insuring we maximize the utilization so there is a return on investment...and i'm not talking financially, but from a membership needs basis. The idea that 3 plays a year and a couple of musical groups have a great 20 million dollar venue is hard to swallow. That said, if we are able to incorporate comfortable seating for concerts, lecture series with name attractions, a more attractive venue for large RCSC gatherings and community events in a location that is more centrally located and in a gorgeous setting that showcases all we have to offer to potential home buyers, i'm all in. I know the Players just want what they want, but my mantra has always been "big picture Sun City." For far too long we have ignored that mindset. We spent the past 15 plus years running from the membership and letting the GM and a handful of board members determine our future. It was a strategy i balked at, bitched about and at one point tuned out and turned away from. I had taken my best shot to stop it and failed miserably. Then the old adage, "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was put in play. When Karen was fired and the community became incensed, everything changed. I never expected to witness the turnaround. The new GM replaced the old GM and he was neither as polished or as effective as she was. In fact, the more he argued with the members, the worse it got (for both him and the board). Since the election last year, his demeanor has improved, but clearly he is not happy with this paradigm shift. Time will tell if he gets on board as the memberships' role is enhanced and the changes the new board are proposing become our future. To sum it all up, we need to use our space (amenities) better. We need to insure, the members get priority. We have an enormous amount of money to invest in our future but we need to spend it wisely, with a purpose and a cohesive, strategic long range plan the membership endorses and supports.
[They added Grand as rec center to a community that basically doesn't grow, so they should scale back Mountain View and get back to 7 rec centers.] Active members will increase with the younger generation moving in and maybe already has. You'd rather not pay for staff, an apparent theme. The Board, community, and staff should be working harmoniously. There's a lot of experience. Why are former boards segregated to sound like they weren't also members?
I'm not a fan of cutting space or costs, just better utilizing it. I'm also a firm believer that data should be used to help shape those decisions, rather than just pretending data matters. Of course being able to collect it better would help. Not sure what you meant about former boards being segregated? Clearly they had to be members to run for the board. That said, many when they leave, are just happy to get away from it. A few years after we moved here (circa 2007) i walked into a restaurant in the Grand Ave center for a meeting. I came across a dozen or more former RCSC board members who would get together monthly. I knew most of them pretty well and stopped to chat. Their lament was the RCSC had no interest in utilizing their years of experience moving forward. If you think about the date, you would quickly realize it was a time frame when the new GM had a vision that had little to do with the past and was carving her own path into the future. It's an interesting question when you consider how critical i've been of the past 15 years. We (yes myself included) allowed her to become the prime decision maker and seldom questioned or challenged what she felt was right. There was literally no accountability. Now all this time later, looking back, was it the right choice? I know how i feel about it? How about you?
There was nothing more interesting to me than the work done by the 12 focus groups with participation from 141 members and then the ensuing followup with committees and senior management. Included were the goals each suggested they would like to accomplish over the next 3 years. It was a litany of items that were impressive and perhaps unattainable given the volume of work they would take. Either way, either reaching them or moving forward towards them, Sun City will be a better place...as long as they are shelved and forgotten. Perhaps the most troubling aspect of "1-3 year goals was from the director of golf. He listed three items, 2 of them i get, the third tells me he still doesn't get it. They were: 1). Work with AZ Dept of water resources restrictions and reduced allocation. 2). Redo natural turf footprint to no-turf. 3). Manage balancing the needs 0f the residents with meeting financial goals. 85% of the play is from RCSC members. There is no such thing as balancing the needs of the residents against outside play, sorry, but outsiders should never get preferential treatment over members for cheaper golf rates or for prime time tee times. Never. Sun City West collect more than 20% of their golf revenue from outside play and they have bylaws stating they have to meet two criteria: Never cheaper rates for non-members and never first choices for tee times. It's that simple.
My family's theater attendance outside SC is down to almost zilch due to the increased cost of theater and concert tickets -- even no names are commanding $50 for nosebleed seats. I suspect that's the case for patrons nationwide, as well. But I'd think affordable theater inside SC could actually counter the national trend ? Alas, the current situation (uncomfortable seating) has dissuaded us and many we know from attending most RCSC events (old bones just can't sit that long on a folding chair!)[/QUOTE]
