The Future is Now...

From ND
So a nice relaxing view will now have a huge structure blocking the view of the lake. I guess there are no other lawn bowling areas that could be used

I’m with you on that. Let’s go inside a building twice a year and sit in the dark to watch a play and enjoy the view of the lake. Does not make sense to me. I think a healthy activity with a great view is better for more seniors.

they are planning to build this performing building where the lawn bowling is! a 2 story building right next to the lake. Why can't they leave the lawn bowling alone? build this building somewhere else. I am so upset and these lawn bowlers are livid!

why do we need this after 60 years?

The fact that a site has been mentioned shows there has been a lot of thought put into this already. Think Libraries.

we sit at that lake many afternoons and have enjoyed watching the bowlers and the serene of the lake for a few years now! we are also members of the Sun City Yacht Club and go to the lake weekly and race the model boats and it all takes place right next to the lawn bowling area.

You don't get to say. Someone is always preaching about how this is a self-governing community. Think of Taiwan (Sun City) as a self-governing democracy. However, Beijing (RCSCBOD) claims it as its territory.

 

Yes, don't we. Tattling on me on ND. You were the little girl in pigtails in the back seat with your siblings yelling mom he's touching me! Mom make him stop touching me! Yes Chris. I was putting together a statement in Word to copy paste to ND, however you stole from my Halloween candy dish didn't you. Tattling is a pattern with you. You tattle when I post a comment on FB too. Whatever floats your boat.

 

Tattling? Really?

This is why we can't have serious discussions on this site.

It too often devolves to a whiny, childish display of insults from someone's ego being hurt.

 

Yes the little ones have to run and tattle. It's exactly what she did, take it up with her, not me. And BTW Bill my response was to Tom. You and Dave are the biggest offenders in the lack of civility department on this site.

This is so adult like. Ideas from other sites can't be shared without Chris running to tell on me. Good Lord. Is she 70 or 7

FYI Comments from this thread are being shared on Talk of Sun City. Your content, not your names. This is allowed, just letting you be aware.

“From ND So a nice relaxing view will now have a huge structure blocking the view of the lake. I guess there are no other lawn bowling areas that could be used I’m with you on that.

Let’s go inside a building twice a year and sit in the dark to watch a play and enjoy the view of the lake.

Does not make sense to me. I think a healthy activity with a great view is better for more seniors. they are planning to build this performing building where the lawn bowling is! a 2 story building right next to the lake. Why can't they leave the lawn bowling alone? build this building somewhere else.

I am so upset and these lawn bowlers are livid!

why do we need this after 60 years?

The fact that a site has been mentioned shows there has been a lot of thought put into this already. Think Libraries.

You don't get to say. Someone is always preaching about how this is a self-governing community. Think of Taiwan (Sun City) as a self-governing democracy. However, Beijing (RCSCBOD) claims it as its territory.“ Source: https://talkofsuncity.com/threads/the-future-is-now.6009/page-3

 

Chris never said a word on TOSC about whatever happened. That comment came from one source/person.

What happens on Next door should stay on ND. Just my opinion eh?

 

I believe root causes for the gradual decay of Sun City have been clearly identified. I also believe our community has made some progress in addressing some of our shortcomings. I believe there is a greater sense of urgency and renewed interest by many community leaders to be involved in a positive way. I fear some on the board may be drifting back into the alter of ego from which we came. Evidence of this includes telling the members what has been decided but not involving them in the decision-making process. The members are left searching for how the board arrived at any particular conclusion. What is the overall plan and what data supports any particular step in the plan? When one raises a question, they feel like Dorothy standing in front of the wizard of oz as he tries to intimidate her crew into going away.
As always, these observations are intended to be thought provoking for all that read them and not in any way a negative indictment of our community. I believe that any organization is only as sick as its secrets. I have witnessed firsthand Board meetings in which the Board and the previous management thought that heavily armed guards were required in order to safely hold a meeting. I pray that our community or our nation never have to experience that again.

Best regards and God Bless,

John

 

Chris as usual runs to tattle on me if I cross post as she calls it.

Chris T.
•Sun City Estates•9h
FYI Comments from this thread are being shared on Talk of Sun City. Your content, not your names. This is allowed, just letting you be aware. “From ND So a nice relaxing view will now have a huge structure blocking the view of the lake. I guess there are no other lawn bowling areas that could be used I’m with you on that. Let’s go inside a building twice a year and sit in the dark to watch a play and enjoy the view of the lake. Does not make sense to me. I think a healthy activity with a great view is better for more seniors. they are planning to build this performing building where the lawn bowling is! a 2 story building right next to the lake. Why can't they leave the lawn bowling alone? build this building somewhere else. I am so upset and these lawn bowlers are livid! why do we need this after 60 years? The fact that a site has been mentioned shows there has been a lot of thought put into this already. Think Libraries. You don't get to say. Someone is always preaching about how this is a self-governing community. Think of Taiwan (Sun City) as a self-governing democracy. However, Beijing (RCSCBOD) claims it as its territory.“ Source: https://talkofsuncity.com/threads/the-future-is-now.6009/page-3

Josie P.
Author
•Boswell Blvd•6h • Edited
Chris That's cute. No one will join TOSC and they need to know what people think, not that it matters. Some are even my comments Chris. You were right. We do have children here. What makes you think I was not compiling a list to post myself?

And no, most folks I have tried to get to join will not because of you and dave. You need to hear what others are saying and thinking. If Chris wants to act like a child and run around screaming "cross posting" not my problem.

This is not your site Bill, and you would be banned in a heartbeat from ND for language and hate speech.

Solve it all Bill and start your own website. That way you and the 5 that agree with you can bask in your joy together.

 

This place is so bad there is a post on ND where a resident got in a car accident and needs surgery. Linda t0ld her to get with the foundation, but didn't reach out for anyone to help her. No car, surgery and no one will reach out. They just sent her a notice they will put a lien on her home. I realize Linda is still out of town but c'mon. You don't need an MBA to send someone to give the woman an application. Or call some other agency to check on her.

This is one of many reasons why I think SC will never be what it was. There are too many egos, too many narcissists, and too many that just plain don't think.

If I want to post opinions without doxing someone, I will if I think it will help. God knows this place needs it.

 

Large organizations like RCSC can seem impersonal. They tend to follow the rules and mitigate the risk. I am glad Linda (who is an unpaid volunteer) asked the subject of the ND post to reach out to the Foundation for assistance. Apparently, based on the limited facts presented, she did not reach out to the foundation and RCSC followed SOP (which includes late notices and a variety of other communications) and put a lien on the house after the assessment had not been paid for many months. Perhaps the facts are different, but I know from experience there are always two sides to every story.

 

This proves my point perfectly. A woman not sure where to go for help with assessment reaches out on ND. Linda Mc says go to foundation. Having surgery, no car, maybe she can't get there on her own and your response is there is usually another side to the story. We all know how difficult it is to make a phone call to do a quick check to see what/if the other side of the story is. Why bother, as "no one probably gives a sh*t about her either. And everyone wonders why the Foundation failed. Janet wrote a couple of posts about her attendance at a couple of foundation meetings, which I will look for and post for you.

John I worked for Sun Health Foundation for 17 years. It makes SCF look like a 5 and dime. We were never impersonal. Neither is Benevilla, or St. Mary's. or The Olive Branch.

 

"Since I have attended several of the Foundation meetings, I can attest to at least a degree of confidentiality. When their business meeting is over and they start reviewing individual files, any guests are required to leave. That is certainly understandable.

It sounds like their application process is very rigid and too extensive for the amount of money the Foundation disperses. At one meeting, I heard some on the Foundation Board say some disparaging words about the applicants such as, "Many just spent all their money instead of saving." "A lot of people know how to work the system." The application says that the person seeking assistance needs to be 67 years old, but they will make exceptions. However, it was said. "We don't want that information to get out there." For a philanthropic organization, those don't seem to be very charitable comments.

I am sure the Foundation has helped many individuals over the years. This past year 32 people received $350 of gift cards from the Santas for Senior project. Four other people were approved. One died and the other three weren't home when the Foundation tried, on more than one occasion, to delivered the cards. My thoughts were, "Can't you call or email them to set up a time to either deliver them or pick them up at the Corporate Office? Maybe even use certified mail to get them to the recipient?" The extra $1800.00 of gift cards were put into the safe for next Christmas. Again, couldn't the recipients get $500 or maybe give them some at Easter or Thanksgiving time. Nope! Once I learned that my donation was sitting in the safe, I decided to contribute to a different organization helping seniors in Sun City.

Most Foundations publish Annual reports to let their donors know how much revenue they took in and how it was used. Ours does not. The last meeting I attended the treasurer gave a very vague synopsis of their finances. He said, "As you can see, we are in good shape." One Director joked, "Let's have a party!" When I had a chance to comment, I asked if they had plans to spend the $200,000 that someone bequeathed them in 2023. They don't and the donor didn't make any stipulations on how it would be spent. Honestly, I think they were surprised that I knew about it. As of their March meeting, that money was sitting in a money market savings account. I think it would be a good start for them to start building an endowment. If the Foundation publicized their donations, others may decide to include the Foundation in their estate plans. I guess they think they have enough money already.

Since they do not publish the minutes of their meetings or their financial reports (which are required to be public by the IRS for 501(c)3 organizations, a person has to fill out the forms to receive them which I have done in the past. (HH, again those forms are not electronic so you need to fill them out by hand, take them to the Corporate Office or mail them, and wait for them to decide if they will provide them. What year is this? 1985?)

So much potential.......such small outcomes!

Janet Curry, Jun 8, 2024"

Wishing Janet much luck in fixing this broken piece of Sun City.

 

Sun City's history has been filled with pivotal moments. Times when our future hung in the balance and decisions were made that framed our direction to go right/left; forward or backward. Even while the Del E Webb Development Corporation (DEVCO) was subsidizing the community (1960-1978), those living here were asked time and again to make important decisions. It was seldom left in the hands of the few.

Once they left, the real infighting started. 1981 was easily the most impactful battle over direction in our history. With DEVCO gone, the choice between those wanting to maintain the status quo and those that didn't was abundantly clear. The dozen candidates had clearly presented platforms where members decided; go forward or stand still. The outcome wasn't lopsided, but those leaning more progressively won the majority..

By the late 90's, with our amenities aging, we saw a similar struggle. The more progressive/aggressive forces on the board argued for a remedy to deal with owning all these buildings and golf courses and no way to pay for it other than raising rec fees (it wasn't changed to a lot assessment till the early 2000). PIF was born and rewrote our history yet again.

In 2003, the board passed the change from per person to a per household lot assessment. They "grandfathered" the existing owners. 21 years later, it's proven to be divisive, but changing course is problematic. Had they known the history of per person/per household they may not have done it; or maybe they wouldn't have cared.

In 2006, one of the more impactful board decisions was made. They hired a general manager and gave her more authority than any time in our history. We know GM's had always been hired to run the day to day operations. In 06 and with each passing year, the board gave away and the GM assumed more of the responsibilities in the community's direction.

On its face, it made sense. Baby boomers were coming in droves and the argument was they should just move here and have fun. We dumped the "City of Volunteers" and became "Sun City, the Fun City." The downside was home owners/members became less involved, less committed to the process of ownership, responsibility and the bigger problem...a lack of accountability.

As the GM was leaving and coming out of the pandemic, a new GM was hired. By then a group (Sun City Advocates) was born and while some hated their actions, those of us involved had one goal, one agenda. We wanted to identify candidates who believed the members voices mattered. Over three election cycles, 9 candidates we endorsed were elected.

We saw the impact of those we had supported. Committees (SAC and budget and finance) worked through the summer of 2023. Truly impressive and a far more open and transparent process was established. Members were invited to town hall sessions and committees became more open. It was the beginning of a new day.

I know, long winded. The point of the review/reminder is a direct response to John's comments above. We dare not go backward. We worked too hard to get where we are. As John noted, it's far from perfect, it is however better. Also as noted, change is hard, especially if we want or expect the members to have a voice. Anyone who has ever served on a non-profit board knows the pitfalls of simply ignoring the masses and doing something quickly and easily. It's the trap that John talks about.

With all that in mind, i would make this one simple recommendation. We know there will be 5 candidates elected. Some will have had a year of experience under their belt, some will be brand new. With the turn of the calendar to 2025, i would hope the RCSC's first agenda item is an aggressive education process on the importance of board members knowing the history and understanding their role in conjunction with both the management team and the membership.

It's really an interesting dilemma as the GM may or may not want the board to understand just how much authority they have and may not want them to grasp the value of the role the membership could/should play. We'll see eh?

 

Enough Josie, let's just freaking stop with comparing the Sun Health Foundation with the RCSC Foundation. It's comparing an apple to an elephant. God spare us the sainthood of how great they are.

Here's some simple comparisons:
1). Sun Health has collected 10's of millions of dollars from Sun City residents over the years. The Sun City Foundation has received less than a million dollars from members (mostly from one lawn bowler who used it as a write-off to help subsidize the RCSC and lawn bowling). They elected not to target bequests like the Sun Health Foundation did.

2). The Sun City Foundation has never had an employee other than some secretarial duties provided by the RCSC on a very limited basis. Their board has been made up of volunteers who receive zero dollars in compensation (NOTHING). On the other had the top three officers of the Sun Health Foundation in 2022 had more than $900,000 dollars paid to just them in salaries.

I'm not attacking what the Sun Health Foundation does, or has done. The point is they were built, funded and have become a great payday for those running it (and have been for a long time). The Sun City Foundation was created and elected to play small ball. Was it a mistake on their part? Probably, which is why i am excited and delighted to see some new energy come to the SCF.

 

Thanks, Bill!

 

Seriously Bill? You are telling me what I can and cannot say? That was a reply to John who said sometimes large corporations can be perceived as uncaring. Well SCF sure is. Here are some responses to the person asking on behalf of her friend where to go for help.

Shes alone and needs help with her Sun City dues. They sent her a letter stating that they will put a lien on her place.

Call St Vincent de Paul. I think they do things like this.

NO THEY DON'T HELP I TOO NEEDED HELP WITH THE PAYMENT THEY TOLD ME TO GO ASKED THE CHURCH , S, I MEAN REALLY, NO ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT A PAYMENT PlAN, NO THEY NOT GONNA HELP , JUST KEEP RAISING IT PRICE N OUT PPL, ALL ABOUT GREED

I agree. They will offer her a payment plan. She just needs to contact them to request it and ask what plans are available.

Not sure there is one in place now, however it was suggested at the last budget meeting that they put one in place. I hope they do. It was also mentioned they accept monthly payments but that was not received well.

hope they do. I've worked in the industry for 10 yrs with 2 different management companies and I've done payment plans with hundreds of owners in many different HOAs across the valley and I had to follow each one to make sure the homeowners followed through. I'd rather help them if I can than see anyone lose their home.

ALL THEY CAN SAY IS IT WAS N UR CONTRACT, JUST ,YES TRU THINGS, HAPPEN WHEN UR OLD, LIKE STROKES, LOSS OF JOB, S, INFLATION, SICKNESS, OF ALL KINDS, NOP DONT CARE, JUST PAY. GREEDY

Operation Blessing helps lots of pple

Have her check Findhelp.org

If she works, they won't help her. It's a farce! My neighbor applied and got no help and their house was forclosed on.

She can file bankruptcy and keep her house and have the lien discharged.

Linda was in on that thread. Why couldn't someone reach out? You are a piece of work, thinking you have the God given right to tell me what to do, or anyone for that matter. Every time someone says something you don't like you berate and either kick them off your chat side or like you did Tom McClain tell them to get off this one, which unfortunately he did.

Maybe it's finally time for a letter to The Independent.

 

Yes Bill they did, but not only from SC residents (and it wasn't millions) otherwise the $12 million per year obligation that went to Boswell, Webb and The Research Institute every year would not have happened. They did it with 5 Philanthropy directors and the CEO and 1 assistant secretary. I am very proud to have been a part of the Sun Health Team and proud of what they did and still do. Quite unlike what happened to me here last march, and obviously currently happening to the woman on ND.

And for clarity there is 1 CEO of the Foundation, the other two are Sun Health as a whole, including all there independent and assisted living facilities. Compare their salary to the CEO of Banner who makes $12.4 in total compensation, with $8 million of that in cash compensation

Enough Bill. Time to "turn the page" to a kinder, gentler, younger BOD with some fresh new ideas.

 

I agree with Bill that the training of all directors has to be a very high priority. Too much is at stake and the quality of our director training stinks! The GM prepares the director training so he or she can fine tune it to have the Board Sit, Beg and Roll Over on the GM's command. No two training sessions contain the same material. If the Corporation still had a Legal and Regulatory affairs committee, they could help design an excellent and consistent training program THAT INCLUDES AN ITD HISTORY SECTION - HOW DID WE GET TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY?
I hope the seeds of change have been planted and a new breed of wholistic leader is emerging. I hear questions being asked by the Committees and members at large regarding adequate supporting data that has never been presented for major capital decisions that have supposedly been made behind closed doors.
At the risk of being wrong I believe Bill and I agree RCSC is at another inflection point. The members will either accept a future that continues to be filled with agenda driven board members "horse trading" with one another behind closed doors on how to divide the available pie or will insist upon a comprehensive expertly developed plan for the allocation of resources in the future. As everyone knows, I favor the latter.

Best regards and God Bless,

John

 

Director training should be done by someone from the outside. There are many good resources out there and people who are qualified to conduct them. It would be some of the best money spent in the long run.

 

I agree with you Janet. People don't want to go to meetings when you have someone flailing around yelling. You can't find out at the 11th hour the libraries are closing. We can't show up at a meeting and have the board say oh BTW the new PAC will be here blocking the beautiful lakeview and it will cost 14 million. Did anyone do a study to find out if we need a new PAC? There are about 3 shows a month in the first 3 months of 2025. Do we even have the 2nd library contract signed? Never heard anything. Did anyone read the comments from the folks on ND I posted here? If they were not posted here no one would have a clue how folks feel. Then I get my hand slapped for something called cross posting.

The people I have asked to join TOSC said absolutely not. The reason is why should I when there are 5 to 10 people who just agree with each other and any new input is not allowed if it doesn't fit the narrative. There are many people that like this community, and many that don't and just ignore what's going on, which is fine. My neighbors rarely missed a board meeting. Mom would point out the window and say there goes the parade (of cars). They stopped going around May 2007.

People do not feel like this is OUR community. We never get asked our opinion about anything, and when we do like the ASU Survey nothing happens anyway. So why bother. I hear all the time "self-governance is not easy. It must be. I equate it to Taiwan (Sun City) as a self-governing democracy. However, Beijing (RCSC BOD) claims it as its territory.

But what do I know? I am just a secretary as Dave said. "I did very well in roomful of business executives as opposed to you typing notes from business executives passing yourself off as some sort of glorified Secretary."

 

Instead of building a 14 million dollar PAC that will only be able to accommodate very few and small venues, they should spend that money with Board Source for training and give our Directions the tools they need to properly do their jobs and function in a manner that best supports our community.