Supporters of Karen McAdam Facebook Group

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by OneDayAtATime, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Member

    GOAL: Get butts in seats at the Monday, September 13th meeting of the Board of Directors at 9 a.m. at Sundial Auditorium. How do we do that?

    WHY: Enable members to brainstorm ways to get Karen back on the Board. No idea is a bad idea.

    WHO: The idea was conceived by a small group of people who wanted to do something but just didn't know how to reach the over 730 people who voted for Karen McAdam or who, after watching her at the Board meeting, were impressed by her knowledge, people skills, and courtesy to others. I just happened to be the one who created the group. I'm no FB guru; often learn as I go.

    DETAILS: The group is currently open to the Public. Transparency and truth are key. This is NOT a forum to discuss any other of the myriad issues that surround Sun City this is for Karen. Here is the link:
    Poison_Ivy likes this.
  2. Poison_Ivy

    Poison_Ivy Member

  3. suncityjack

    suncityjack Member

    Great idea. However, I for one am not on Facebook, so hope you will also post things here and on Nextdoor.
  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Not to worry scj. This site will remain steadfast in our support for Karen and a return to the days when Sun City residents (the owners) had a voice in their community.

    BTW, signed up for the facebook group, just waiting approval. Hope the fact i am in the witness protection plan doesn't slow down my approval.
  5. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I would hope anyone following the McAdam debacle join the Facebook page...including management and board members. Oh wait, you would need to use your real name to join. Oopsie.
    Poison_Ivy likes this.
  6. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Member

    Over 130 of you have read about the Facebook group, but the group only has 10 members. Please consider joining. However, since many are not on Facebook, excerpts from the page will be copied here.

    Karen met with a small group of supporters last week to give us her side of the story and to make suggestions on an approach going forward. In an email this week, she reiterated, "It is very important to me that we conduct ourselves with decorum; come what may, we want to come away from this matter able to hold our heads high, don’t we?" Doesn't that just sound like Karen?!

    We need people to show up in her support at the Monday, September 13 Board meeting at 9 a.m. at the Sundial Auditorium. You will have a chance to sign up to speak in the Members Comment Section. We are allowed three (3) minutes.

    If speaking isn't your "thing," just come for Karen. Do you have your question ready to ask?
  7. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Don't do any social media other than here. I've got a conflicting appointment on 9/13 that can't be changed so I'll have to watch the video if/when it's posted.
  8. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I'm crushed aggie, the one chance we have to try and restore sanity to Sun City and you are going to watch the video. Unless it's a meeting with the pope, cancel it and get your butt in the room. If absolutely not possible, as least send you worse half :).
  9. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    I have a feeling that the meeting will not be a pleasant function. My wonderful other half may attend but he'll have to bring along his own comfy chair and snacks as I think it will be a long one. :D
  10. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    I have a feeling that the board meeting may start out ugly and then be terminated quickly as the board will cite some bylaw or articles of incorporation that will allow them to prematurely stop the board meeting.

    As to Sue Wilson's letter to the independent (and I know I will get a lot of flac on this) she is right in that the members DO NOT have the full story. If and until the full story is communicated to the members, the board can expect push back from the members. Some have alluded to talks with Karen, but we have not heard her side of the story. We will probably never hear the full story from the board. At this point, Karen is no longer on the board and I would think she is free to express her feelings and thoughts on her dismissal. By Sue Wilson's own words, executive sessions are secret and whatever occurred there will never be revealed Unless a board member anonymously posts this information.

    Just my opinion, but executive sessions should be monitored and TAPED.

    The board serves the MEMBERS and the members deserve the full and complete story of any executive session.
  11. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Member

    *********PLEASE READ**********Everyone - It's so gratifying to see how many are requesting to become members of this support group. However, I confess to NOT stipulating that this group is for SUN CITY RESIDENTS. I had assumed that those requesting would be; however, on many of your requests, I see that you are from other states. Now, before you admonish me with "we're snow birds and that's my other state of residence," I had set the group up with the instructions that you MUST answer three questions. Again, I assumed this would help determine if you lived in Sun City because you should be able to answer those questions. Perhaps my bad. PLEASE - if you've applied and not been approved, it's most likely because I am not sure where you live. While we want to pack the hall with folks on Monday, September 13 at 9 a.m. at the Sundial Auditorium, they will need to be Sun City residents. Please re-apply and consider answering the questions.
  12. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    It is interesting to see so many people who do not use Facebook. Of course the other challenge is lots of people are nervous about revealing their identity to join a group. I understand all of the concerns and will simply encourage you, if nothing else, show up on Monday Sept 13 at the Sun Dial Auditorium at 9 am. You don't need to speak at the mic, you don't need to be boisterous or even angry. You do deserve to hear for yourselves and to see how dysfunctional the board is.

    Easy to write something foolish in the newspaper that claims there's "way more to the story," which in reality means nothing. Those of you who know Karen, know she is a serious, competent individual who simply believes in doing the right thing. On the other had is the board who sits atop the stage, glaring down and asking, "why don't you trust us?" Duh...because the next freaking day as she was leaving for Germany you fired her and still haven't told her why?

    I have lived in Sun City for coming up on 20 years. I have had the pleasure of volunteering for too many organizations to list. My favorite is the Del Webb Sun Cities Museum and that is because our history is so unique, so special. We were successful, not because of a handful of board members and the management staff, but because the community embraced the concept of ownership and self-governance. This is absolutely the first time in all of those years we have an opportunity to rebuild that sense of community, that sense of ownership.
  13. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Member

    Please - if and when you refer your friends to this group on Facebook, please let them know that there are three questions to answer. Also, please have them give their email address. They should live in Sun City. Thanks. I've got lots of people pending for approval to the group but need the questions answered. Thanks!
  14. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Member

    Eight new members in 1 day!!! The Sun City Independent is out, the front page headline screams, "Residents want McAdam back on Board," my Letter to the Editor was posted, "“I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!” under REMOVAL: Become active to reverse Board decision," the agenda is out for September 13th with blatant, glaring Bylaw additions - one by Hoffer, one by Schroeder - that reek of pettiness and a desire to control the Members even more -- and what are you doing??

    Please consider signing up for the "Supporters of Karen McAdam" Facebook group. We want your EMAIL address so that we have a way to communicate with all the Members of Sun City who are livid over what is taking place. (It will not be used inappropriately; after all, I live here, too!)

    To my knowledge, there is no way to keep track of each other; no homeowner directory. (If there is, please share with me.) The Board has many means of communicating to the Members - especially Blast emails; we have none. We need one!! If you are sitting in your home, reading “The bastards did it!!!” or “Building a sense of community, NOT” and wanting to get involved but don’t know how – sign up for the FB group.

    If you are not on FB and want to get involved, please feel free to email me @ I’m not sure if posting my information is allowed, but there it is. I’m not sure that posting my email on here is a good idea, but I did.

    (And if you’re one of the 100 or so who did sign up for the FB group but forgot to give me your email, please send it to me at the above address. Thanks!)
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  15. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Onedayatatime, you inspire me and make me feel like there is hope. Nicely done.
    OneDayAtATime likes this.
  16. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Member

    With Karen's permission and at her request, please read her letter of 6/22 to her fellow Board members. She feels that it is important for the community to know about it, "partially because it offers proof that I was arguing from the perspective of the good of the Corporation (and not any perceived self-benefit)" ....

    Dear colleagues,
    As anxious as we all are to get the Mountain View project moving forward, I am very concerned about the potential negative fall-out of pushing forward Board approval of the MV Option 2 Master Plan without first fulfilling our obligation to base our decision-making on thorough and accurate information.

    In numerous conversations over the last week, a disconnect has become obvious among various stakeholders in this decision-making process. I would like to urge us to place a temporary hold on the approval process so as to allow ourselves to gain information that is currently lacking. I know this is a tough ask, as none of us wants to interrupt the momentum the project has developed, but I do fear that haste at this point would lead to long-lasting negative consequences.

    Specifically, I would recommend that the RCSC Board and the Board of the Pickleball Club meet, not to conduct business but simply to gather and exchange information. We mustn’t underestimate the potential benefit that would come from such an exchange. As a matter of fact, failing to do so would, I believe, severely endanger the vitality of the Corporation as well as the good will of our moral ownership, which we should at all times strive to maintain to the highest degree possible.

    Broadly speaking, here are a few things that I think should be addressed:

    • The membership of the Pickleball Club, and its officers in particular, are passionate about their sport, yes, but they are also generally quite reasonable and anxious for those making decisions that impact the future of pickleball in Sun City to do so from a well-informed perspective.

    • We ought to be willing to concede that their concern that pickleball may be eliminated from the MV project is not completely unfounded. The communication roll-out of Option 2 was indeed unfortunate, and contrary to accusations that have been made, led quite rationally to certain rather obvious conclusions. We may now as a Board contest those conclusions, but please let’s not malign our fellow RCSC members by accusing them of rumor-mongering.

    • While verbal assurances have been given that during an unavoidable disruption in PB play solutions for such disruption would be sought, it is not apparent that many (decent) options exist. We do not own excess desert acreage that can simply be converted to PB courts. Several other options have been considered (Sun Bowl parking lot, Lakeview tennis courts, or turning Marinette into a PB “Center of Excellence”, for instance) but many factors speak against those options (it would do us all good to hear those options discussed!), especially if they are only “place-holders” for a future, “permanent” option. We need to hear the pros and cons of all options openly discussed.

    • Find out what makes PB a supremely social sport. You cannot, for instance, make an informed decision about the future of pickleball without understanding some of the unique features of the sport. Learn the difference between organized club activities and Open Play and what the interplay between the two is (I can’t think of another sport in SC that shares this feature).

    • Data. I am a big fan of making sure that our decision-making is undergirded by solid facts. The number that keeps getting thrown at PB is the average 34% utilization number. Let’s talk about that; not even Dale is willing to say that this low utilization figure portends justification for reducing court availability. If we are so sold on “data”, let’s gather more: 1) how often various other venues with similar utilization numbers (mini-golf, for example) see participants waiting one, two, or three cycles in order to access facilities; 2) how frequently current facilities/equipment designed to accommodate wheelchair-bound club members are actually used (before we commit a large footprint of scarce land to an ADA-compliant mini-golf course); 3) what surrounding communities are doing to accommodate the nationwide surge in pickleball play.

    • Regarding the latter (some of you have heard this already, please pardon the repetition):
    [​IMG] Pebble Creek, a Robson community of 6100 homes in Goodyear (less than one-fourth the size of Sun City), has just received city approval for the construction of 16 additional courts to the 20 they currently have (new total 36).
    [​IMG] Sun City West, at over 10,000 fewer residents than Sun City, is seeking the construction of ca.16 additional courts to the 18 + 8 they currently have, for a total of 40 (or more) courts. As our closest “relative”, we should all have a look at the 7-page analysis of court need presented in the hyperlink.
    [​IMG] Westbrook Village, at < 7,000 residents, has 16 PB courts, I have been told (unfortunately couldn’t verify this number). Proportional to our population, that’d mean 60+ courts.
    [​IMG] Sun City Grand, with 20,000 residents, has 22 PB courts and 1410 PB Club members, growth trend ongoing.

    • Timing. I think you will find that the PB Club is willing to negotiate a compromise solution regarding an initial reduction in court availability IF there are appropriate assurances that the disruption will not drag on and on (let’s talk about how long we would be comfortable reducing court availability by 25%), and if a plan is committed to that leaves the club poised to handle ongoing growth.

    • Marketing. Ask Dave Breault, PB Club President, what kind of inquiries he receives (and frequency thereof) regarding PB from prospective home buyers (PB aficionados seem much more likely to contact the PB Club directly than to contact the Visitors’ Center). Ask about the marketing value of national tournament play at Marinette, and the increasingly demanding requirements of the USAPA in terms of host court availability.

    • Forward thinking. More than any other body, the Board is tasked to think strategically and long-term. Dividing the MV project up into phases is not unreasonable, but pushing a decision about the disposition of Phase III acreage out several years may be, given the expectations about what should willingly be forgone in the interim. How is this for heresy: Consider the possibility of beginning with Phase III. It would likely be the least expensive phase of the project; pool and fitness users losing the pool and the fitness area would have multiple alternatives close by, and no one is hung out to dry. The waiting burden would become a shared burden.

    • Reputation. Both the RCSC Board and RCSC Management stand to take a repetitional hit if we doggedly pursue the MV Master Plan approval without taking the time to inform ourselves properly.

    • Finally, what other demographic in Sun City is told that it represents just a small sliver of the total SC population and thus cannot expect to have adequate facilities “just for them”? Yes, 700 members out of 37,000 residents is a small percentage, but I don’t believe we treat any other group in our town that way.

    Can I request a response from each of you prior to Thursday’s meeting?

    Thanks for reading this far,

  17. CMartinez

    CMartinez Active Member

    This is an amazing letter, brought from a place of honesty and integrity, with amazing information available to the board members. It is truly shameful that such an honest assessment of a pending situation could cost you your position on the board of directors. It opens my eyes has to how loathsome the current board is, and how deplorable their actions are. No one except Karen needs a truthful explanation as to why she was fired. I for one, after reading this message, am perfectly clear that a person of impeccable morals and high standards will not be tolerated by the current "sitting board members" as they are not up to the task of being honorable in their actions.

    Karen, I wish you only the best in your pursuit of seeking justice in regards to the current board. Do know the actions against you are not only illegal, but as evidenced by their dismal performance as a group, not of a position of honor, truthfulness, and a disgrace to their fiduciary duty as board members. I truly hope you have the will and desire to pursue additional action against them, and you have my support it total.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
    OneDayAtATime likes this.
  18. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Well said Carole. Karen is well versed and willing to go beyond what other board members are willing to do. There's little doubt it made them uncomfortable and made them look less than credible. The nonsense they are trying to pass off to justify it is pathetic at best. I had a very simple philosophy that i shared with the gm when we would argue about an interactive website: If you can't rationally explain what and why you are doing something, there's a good chance you shouldn't be doing it. Obviously she didn't buy my argument.
    CMartinez likes this.
  19. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Member

    If the Board passes the two motions ** on the agenda for Monday, we Members stand to lose our one and only chance to voice our opinions and make them count.


    Monday, September 13 at 9 a.m. at the Sundial Auditorium

    Wear blue to support Karen!

    Compose your own question/statement, or ask me for one.

    If you plan to speak to the motions, you must sign up before the meeting starts.

    If you plan to speak under Member Comments, there is no need to sign up.

    **Director Hoffer: I move to amend the Corporate Bylaws…..An annual meeting of the Members shall be held each year except in the case where an act of God or other limiting circumstance, such as a pandemic, prevents the ability to conduct a meeting.

    **Director Schroeder: I move to amend the Corporate Bylaws as follows: Two instances of “Robert’s Rules of Order shall may govern procedure at all meetings of the Corporation” ……. and one “The Secretary shall may adhere to the duties of the Secretary as outline in Robert’s Rules of Order …..

    FYI: In case you haven’t seen the agenda, there is also a request for the approval of the final budget to replace the Lakes East/West Golf and Grounds Maintenance buildings at a cost of $3,948,872 by General Manager Bill Cook. You read that right – more than 3 million dollars. And, WE HAVE NO SAY IN THIS MATTER!
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
  20. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    The time for talking and writing is nearly over. The meeting tomorrow right is front of us and either people show up or they don't. The board tried to mollify both the pickleball and lawn bowling clubs with their meeting last week. Ultimately all clubs understand the RCSC holds all the cards and any space they get is through the goodness of management. Those meetings should have been held moths ago, long before any Mountainview proposal hit the table. They only happened because they didn't want more angry people showing up. In time, the lawn bowlers will end up getting screwed, but for now they they see the RCSC dangling some mythical green in front of them years down the road.

    The real angst stems from what they did to Karen McAdam and Barbara Brehm. We elected them, they fired them. Karen tried to get the board to understand reducing the number of pickleball courts by 7 when the community is already under-served was a mistake. Barbara dared to question accounting practices. Both of them were actually doing the job they were elected to do. Sadly, over the years the board has simply become a rubber stamp for management and the gm.

    A couple of years back, after spending millions of dollars on golf course rebuilds, i went to a member exchange and questioned president Dan Schroeder about investing in the conversion to desert landscaping on a couple of our golf courses. It was spendy, something to the tune of $800,000 to a million dollars. He explained it was the right thing to do for Sun City given what would be coming with the reduction of water to our courses.

    He, along with several others on the board who were golfers, voted to spend that money. I point this out because their vote wasn't a conflict of interest, they were doing so because they felt it was in the best interest of Sun City. Exactly what Karen McAdam did/was trying to do.

    In Barbara's case, when i got on the board i walked into the gm's office and said bluntly; "i've never seen anyone do budgets like you do." I told her i was okay with it as long as she kept the costs down for residents. In retrospect, i was in error. Boards are elected to insure everything is done correctly. Barbara had a background in property management and when she saw anomalies, she simply asked other board members legitimate questions. Duh.

    Point here is this board has functioned in a way that was off kilter at best. What is even worse, there is no remorse. They act as if they have the right to do what ever they want. Tomorrow we will see if that is the case.
    OneDayAtATime likes this.

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