So, Rucco...

You're going to love the lake setting C. One of the things we always take note of when walking the girls around 9 pm is when we go past the golf course, the temps feel like they drop a good 10 degrees. Between the water in the ponds, the watering of the grass and the wide open spaces, it's just plain cooler.

The lake affect has to be even more dramatic. As much as I love our house and what we have done to it, I could see buying a home on the lake. The one drawback is with the girls we need/want high fences and lake properties have specific rules regarding fence heights and obstructing your neighbors views.

 

I have a fence on both sides of neighbors and it's about 5 feet tall. They are open iron fences though, not solid. I read through through all the rules and I don't see anything about fence heights. Maybe I need to look again, but I do see several tall fences around. The rules are about the lake itself and the wall and liner, boating, fishing rules. I have not read any rules about appearance of yards but I'll look again.

 

I just looked again. If there is anything on fences I sure can't find it. You said it was very specific...where did you see it?

 

Cynthia- Go to www.dawnlake.com and check out "CC&Rs - Sun City" number 9. There are separate CC&Rs for the lake and the residences surrounding it.

 

Good job aggie. I had to go digging. I knew the golf courses had their own restrictions, but had guessed the lakes would have drafted it in their own CC&R's. Rather than doing that, they took the easy way out and just added the clause regarding the community CC&R's, which includes fence heights on the lakes and the golf courses.

 

I'm not sure what they mean then because the lake has many house with fences. Some at least 4 feet from where I can see in my yard, including my own, right up to the lake and some span the lake. But I didn't see any closed types, all open. Look at this fence and the one next to it. BTW, this is a way cool house and the front is equally unique...but you wouldn't know the front by looking at the back.

 

In fact it looked to me from my backyard that fences are the norm rather than the exception. Guess its not enforced.

 

Sorry if it sounds like we are talking in tongues here. For those of you unfamiliar with Sun City CC&R's they are different for homes that sit on the lakes and golf courses when it comes to fencing (out buildings as well, but let's not confuse that already confusing matter). Its not that you can't have fences (as seen by the property Cynthia listed; its that they are some restrictions about of what type and height and where it is on the property itself.

The intent is so you cannot impede another owners view of the lake from their house. Hence both the heights and materials are spelled out. Here's the actual relative language from the Sun City CC&R's, #9 (this specifically for the lakes): "No wall or fence of any nature shall be built, erected, placed or permitted to remain on lots bordering a lake at heights of greater than three (3) feet within twenty-five (25) feet of the rear property line. Landscaping shall be planned for lots bordering a lake so as avoid undue obstruction of the view of the lake from said lots. No tree, shrubs, hedge, wall or rail shall be placed or maintained within the lake easement shown and designated on the recorded plat of the property here-in described."

Clearly the fences you see are within the 3 foot limit. I especially like the home you showed C; truly a cool looking property and the fence is the perfect example of what you may do. Golf courses have more flexibility: They can go up to 6 feet on the back lot line but they but must meet the stated materials. The side lot line is also an issue and must not block the neighbors view from their house.

My issue on the lake is simple: I need a 6 foot block fence so the dogs don't go crazy every time a boater goes by. It was bad enough in our current house; we had a 6 foot wall on the side, but a 4 foot high back wall. Every time someone walked by (about a 1000 times a day) the girls would go crazy (if they weren't sleeping). Our neighbor loved the short wall because she wanted to talk to the girls when she went out back. When she sold we got our new neighbor to sign an agreement to allow us to cap off the back wall at 6 feet. We did the painting on both sides and we all got piece and quiet.

Hope that helps. I know lots of folks get a stack of papers at closing and the CC&R's is one of them. Please don't just stick it a pile, read it and ask questions. While serving on the SCHOA Board there were too many stories of people who never read them and found out the hard way. They are about as simple to follow as you can get, but for folks who never had them before, they tend to think of the property as their home and they can do what they want.

 

With all due respect, they are not all clearly 3 foot fences. Some of them are, but I've stood next to many that are taller. Mine are almost 5 feet tall and my neighbors are 4 feet. I'm not saying the place would work for you and your dogs, I'm just saying many fences there are over 3 feet.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I don't spend any time on Dawn Lake other than the other day when i was a friends and hers was in the 3 foot range. In that it's not my concern, i'm not even sure if the CC&R's posted on the Dawn Lake website are current. They were restated in 1999 and if you go to the SCHOA site you can see if they are identical to the ones posted on the dawn Lake site.

If there is some history regarding the fences you can find it in the minutes. Sorry about trying to help. You can take it from here.

 

Mea Culpa

Sorry for stealing your thread Gene/Rusco. But we've just about run the course on this one anyway. Congrats to R for his efforts and for finding (at least for now) his new first choice, Sun City Grand. I think I can speak for all of us, we wish him all the best no matter where he chooses.

Which is kind of the perfect segue into my mea culpa. I tend to be overbearing to the point where other posters may not like it. Sorry, but it's who I am and how I do this kind of stuff. Message boards and forums are really not conducive to "pushy" behavior; it's easy for readers to read more into responses than are intended. I know I have been guilty of it for the 12 or 13 years I've been posting on them. I've watched online communities break down on the smallest of posts. Of course there's the other kind where being a jackass is a way of life and infighting is why the board exists.

Obviously TOSC is more laid back than almost any other I have been on. We stay away from the more incendiary topics for the most part. That's a good thing for me because I used to love the fight; the battle of whit and words was something that brought me back to how I lived my work life. I feasted on the head stuff: Briggs-Myers, Personality Profile, Situational Leadership were all components we tried to teach both staff and stewards. Most people found it too far out there.

As usual, I wander down far removed paths. I find this site to be an educational tool where the silly battles of being right or wrong are immaterial. This site to me is simply about helping people understand Sun City. I don't claim to be an expert, but I do have a good an understanding about the community. And if I don't know, I have the resources to try and find out. Add that to an A type personality and I sometimes step on toes.

The above thread as we moved into the Dawn lake discussion is the perfect example. I know very little about Dawn Lake. When the questions started, I went to the museum and read all of the files we have there (really, not very much). I read their website for a couple of hours and found things I didn't know in the minutes of their meetings. But even with that, there's plenty of holes to fill.

That said, while serving 3 years on the SCHOA board and as head of the Compliance Committee my last year, I had the opportunity to deal with the CC&R's more than most. And while many of the issues regarding fences were on golf courses, I knew the lakes had some similarities. When the question came up, I went to both Dawn Lake and the SCHOA CC&R's to find answers. That certainly doesn't mean they are enforced, though for them to have any value, there need be at least an effort or they become meaningless.

So last night after our exchange I drove around Dawn Lake looking at the little I could see. Let's start with the premise there's nothing wrong with 5 or 6 foot wall as long as they are beyond the magic 25 foot set-back. Lots of lake properties have varying wall heights but the ones I could see higher than 4 feet all had step-downs. That is a gradual reduction in height as they got nearer the lake. In some cases they had incorporated steel rod fencing above the concrete or stucco walls, which has become popular on golf courses because it doesn't impede the neighbors view of the golf course or in this case the lake.

Obviously this was an imperfect science and there may be wall height violations on Dawn Lake properties, but given the minutes I read it sounded like the officers of the lake association have done a good job of enforcement. It's not my business, other than the fact this community is self-governed and once we fail to take ownership and let owners do whatever they want, we run the risk of losing a structure that has served us well.

The one thing I learned early on in my work career was the more I did, the more I could and would be criticized about/for. It just goes with the territory. While I don't come near some have with the number of posts on here, my guess is my word count is off the charts. I try and use this site as a resource to help people understand the community better. I'll be the first to admit some of my postings may be wrong, and if I am, if pointed out I will try and get the facts to the best of my ability.

So sorry if I stepped on toes; been doing it all my life, though at this stage it's seldom intentional.

Now back to our regular scheduled programing.