RIP..board/member exchange.

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Enquirer

    Enquirer Member

    Where can I find the video of the 2018 CandidTe forums?

    If I remember it right, Kat Fimmel had IT as one of her platform items. I am rememberIng that Rich Hoffer tagged on to her comments that he thought this was an important issue.

    As many times as she has brought this up before the Board, Hoffer never expressed any support, neither did anyone else (publically, which means, to my knowledge).

    I have long supported modernizing the community’s IT, and I would like to see some hi-speed wi-fi throughout the community, as well.

    I am grateful for the change in attitude. I hope something can actually be accomplished.

    Anyone know where it came from?
     
  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Candidate forums only go back to 2019 on their youtube channel E. In 2018 there were two candidates who pushed for the need for Sun City to get on board the IT train. Kat and Jill both understood we were well behind the curve and both ran campaigns aimed on enhancing technology across the board. Neither were elected as once again the "good old boys" fairly well dictated outcomes. I'll spare you the story about the club members bragging about who they were electing, but is is one of the problems with low voter turnouts.

    Dale has been aggressively pushing the need for decisions to be made using data. That information can only be derived with good technology and not numbers clubs claim. Sorry but the game has been played by too many for too long. While still on the long range planning committee Dale and Rich were constantly in disagreement. Now that she is running it, her push is pretty apparent. And, Rich still looks more like an obstructionist than actually wanting to get things done. Don't for one minute think the decision to get rid of collecting club numbers was driven by the board.

    Once the GM leaves, the next one needs to understand the importance of bringing our technology into this century, not 15 years behind. Sadly, until she leaves don't look for much to change.
     
  3. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    BP - It appears to me that Rich has his own agenda rather than being concerned with what the community wants and needs. Having the question of IT on the LRPC will likely push IT infrastructure and modernization far into the future similar to the softball club building updates.

    I've heard several times on this forum "when the GM leaves". What makes everyone think the GM is leaving? Why would she want to leave when she's in control of all that goes on in Sun City?

    It is not the GM that needs to understand the importance of bringing our technology into this century. As she said at the last meeting it is not up to her to take on this task unless it comes from the BOD. Updating Sun City IT will be a costly project. It must be done over completely and not done piecemeal like adding bandwidth to our existing infrastructure. A great amount of information and planning must be done to bring IT forward with the ability to stay current into the future. I do not believe our current IT department is up to the task. We are so far behind in Tech that it will take lots of money and talent just to get us current. If IT information and data collection continues to languish in the LRPC most of us will never she any change at all. Adding bandwidth, WIFI and access points will not get the job done.
     
  4. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    I am fairly in tune with a large number of residents, most of whom can barely spell IT. But I have little insight into the factual knowledge the GM and the BOD have regarding what "IT" actually encompasses. From discussions here I'm fearing the GM/BOD think wifi alone is the major issue. If that is true then nothing will get done until they're educated.
     
  5. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    You guys sent me searching, but before i go there, let me refresh your collective memories on past board elections. Virtually every candidate runs on the premise of more "transparency." No question, an admirable trait, but once they get elected, it becomes more important to fall in line. As we chat here about IT, i can prattle on about what we proposed, but who knows if it's true or i am just making it up? I know; and in this case, let me show you.

    I told you we submitted in the spring of 2019 an extensive report on Gen X buyers. Don't recall but it was some 15 or 20 pages long. In June of that year, we realized any hope of achieving the plan we had submitted to the board hinged on the immediate need to get our technology up to speed. We presented the proposal below to the chair and co-chair the end of July. They accepted it and thanked us for our work. When we returned after the summer break, and management had a chance to see it, we were told it was dead on arrival. There was no way the board would act on it. It's what prompted me to quit.

    For your enjoyment, here is what we proposed:
    On Monday July 29, members from the sub-committee for the long range planning
    committee met to discuss objective criteria for future recommendations to the board
    of directors. We had established a statement on vision and a list of criteria to be
    considered (both are available for your review).

    After an interesting discussion, we found ourselves in a quandary. Virtually
    everything we discussed came back to data gathering and tracking. As we talked, it
    became apparent, moving forward centered on one overriding theme. “We simply
    must move into an era where technology drives our decision making process.”

    In light of that, we are asking the long range planning committee to recommend the
    following to the RCSC board: “The board shall direct the management team to secure a minimum of three bids from
    technology companies. Their request for proposal (RFP) shall include an assessment
    of upgrades to every aspect of technological improvements currently available.”

    Rather than relying on non-experts, we believe by contracting out we will know better
    what we can do in the following areas and the related costs. We would like the RFP to
    include recommendations on but not limited to:
    1. Enhanced parking lot and amenity/facility security.
    2. Provide off the shelf hardware and software that can be easily upgraded over
    the anticipated 15 year life of these products.
    3. Find programs that will integrate data collected between clubs and the RCSC
    that will provide utilization numbers for all venues. Reports generated by the
    data collection should be available to all RCSC members, committees, board and
    management. Club membership would be maintained by each club.
    4. Access to club spaces.
    5. Wi-Fi capabilities that exceed current needs, that can be incrementally
    implemented.
    6. We anticipate that the Rec. card would be the vehicle to provide access
    utilization numbers and have the ability to provide access and count depending on
    the event and membership. This would be controlled by an automated program
    for scheduled activities. We would also anticipate a means for counting
    non-members to open venues such as craft fairs.

    Because of the urgent need for this system we anticipate that all requests be returned
    by the end of 2019. The long range planning committee also wishes to help with the
    review of the RFP’s so as to assure that the data collection will meet their needs.

    I bring up transparency because who among you ever saw this? I rest my freaking case.
     
  6. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Well BP - I never saw that and I'm sure no else has either. The stumbling block here in my opinion is Rich and maybe even the board president. Rich has a hidden agenda and does not want data to show where are are wasting money on a daily basis because of lack of data. Maybe with new board members coming in the board can grow a pair and and get something done, but I say again it will take years before our IT infrastructure, software, and hardware is even close to being current. Another BIG stumbling block is MONEY. Everything comes down to money. Upgrading our IT in all aspects WILL be costly. Adding WIFI capability is nothing more than a band aid. If people are clamoring for more wifi so they don't have to invest in internet service, to me that is totally unacceptable. Wifi should be available at RCSC facilities to enhance peoples usage of the internet, not be their only presence.

    RFP's are great, but they must be from National companies with a track record of excellence and achieving great results for their customers. The LRPC or a subset of that group should be convened to layout the wants and needs of IT updates. Mr Ege and Dale Lehrer would be great candidates to lead that effort having had experience with data tracking and reporting.

    All board candidates should be asked their position on IT infrastructure, software, and hardware upgrades to bring us into the 21st century. If they cannot or will not pledge their full support on these efforts they should not be voted for.

    What does everyone believe is driving the preventative measures for Covid?
     
  7. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Look at the video of the last Board meeting from 1.24 to 1.27 and listen very carefully to what the GM says. From what I hear, she is NOT opposed to electronic data collection - the BOD is.
     
  8. Enquirer

    Enquirer Member

    BP: Thanks for the info, this is what I was looking to find in the videos.

    No matter how long or hard the journey, it will never end if we don’t take the first step, and the implications will clearly have a positive impact on our community members, equally important is that it will make Sun City more viable in the marketplace.

    So, yes, it will have a financial impact now, but those costs will be returned through, and be the foundation of, our future success as a community.
     
  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Carole and i were on the board when they quit getting numbers from clubs. There was a stink because the long range planning committee (before they disbanded it) asked the assistant general manager to provide the data so they could make recommendations based on usage. The GM felt it was an unreasonable request and the board agreed. That is how virtually every change in rules/regulations and by-laws happen. The GM identifies a need and the board goes along with it. Guess then it's not her issue eh?

    The reality was we knew the numbers we were seeing were often times padded. Clubs long ago figured it out; the key to keeping dedicated space or getting new space is reliant on showing growing attendance or having a spouse or friend join a club for $5 or $10 dollars and make it look like you are growing the size of your club. Make no mistake, board members know that as well. One can only hope they don't actively play that game. Sadly, sometimes they do.

    The GM has been slow to react to almost anything technology driven. Yes we have solar, but the problems with it have been abundant. Yes we have Wifi, but in the 10 plus years it has been anything but stellar. Yes we decided to sell show tickets on line at a ridiculous up-charge for online purchases, but that went away because they couldn't figure how to make it work. Yes we have online voting, but how many use it? How easy is it to access? Hell, it took nearly 10 years to convince them to record the meetings so people could watch it from home. Slow would be a kind assessment of how they function.

    I agree 100% SCR, if board candidates this year aren't technology supportive, they shouldn't get the vote. Unfortunately, we know the PIF allocations are already set and that's before the song and dance we will be getting about the need to address the coming water reductions for golf courses. Look for that to be another diversion from the plan to address the facility side and shovel more money at the golf side. BTW, our argument to address Sun City's technology needs was to pay for it from PIF; and to do it in a strategic and all encompassing way. Then when Gen X started buying here and they were looking for the "next big thing" we would be ready for them. Guess Rich missed that aspect of our proposal.
     
  10. BP, I am with you on the technology angle. As for PIF allocation I am not sure what to think but not in a bad way. An argument can be made on both sides, so here goes. We are all aware of the PIF requirements, cost more than $300k and a usable life of 15 years or more and this is where my legal brain kicks in. With technology changing so rapidly, what is installed in 2021 could be a dinosaur by 2024 and would need updating, hence it technically does not meet PIF threshold. The other side would be, the infrastructure required, i.e., wiring, storage, terminals, etc. actually would meet the threshold as only maintenance would be required such as software updates, patches, fixes, etc. I sort of advocated this in my later years on the Board by not much action, probably because I am not that technologically astute to make credible arguments.

    As for golf, my understanding is the big ticket items are complete, the only remaining items are some pro shot/ cart barn items. The only continuing cost is maintenance which rounds should support, but actually don’t. The bugaboo is the conveyance in perpetuity which RCSC must honor.

    There will always be decent amounts in PIF because Jan apparently over budgets in relation to the agreed contract price. She did it on the Grand property renovation by over $1million which now gives the disingenuous claim she brought the project in under budget. Accurate but not necessarily truthful.

    Might have gotten a bit off track here, but in spite of future projections, we can spend the necessary funds to provide state of the art technology.
     
  11. CMartinez

    CMartinez Well-Known Member

    How times have changed. When asking the GM for data back when, we were told it was to cumbersome for her people to have to spend valuable time and resources getting the data and processing the reports. It was about the same time the LRPC was disbanded and it became all golf all of the time. Even back then there was talk of tablets for the presidents to enroll members to keep track of activities and attendance. It went nowhere.

    Rich is a product of his generation. Microphone, manuscript, and a sound check and you are good to go. The real needs of FIOS, 5G wireless, hand help apps and downloadable data is the need for today and for the future. The hardware needs to be optimized for today's usage as well as what tomorrow's new apps will bring. It needs to be fast, easily accessible, and user friendly. It needs to be scalable to the capacity at which the data can grow and not limited to what is only foreseeable in the very near future. We have proof of what limited foresight can bring in the solar projects we have.

    Will this cost a few bucks, yes it will. The initial cash outlay may seem a lot at first, but with the right people keeping their eyes on the system and how to grow and maintain it, the costs become marginal over time. The data will not lie if entered and maintained in an honest way. Usage will be the first and foremost benefit, not only for clubs, but for golf as well. Getting real data feedback would be a true eye opener for all to see as to how we are spending our monies all the way around.

    So, now the BOD can direct the outreach of the GM. Let us hope there are some on the board who will see this as the opportunity it is and jump on this measure past haste
     
  12. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the responses gang. When we proposed that tech be covered by PIF, their argument was it may not meet the criteria. By then i knew i was short for their world of the LRPC so i didn't waste my time with the discussion. The simple truth was; some of it would have been, some not. We had no problem shelling out 5.5 million (a million more than we were told) to pay off the solar lease and it came from PIF. How about those inverters that need be replaced constantly? How about the panels under performing? Still a good investment, at least we think.

    Our proposal was simply to get our head around what our needs were to move into this century. As Carole pointed out so perfectly, the expectations of Gen X will be far removed from how most of us old farts think, want and need. The whole idea was to understand what we could/should be doing. Paying for it was the next step...but if you can't get past the first one, the second one is immaterial. I suspect the next election will set the course for how and where we are headed. I wish i could agree with GdV, but there appears to be some underlying needs for golf and the questions regarding water usage that they know about but aren't talking much about. If and when that happens, watch as they quickly address those issues and forget about the rest of the communities needs.

    Finally, i wish i could get excited by the opening of the Grand Ave complex, but the truth is for what we are spending, we could have bought and remodeled The Lakes Club and resolved 50% of the challenges we will be facing in the next 10 years. It was so shortsighted it's painful to even try and comprehend.
     
  13. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    Any modernization/upgrade to our existing IT infrastructure/software/firmware/hardware will likely go well beyond 750,000. We are so far behind it will take years to catch up and during that time new tech will have obsoleted whatever we started with. There needs to be a group established to look into Vendors, upgrades, expectations, wants, and needs. For the immediate future it is best to forget where the money is going to come from. It is going to be a very costly undertaking. Don't know hat has been spent on Grand Ave thus far, but I am 100% sure that whatever numbers we are shown are the result of Creative Accounting. Al we get with Grand Ave is space for a few clubs that are the only recipients of whatever the final cost of this debacle. IT upgrades and modernization will benefit the entire community. The gen x,y,z's whatever you want to label them will expect more current technology.

    If that cannot be delivered in a timely manner Sun City will begin to languish.

    As far as I am concerned, THE ball is in the BOD's court having heard the GM specifically say so.

    Good luck to all prospective new board member candidates.
     
  14. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    This is a perfect segue into my frustration with how the RCSC has done long range planning since passing the PIF in 1999. Rather than looking at the big picture long range plan, we have done every thing piecemeal. When you know you have massive amounts of money to work with, how much more effective can you/would you be if you constructed a cohesive approach to amenities and golf replacement?

    Think about it in these terms. The chair asked the long range planning committee to analyze Generation X and make suggestions for the board to consider. Good so far? We did that and one of the largest short comings was regarding technology. My wild ass guess is we are talking between 5 and 10 million dollars to get us up to speed (dependent on how aggressive you want to get). First step was card readers and the infrastructure to support it. Second was camera's and security throughout the community, especially at centers, golf courses and other venues. Included was updating hardware and software to become more user friendly and integrated into how the community functions.

    We knew the cost would be big, we have no idea how big. Seems to me as you build a plan into the future you would want to know. Seems to me you would want community input as to what is important to them. Information simply allows you to structure your plan rather than flying by the seat of your pants doing whatever project suits the fancy of the board and the GM.

    Shame on me for being so freaking logical eh?
     
  15. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    At this point in time, anything IT related does not belong in the LRPC. Just the name says any updates to IT are at least 3 to 6 years in the future.
    A special committee should be appointed to recommend wants and neds for IT updating to bring us into the 21st century. We are currently languishing in the 20th century.
    Adding wifi capacity is just a band aid. It will not propel us into the future of IT. Every single building and facility within the walls of Sun City must be upgraded to support the future needs of IT.
    Software and hardware must be upgraded and be future proof. Backup systems must be in place from day one of any IT upgrade.

    Putting this in the LRPC at this point is just delaying upgrades to the point that costs will be far more than any golf expenditures.

    Gen w, x, y z or whaetver you want to label them will want more and more from Sun Cities IT. Why should you even have to swipe a card to be certified as a legitimate paying member. NFC (near field communication) is becoming more the norm. Security would be greatly enhanced with a robust IT infrastructure. Ticket sales would be more user friendly. There are so many more areas where a modernized IT infrastructure would benefit the community as a whole as opposed to a few clubs getting new spaces.

    Unfortunately, if this issue remains in the LRPC most of us will never see any changes.
     
  16. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    It cannot and would not be up to the long range planning committee SCR to make those kinds of decisions. All committee's can do is recommend to the board their ideas regarding future expenditures. Committee's have no power and no real voice. They used to play an integral role but over the years less and less so. Think not? Watch what happens once management gets the Mountainview remodel in their purview. It was a damned interesting proposal, let's see how much of it becomes reality.

    We went down the IT path because any exercise in addressing the future could only happen when we had the data that was correct and not adjusted by clubs to meet their needs. Dale has been pushing that since she was appointed to the LRPC and several of us believed it was the right direction. After watching the vote at the last meeting by the board, it appears others aren't buying into the logic of decisions being data driven.
     

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