Let's Talk SAC...

There are actually 7 lawn bowl courts. 2 at Lakeview, 2 at Bell, 1 at MV, 1 at Oakmont, 1 at Fairway. Even at peak periods utilization does not go over 50% at MV.

 

Like many other outdoor sports, the times people play are concentrated during set periods of club play time. It's why i went to a fairly lengthy discussion regarding "down time" at any given venue or facility. It's almost at everything we do. That said, I'm not arguing for or against anything at this point. The challenges for closing the MV green is then the carpet that was supposed to be replaced at Fairway becomes part of the discussion. My best guess is that's probably 500K (btw, it was put in the budget the end of 2019). Or are you saying we should close both Fairway and MV? Those 5 greens (3 venues) will the snot beat out of them during the winter months.

The other problem with lawn bowling greens is heavy winter play concentrated on less greens will destroy them. Those 5 greens (3 venues) will get the snot beat out of them during the winter months. It's why we alternate play (other than during tournaments) to every other day. In fact there was a time (back when there were 8 greens, (they took the artificial out at Sundial) when play was every day at each. They started alternating days to give them a break. When i was on the RCSC board i was in favor of converting to all artificial but with Mrs. T writing checks to the tune of three quarters of a million dollars, that idea was dead in the water. In part, she did so to keep them real grass.

This idea that everything amenity we have should be busy all the time is fools logic. Life doesn't work that way. I'm all in on being smart with our decisions but we have a long way to go on data accumulation to get there. It's why we've been arguing for card readers at every club so we have sound data. By the way, we've been asking for at least a dozen years. Now that we know where our tech is, we at least know why we never even tried to go there.

The good news is MV will get done and then we can start looking longer term. The obvious target is Lakeview and that to me becomes a blank slate. It also puts everyone on notice, utilization matters. The center covers a huge piece of land and over the next 3, 4 or 5 years we should have become better at data collection and understanding the trends of Gen X that will be the home buyers (for the most part).

 

In response to your question on the lawn bowling I would say just close MV court. That is only if more parking and space is needed. Seems to me pickleball, lawn bowling, and the PAC should be able to co-exist at MV, especially if no gym is built at MV.

Hopefully more will be be known after the discussion with an architect (?) at next SAC meeting. And it would be nice to hear how much money is available. The last budget report I saw stated $31 million in the PIF. Another item to keep in mind is that when we build it adds to the assets of the community which I believe is at about $100 million now. Also in 10 years, at a conservative $6 million collected for PIF another $60 million. Seems quite positive to me!

Also appears the Lakeview liner replacement will not cost the $14 million many predicted. Still it is wise to be cautious with the finances.

 

I hope you're not saying what it sounds like you're saying? It sounds like you're a "GO" on whatever they want to do at Mountain View and we'll worry about the future later?

How about we start thinking about the future now and not just build another Taj Mahal Recreation Center? Sure, we can probably afford to support another Rec Center but that will just create more spaces and venues that will only be utilized, as you say, on a limited bases with probably more downtime than up?

There are so many expenses coming down the pike that we know about, and god only knows about the things we don't. But...lets just keep kicking the can down the road and not worry about becoming bloated until the next Rec Center needs renovation!

Sorry, but that's how I feel!

 

No on your blank check perception. Yes on my last sentence in previous statement. “Still it is wise to be cautious with the finances”. And as you have mentioned before— what is the money situation? I paraphrased on your statement.

 

Are you forgetting about the turf reduction? The South course has to get rid of over half the grass. 20 million wouldn't surprise me.

 

Good point. Again we must be cautious about the finances. My understanding is RCSC is experimenting with a drought resistant grass. Hope it works. Tough decisions will need to be made. Might you have a solution to suggest? Would love to hear ideas and solutions.

 

So the placeholder numbers were something just under 20 million dollars for the conversion mandated under the 2025. 5th water management plan from the state. Earlier this year the director of golf stated those costs could be 2 or 3 times more than that. The good news is the RCSC is working with a heartier turf that needs less water on 9 of the holes at the North course. No one is sure it will work, but it is worth the effort.

The problem of course is if this new turf works the costs will skyrocket as every golf course in AZ that has grass roughs rather than desert landscaping will be looking to buy it, rather than the more expensive and less popular rocks rimming their fairways. What's worse is, if it doesn't work, then we are back to the drawing board on the conversions. The deal is the state will not give us water for anything other than fairways, tees and greens.

This is one of those rare occasions where it's not anyone's fault. In fact, past board's did some of the heavy lifting by incorporating turf reduction on several of the courses. That was a good choice and helps immensely. The problem is we have so many courses left to do the cost of conversion, whether with water resistant turf or desert landscaping, is going to be expensive and will be coming out of PIF. The only question is how much? 10 million, 20 million, 30 million?

It's why when people start throwing out having all of this money available for MV, they also need to look down the road, but i will deal with that in my next comments.

 

Let me be very clear; i am a go on a Mountain View remodel. It's freaking shameful what the RCSC has let happen to that center. The fact of the matter is the problems should have been dealt with years ago. The center has been falling apart for years now. When we (the RCSC board) toured it in 2012, it was dumpy. Today it is far worse. It needs to get fixed quickly and as reasonably priced as it can be done.

Let me be even more clear; it doesn't matter what i think should be done. What we are finding out is; almost everyone has opinions. Most of those opinions are based either emotionally on what they want, or what they think they know. Based on what i have seen in person or read online, many of us know far less than we think we do. This past 3 months has been a learning experience where many of us are hearing and seeing things we didn't know.

From the day we moved here in 2003, i was in awe of our process of self-governance and member involvement. We were the most unique setting i had ever witnessed as the premise that members had a voice and an ownership stake in the outcomes was stunning. We were built differently; the community and the organizations that made us successful weren't afraid of those living here. In fact, they relied on them to make it all work.

It is in fact why i watched in horror, frustration and anger as it was dismantled piece by piece. When i ran for the board in 2011, i thought i could reverse those bad decisions. I was foolish in that assumption and quickly came to understand the destructive path we were on. For years i watched and wrote about what was happening and why, but it changed nothing. It took the arrogance of a board who felt a couple of them had the right to do whatever they wanted. Firing board members was the straw that broke the camels back. Thank God.

Which brings us back full circle to the Mountain View remodel. I trust the process of membership involvement. It's not a perfect science but it is an ongoing educational effort and exercise in communication, education and participation. The more people (members) know, the more they grow, the better the decision making becomes. Think not? Look at where they started and where they are now.

Only a fool would believe there are those who will not be happy with the outcome. They want what they want and that's all that matters. Once the dollars per square foot construction costs start hitting the table, once the membership becomes aware of the challenges facing the community because of the failed processes of the past 15 years, common sense and coming to grips what's doable and what's not will set in. Mountain View will get fixed, the board will address what needs be dealt with and most importantly, the membership will be better versed and understanding the critical role they will play as we move forward.

The days of letting the GM and a handful of board members make every decision hopefully are over. We'll see.

 

(Great RCSC Press Release about TifTuf, several photos)
Sun City’s North Golf Course Taking on a New Green
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
By Joelyn Higgins, Recreation Centers of Sun City Communications and Marketing coordinator

Fresh young grass “sprigs” took the place of golf balls flying over the fairways of North Golf Course, 12650 N. 107th Ave., June 28.

The application of the sprigs was part of RCSC’s continuing efforts to reduce water use on golf courses throughout the community.

Read MUCH more HERE

 

Hopefully grant money or other monies will be available to communities to help with these new requirements. I trust folks are looking for this possible help.

 

In 2022 while watching the Sun City West annual membership meeting online their director of golf mentioned they had secured something around 400k in grant money as they had begun their conversion to desert landscaping. I was impressed they had been that resourceful. Though it was a drop in the bucket to the costs, anything they could get made sense to me. If memory serves me, at one of our earlier meetings this spring, one of the management team reported Sun City had also received similar grants from the state this year.

It's one of the reasons i have paid attention to other age restricted communities. Only a fool doesn't learn from others, both good and bad.

 

Dang, just went back and reread the RCSC press release that eyesopen posted (love the background color even more than the first time i saw it). Here's what the article said regarding costs: "The majority of the funding for the summer projects came from environmental grants provided by the Visit Arizona Initiative aimed at supporting golf course water conservation efforts."

I've mentioned this before but this is just one of many articles that have been written over the past couple of months that is far more open and transparent. Kudos.

 

Bill Pearson is right. There is a lot of new information that is finally seeing daylight. I suggest the membership take President Fimmel's invitation to attend the Budget & Finance Committee meetings seriously and start attending. The committee is now meeting every other Wednesday at 1 p.m. at the Lakeview Boardroom.

While we have been under the illusion we are "flush with cash" because of the millions in carryforward, a healthy PIF, and the appearance of an excess each year, the truth is, the reality is far different when we look at what we have neglected - the real numbers in just delayed capital needs, NOT wants, are staggering. It is incumbent on all of us to begin to realize that we have to have a well thought out strategy to come together to fix this community. It will take compromises. But I believe when members see the big picture, understand the scope and what's at stake, solutions will be found. We have a huge talent pool of problem solvers, people with great ideas.

Priorities need to be established. We have to think about today AND tomorrow. What are the NextGens thinking? Some say the clubs will die, but will they? Will the NextGens finally have time to try their hands at something new - I have a friend, much younger, that retired and during Covid tried painting and fell in love with a new hobby she never tried. Do we really know? Some clubs, we've heard, have waiting lists. Fact or fiction? Data is necessary. I agree - every Center shouldn't, or can't, be a duplicate of every other. Or, what are the clubs of the future - I don't think we can ignore a gaming center - like it or not. But, those things are all to be determined. I'm sure DEVCO never imagined pickelball either.

There's a lot to do between now and the end of the year. This is a very busy summer for the staff, Board, and multiple committees. I hope the members are paying attention through this heatwave and understand the importance of their involvement in the upcoming meetings this fall.

 

Do you have the date of the next budget meeting?

 

The next Finance and Budget Committee meeting will be this Wednesday at 1 o'clock in the boardroom at Lakeview.

 

Tom...this Wednesday at 1 pm and every other week until September. Not sure how the Committee will proceed thereafter.

 

ok, thanks

 

We know what the Sun City Players WANT. How many seats do we NEED?

At the last Strategic Alternative Committee meeting, July 28, 2023, Committee member Bill Loslo, representing the Sun City Players, said he would like to see a PAC with 600 seats to accommodate not just his group but several of the other arts and performing clubs interested in using such a facility. “I would like 600 seats, but I could live with 400,” he said.

Sun City Players 2022 Usage Report
Total Audience attendance for all performances of:

• Curious Savage 1231
• Old Hams 1150

See full usage HERE

 

I think this Friday's (Aug. 25th) SAC meeting at 2 p.m. at the Grand Center will be very interesting. We should learn a lot from the architect.

And hopefully we'll learn how much money is really available.