The other day on Facebook, Sun City Chat Arizona, a site i help administrate, i got into an exchange with a member of the board from the Players Club. I responded to a comment he made regarding the Sun City Advocates apparently having an agenda that included promoting pickleball. There was nothing new from me regarding this topic. My position has always been the same, i'm not a pickleball player, my wife is, but my support for a second venue has always been regarding the number of courts there are in Sun City. Nothing more, nothing less. One of my curses is i follow age restricted communities, and have for years. I like to know and understand how we compare to our competition. One of the best sources has been 55Places. They started around 2005 and have been well received as one of the best online resources in the country for age restricted communities. Years back (2009), i took the two owners through the museum when they were visiting Sun City. We also went to a couple of the rec centers and they were shocked at how much updating had been done even back then. They were both salesmen for Del Webb Sun City Huntley in Illinois before they started this venture. They knew Sun City was the first, they didn't know how well it had aged. They often had articles regarding pickleball on their site. Like everywhere in the country, the internal squabbles over pickleball and tennis raged. Perhaps, nowhere worse than in senior communities where pickleball was growing and tennis was struggling. When the Mountain View plans first were rolled out, it appeared the outdoor sporting venues were safe. Then when the board shifted to Plan 2, the shit hit the fan. By repositioning the building, they could make better use of the footprint. It made sense, however the board elected to do three really dumb things in conjunction with the rollout of the plan at the first board meeting in June. Word had gotten out with this new plan, pickleball, lawn bowling and mini-golf at MV would all be closed. The P-ballers showed up in force and were adamant the board make a commitment to a second venue South of Grand Ave. They refused to do so. By the time the second meeting in June rolled around, the board decided to pass the motion after only two readings (the bylaws called for three). This was the most expensive project in Sun City's history, more than double the Fairway project. Much to the chagrin of a couple of the board members, the voted to bypass the third reading. This promoted Karen McAdam to become an outspoken critic which resulted in the board firing her as they went into the summer break. Suffice to say, it was an ugly summer all around. As far back as June, i understood what Karen was arguing. The board claimed she had a conflict of interest because she played pickleball. In reality, her argument was that by closing Mountain View, Sun City would become noncompetitive with neighboring senior retirement communities. We have 27 courts with MV; closing them would take us down to 20. It was during the summer of 2021 when 55Places released a summary report of pickleball courts in the Phoenix area. 5 senior communities all placed higher on a per capita basis than Sun City; and that was while MV was still open. Her point and the reason i supported her claims was she was spot on in her arguments. We needed a commitment from the board regarding a second venue. They flat out refused. A lot of water has run down stream since that time. Most of this was just a recap as we explore the Mountain View project in this thread. There's lots of history to unravel and in my opinion, worth the time and effort. Stay tuned.
Before we get too far down the road, let's look at the Performing Arts Theater and why it has been so long in the making. DEVCO moved north of Grand Ave in 1969. Once John Meeker turned Sun City around, the company gave the green light to stay the course and Phase 2 was born. The biggest portion of Sun City's population live between Grand Ave and Bell Road. The 5 years it took to sell it out flew by. It became the center of the community. With the hospital, two lakes, three golf courses and three rec centers, sales were red hot. The first center was Lakeview and was promoted as "resort style living." It was far nicer than anything built to date. Next came Sun Dial Rec Center and had a feature some residents grumbled about. The lament was about the need for an indoor pool. In fact, the biggest indoor pool in all of Arizona. Finally, the granddaddy of them all was the Bell Rec Center. More than two years in the making, it just kept getting bigger. Growing in size, stature and price was vintage John Meeker. He was always willing to spend money to make money. For those who don't know, each home DEVCO built had a price tag built in to the sale price to cover the cost of building the amenities. In phase 2, around the Bell Center, it came in at $250 per home. Unfortunately for Meeker and more so the Sun City Players and others, he went way over budget. Some claimed as much as two or three million dollars over. My good friend Ben Roloff has followed the development of the Bell Center in newspaper articles from the day. He has told me, DEVCO worked in concert (pun intended) with 16 different clubs that would have access to the Performing Arts Theater that was to be built where they now hold the Farmers Market every Thursday. In the end, the theater had to be shelved due to the cost overruns. All of that time spent to insure no one club or group would see the theater as theirs was lost. Details had been agreed to as far as utilization. It made perfect sense to work through the challenges, and Meeker when interviewed years later, lamented the fact it had to be scrapped. He went on to say, there was no doubt one day the fine residents of Sun City would get their Performing Arts Center. It was just a matter of time. Fast forward to today, we know are looking at finally getting that Theater at Mountain View. No question, it is long over due. Most of you know i served on the board (2012-2014) and during that time supported the Players who worked long and hard to get it built. One of the Players members served on the long range planning committee for 20 years trying to reach that end. One of the former RCSC presidents has been actively pushing for it being built. Every step of the way, i supported them. During that time frame, golfers were the majority of the board and the general manager had decided that golf was to be a top priority. Given that, the theater took a back seat. There was just never really a desire for it to be a priority. No matter how hard the Players pushed, it never made much headway. Then about 4 years ago, that all changed. The Players had been performing at Mountain View since its opening in 1968. The stage, storage area, dressing rooms and seating were all old and tired. Suddenly with traction, the Mountain View remodel took life. Two town hall meetings were held. Comments were made last month that roughly 450 members attended those sessions. In addition, a short-lived ad hoc committee was formed and quickly disbanded. Clearly the push from those attending the town hall meetings was for building the Performing Arts Center and the second most often heard comments were regarding the beloved swimming pool. The MV pool is spacious and truly a local hangout spot. The rest of the buildings are horrible. Over the years, i have seen several sets of blue prints submitted by the Sun City Players. One of them included underground parking beneath the center. Most of them showed plans for a much larger theater, one of them with seating for 900. Personally, i've always been in favor of the theater being located at the original location, Bell Rec Center. Nothing says that is right or best, just my opinion. On the other hand, the Players have remained steadfast it should be at Mountain View. I suspect that is more due any change in location will simply slow it down once again. Since this discussion/debate has begun, i have always maintained one theory/concern; Where will it fit from a square footage perspective? I have been told by a reliable source the RCSC did a space study regarding the theater back in 2009. I have not seen it, just heard of it. Rather than commenting on what members told me it said, this study should be published and released to the membership. More importantly, the 9 board members should have access to it. The reality is this, back when the amenities were built, the parking codes either didn't exist, or are different than they are today. We know when they built Fairway in 2005-2010 the RCSC ran into problems when the county told them they were in violation of said codes. What i don't know is how those codes are applied when a building is added to an existing site? I don't know how those grandfathered buildings are factored into the equation? Based on the answers given at meetings regarding MV, i'm not sure anyone knows. We heard from management the cost for the preliminary blue prints for the Mountain View project will be 1.3 million dollars. They did tell us they were in the process of trying to negotiate a lower price point for those blues. We've heard no word further on that matter. I don't know about you, but that's a lot of money and the question becomes simple, once we spend that much, are those making the decisions going to argue as long as they have this much invested, should we just plow forward irrespective of the costs? We need a theater, but are we of the mind we need one no matter how much it costs? Is there any amount that is to high, too much?
Bill, I think it's worth mentioning, and too add a little perspective to the situation, that the space the Players are currently using as their theater at Mountain View was originally an indoor roller-skating rink! By all means it was always a far from a perfect situation!
For your historical viewing pleasure: Mountain View Town Hall Videos ** RCSC Long Range Planning Committee - Mountain View Town Hall Meeting afternoon session 652 views · 3 years ago ** RCSC Long Range Planning Committee - Mountain View Town Hall Meeting evening session 345 views · 3 years ago
Just like i remembered them eo. Mostly pool and theater supporters. That makes sense. Imagine if the RCSC announcing a town hall meeting regarding pickleball, or lawn bowling and then picture who would show up. I've listened to members tell us this was the most democratic process in Sun City's history. But was it? The room was filled with those wanting their pool to be preserved and the Players who wanted a Performing Arts Center. Nope, nothing wrong with that, but for the most part people paid little or no attention. Now that we've seen the artists renderings for a building that looks like it belongs in Scottsdale or Paradise Valley and we've seen the price tag spiraling upward and now that we know they are going to destroy perfectly good pickleball courts, lawn bowling green and mini-golf, questions are being asked. Well they should. I am all for a theater, as i have said repeatedly. What i am not for is a Theater with no regard for costs. What i am concerned about is we overpay for a project that is beyond our needs or means. We all like nice things. We all expect amenities that are well maintained and meet our needs. I've written before, when we lived in St Paul MN, we were season ticket holders at the Ordway Theater in downtown St Paul. It was drop dead gorgeous and cost a fortune. Mrs. Ordway left a small fortune to have it built. As much as i enjoyed that venue, we aren't going to be bringing in Broadway performances. At some point we all need to be practical and realistic as to what are needs are. The architects will build whatever you tell them you want. If we are not specific they will let their imaginations run wild with no regard to the cost. My fear is we are already traveling down that path. It would be interesting to hold those same town hall meetings and show folks the drawings and the potential costs for it and see what the feedback is. My guess is, no one in the room saw or expected what we are seeing now. BTW, the Mountain View gym is a dump and needs to go. It's embarrassing we forced the Players to perform there. It's just too damned bad the RCSC made golf their go to everything, we could have easily built them a first class venue for a fraction of the cost we are looking at now.
