Isn't it time to invoke the 25th Amendment?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by CMartinez, Jul 15, 2020.

  1. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    I've been wondering for awhile why SC (seemingly) has a lower CV rate than the surrounding area? This morning when I got online and read the papers, Bingo -- (maybe) it's because there's no kids here?
    Sadly, the anti-science gov't forces will ignore this.
     
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  2. CMartinez

    CMartinez Active Member

    So true. The numbers which mean the most, the children, our future, will not be counted in a viable way.

    All the dictator sees is making the economy look good so he can get re-elected. And what if he loses, he says he won't leave. He has already said he will find a way to make the results not count. So, we are placing all of our lives at risk so this nut case can try and win an election. And now he feels even more empowered because there is proof the Russians have been meddling in our elections already. He feels the meddling is to help him win. Could any of this get any worse?

    Meddling Russians in an election which should toss the crazy man out of the window, and the American public is having their health put at risk due to a psycho at the helm. This just never ends
     
  3. CMartinez

    CMartinez Active Member

    This is who it would take to invoke the 25th Amendment. We know these people have enough knowledge by now the dictator is not to be trusted, and needs to be removed from office. Isn't it a shame when leadership is needed the most, it is least available to the public which desperately needs a change of course. Instead, almost all of the Republicans have fallen in step with this lunatic, and has left this country floundering under the weight of a delusional, out of touch fool.

    I was just reading an article which states the tRump presidency is pulling down all republican candidates. I so hope this is true, as there are a number of malingerers which need to go, especially in the local arena. Here is to Arizona voting blue, and having a strong desire for real leadership in our government in the very near future.
     
  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    It ain't happening Carole, they're going to ride trump right off the cliff. They made their bed and now they are stuck. Here's the really, really great news. Once trump is gone, everyone of those positions you listed above can be filled by competent people who know what they are doing. Trump made a mockery of so many of those positions with folks who were anti the agency/position they filled. Then you've got all the unfilled and unconfirmed slots that couldn't pass senate confirmation because they were unqualified.

    I look for several of the past presidential hopefuls taking positions in his administration. It will take time to fix the mess trump dumped on us, but we'll get there someday.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  5. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    I sure hope so. I fear the damage he's done runs deeper than most of us know.
     
  6. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    For anyone concerned at sending federal troops to engage (mostly) peaceful protesters, it's not the first time in modern American history. Many of us boomers may recall the Vietnam protests during Nixon's presidency -- and that they degenerated into federal policing actions which, in histories eyes, didn't reflect well on Nixon's Administration. (IMO) there's a great read in today's news... (here)... it's long, but if you read it, read it all.
    12,000 people were "arrested" that first week of May, 1971 -- w/o paperwork. Judges declared virtually all the arrests were illegal and ordered the government to pay millions of dollars in compensation.

    Nixon lied, took no responsibility, and publicly blamed others (it all eventually came out in Nixon's tapes).

    Trump deserves the same shame that Nixon received -- November can't come soon enough for me.
     
  7. SCR

    SCR Member

    It is not just the President that must be removed. EVERY incumbent Representative and/or Senator must also be removed from office.

    Our do nothing congress is a joke. A very good example of their stupidity is the current hearings with high level tech companies. NOTHING will come of those hearings.

    Congress is has no clue and they will do nothing that will affect their chances of being re-elected.
     
  8. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    I certainly don't disagree lots of obstructionists and hand-in-the-till types need to be removed from Congress. The problem is the people seen as obstructionists by the red team are not the same as those seen by the blue team, so forcing both teams to select all new players might not change the dynamics a whole lot. I'd opt for term limits and much stronger laws regarding campaign finance, lobbying, and ability to benefit monetarily.
     
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  9. CMartinez

    CMartinez Active Member

    I have come to grips with the reality there is no getting tRump out of office sooner. I am also praying the earlier polls hold, as there has been a tightening in the numbers over the last few days, and this makes me nervous. I am afraid of another 2016, and we get stuck with the cheeto colored one again. I try not to think of what the outcome could be.

    So instead, I am hoping all of the incumbents which seem to be holding their positions, do so. We need a blue congress to impeach the great orange one if he gets in again, and this time, make it stick, no behind the scenes deals. With some fresh faces and ambitions, we may have our county back yet.

    No more secret police, no more lies and deceit, no more taking from the people to fund golf trips, and no more illegal activities. NO MORE tRUMP, period.
     
  10. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    I am tired of the political talk.
    Move to a country that you think is run better.
     
  11. CMartinez

    CMartinez Active Member

    I can't, there is not another country that will take Americans due to the way the US is being run right now by the cheeto colored one. If you don't like the political talk, then don't read it.
     
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  12. Say What

    Say What Member

    Lobotomy and a bowl of excrement for all Trump lovers served piping hot
     
  13. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Peg, are you really tired of it? Really? Or are you just frustrated that so many disagree with your point of view? Whatever you feel, you are entitled to your opinion. But know that freedom and democracy require discourse to thrive.

    For me, political discourse is necessary to cut through the fake news and know what's really going on in the world, necessary to judge whether the "news" I watch/hear and read online, including venues like this forum, is true or not. If I didn't want to put forth the effort to know truth from misinformation/con-job I could just ignore it all, follow the leader and let the chips fall wherever the may -- after all, that's what many great civilizations did in the past (Romans, Greeks, France, etc) -- and their greatness pretty much did the Thelma and Louise finale thing as the end result.

    What concerns me most is our decline in civility toward each other and in respecting each other's opinions over the past several decades. When the news media and our public figures use derogatory language -- stupid, dumb, insane, crazy, etc as personal adjectives then it's no longer political discourse, it's a blatant personal attack. It may sell newspapers and garner high ratings on TV and online media, but people who cannot show personal respect for others are not worthy of receiving respect themselves.

    When leaders try to denigrate journalism, silence opposing views, deny access to the facts of what's actually happening we all should be very nervous because that's how the leaders of Russia, North Korea, China are today, and it's how many historical regimes realized power over the course of history. Currently the US ranks 45th in the 2020 World Press Freedom Index, sadly down from 42 last year. (BTW, Russia, North Korea, and China rank 149, 180, 177 respectively -- IMO good indicators why they cannot be believed without first hand verification, and I don't mean Putin or Kim Jong-un or Xi Jinping personal word to Trump.

    I spent my first 4o+ years of life living close enough to NYC to have heard plenty about the character of the Trump family, their business dealings, organized crime ties, etc. -- and especially related to Donald who has always been a media whore. Like many from the greater NY metro area, I warned everyone I could in 2015 that Donald was a con-man with no redeeming character, that he had stolen from his closest associates and then claimed they stole from him, that most all of his business success was actually a lie, that he was a womanizer, a reputed rapist, a racist, and that he had close ties to mafia's both foreign and domestic. Most importantly, I warned them that a leopards spots never change -- that he would use the Presidency to feather his own nest and never think twice about who he hurt in the process, that he has never admitted a failure or doing anything wrong -- but he is adept at changing his mind.

    So, moving toward the election, what will he do? Will he run? Will he decline to run for some excuse he thinks absolves him of responsibility for that decision? If he declines will he do so on such short notice that it catches the Dems off guard (especially after they've made a big fuss over not delaying the election)? If he runs and loses you can be sure he will not admit he was defeated -- will he have to be removed from the office by force? Will he trash the WH on his way out? If he loses will the GOP resume their obstructionist tactics like they did with Obama (guaranteeing another 4-years of nothing done by our congress). In spite of the pandemic, it's going to get even more interesting.
     
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  14. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

    Or if it bothers you so much, you move to a country where they don't have freedom of speech.
     
  15. CMartinez

    CMartinez Active Member

    Okay folks, it is time to find our respect for each other, and allow Peg her point of view. The rest of us do not feel any concern for the current oval office holder, but there is a segment of the population, which befuddles me, find him as useful. As IC spoke earlier, it is with discourse we find our way, and seek middle ground to land on. Peg is a smart, caring woman and deserves to be able to be heard without mud slinging or name calling. That is what the current administration does, and we must find a way to be above the fray.

    It confuses me beyond any belief how anyone can see any redeeming qualities in the current white house resident, yet, many do. If we are to be adults with intellectual abilities, we should be capable of hearing and considering the other side and do so with esteem and respect. Let us please respect others opinions without being petty about it.
     
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  16. CMartinez

    CMartinez Active Member

    If you're having trouble crossing party lines to vote for Joe Biden, watch this.
    Then consider that you'd also be voting for a new Coronavirus Task Force.
     
  17. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

    I suspect that trump will go down as the worst president, so far, in American history, but I don't think that this is the appropriate place to post stuff such as the two about and a couple of others. Discourse is fine, let's talk about it, But DNC generated propaganda I find inappropriate. Save it for Facebook.
     
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  18. CT, as for worst president, somewhere James Buchanan, Warren G Harding and Herbert Hoover are preparing the Worst President Clubhouse ready for a new member. One hundred years from now when another pandemic may be sweeping the world, leaders will study how the U.S. responded to Cofevfev 19 and learn what not to do.

    The historian, Arnold Toynbee, theorized in books The History of Civilization that great countries rise and fall based on how they respond to challenges. I hope that we do not end up in the dust bin of history like Egypt, Greece, Rome, Byzantinium.
     
  19. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

    My mother, as she got older and older continued to read the AZ Republic every day, we'd chat about it over breakfast, everyday starting anew about gay marriage and the other topics of the day. The one book that she kept at hand was "Rating the Presidents" it shows Harding at the nadir, then Buchanan and A, Johnson. The current guy can check "Impeached" off his list and probably go below Johnson. As far as our civilization goes, no one stays on top forever (I think we might have just slipped out of that spot) and in these days of accelerated change, things happen pretty quickly.
     
  20. CT, I forgot about Andrew Johnson (still working on memory issues), he was a blatant racist. The impeachment was the result of a law passed by the Radical Republicans led by Thaddeus Stevens of PA. Johnson didn’t comply and they impeached him. Conviction was stopped by one vote. The senator Who voted against conviction was written about in JFK’s Profiles in Courage. Johnson was not elected to his own term, went back to TN and I believe he served in the State government. I’m not sure if he falls in the worst president category but definitely knocking on the clubhouse door.

    As for greatest presidents, historians agree on the top three, Washington, Lincoln and FDR. They may shuffle the top three spots occasionally but no serious contenders have appeared. Trump could have been a contendah, but is lack of intelligence, little understanding of the job, political hacks everywhere instead of professionals and really not listening to the experts but listening to his idiot family, has given him concrete shoes with a matching Chicago overcoat in a historical sense.

    The real jockeying of positions is in average and near great. A case in point would be Harry S Truman. He was a failed businessman (sound familiar) who was a product of the Pendergast machine in KC. FDR’s VP, Henry Wallace knew how bad FDR’s health was in 1944 and was quite sure he would be re-elected but die in office. The Dems didn’t want this poser to be prez so they chose some they thought they could manipulate. Bad career decision. Although basically despised when he left office, scholarship since the 1970’s, particularly David McCullough’s biography has really shone a new light on him and his career. Highly recommend his book and anything by him.

    As for Toynbee, it deals with unmanageable empires, overextending the military, internal corruption, inbred family members, constant assassinations, etc.

    Sorry this is so wordy but trying to use my university education to enlighten my fellow residents.
     
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