Does the data and trends support the cost to build a Sun City theater?

Just asking for different opinions...

 

In my opinion, the first piece, and most important piece, of data is one we can't seem to get our hands on and that's what percentage of the 35,000+ Members use, or never use any of the facilities?

We can't keep buying or building things if only one-third or one-half of the Members never use any!

We are a land locked community. No more homes. And it seems like those who are moving here are less interested in the amenities and only interested in an inexpensive place to live!

And as time goes on I think that trend will continue to grow as more and more homes are taking on different usage.

And that's my opinion.

 

Agree Tom. Not one of my neighbors use the facilities at all. 4 golf. You are correct about a cheap place to live, it allows them to have 2 homes. No kids but niece doesn't want my home, just the money. Same with her mom's home. When my sister died those kids moved faster than I have ever seen them move before. It was high speed, sell condo, load truck and gone.

Someone who lives in phase 1 was asking for donations, dishes, bedding etc., for a low income multi person home. No clue what that was about. My realtor told me a few investors are looking for properties in this area for group homes.

Those that say we don't need restaurants and shopping are correct. we go to Scottsdale often for lunch and go to favorite stores we don't have here-Kierland's Commons and Fashion Square, Crate and Barrel. I am kind of loosely quoting a friend.

Just my opinion

 

I did an analysis that indicated in a best-case scenario a theater would be used to about 18% of capacity which makes sense because most theaters are large venues that have few people in them except for performances. A number of our most popular performances (concerts, tip top dance performances, etc.) have audience sizes that are much too large for a small (350 seat) theater. One director suggested we could move some meetings to a theater (e.g., Board Meetings) but this would not work for meetings where very controversial issues (e.g., library closures) are addressed. It may be possible to have small concerts in a theater but the ticket price would need to be triple what a Sun Dial concert is On the trend side, theaters across the country are closing in record numbers because of the home entertainment (Streaming & Cable TV) evolution. Someone recently suggested the Players Club, which had more than 600 members in 1984, has less than 100 members today.

 

John, while you're crunching numbers can you give us some perspective on the 18% with other samples? Fitness centers? Tennis courts? And one that's in the news for a 6 million facelift: Quail Run GC?

Has anyone asked the performance groups if they would prefer to do more small venue performances? Maybe after all the work into a production, they might prefer to do 4 x 350 people vs 2 x 700 people??

And maybe with a small venue for concerts we'd start booking something other than tired old cover bands. Am I seriously the only one here that likes solo acoustic?

 

I'm not so sure, at the current age of the Players, that they have the endurance to do multiple performances? (No disrespect intended) But you're right, there are things that can be done without having to spend 13 million dollars on a facility that's only used 18% of the time!

And now they want to spend 6 million dollars on Quail Run GC???? I think we could find a better use for that property and those dollars as well. After all, how many golf courses do we need? The RCSC owns 8 and there are several local privately owned ones as well.

 

I must have been asleep when the immediate need for the $6M facelift at Quail Ridge GC was introduced. Can anyone explain to me why this got bumped to immediate?
Jean Totten

 

John Fast explained in his excellent summary of agenda motions:

“Golf (Preston) – Approve (PIF funds) +/- $6M to start the Quail Run Golf course renovation project. With very limited exception this motion is but an acceleration of items planned to meet regulatory requirements of ADWR.”

Thread here: https://talkofsuncity.com/threads/rcsc-board-of-directors-meeting-thursday-may-30-2024.5884/

 

Jeb, With the exception of golf during prime season, almost all of our existing facilities are not used to nearly to their capacity. The answer I heard most from performance groups with large audiences at Sun Dial is that they do not want to do more performances. It is always possible that the variety of entertainment options could be expanded to include smaller audiences but this, in my opinion, is based on economics (higher assessments and/or higher ticket prices) and not on facilities. The cost of the ADWR compliance project came as a bit of a shock to me but I assumed (and this may not be a valid assumption) that this course is in the worst shape of all of our courses. Hope this helps, Best regards, John Fast

 

It does a little. A phrase (thankfully) cropping up is "business plan". Apparently the answer to the question of this thread is : Nobody knows because there doesn't seem to be a document or report or plan you can point to that has the necessary components to make a decision. So I'm wondering what's the point of asking people's opinion on a theater, or indoor dog facility, more pickle-ball courts, a new building, or a NASA launch pad if no one has anything resembling an actual collection of real data? The opinions will be all over the map and none really tied to reality.

 

You have hit the proverbial nail on the head Jeb. Seems the BOD has/is voting to spend money on many items as they deliver a “master plan” for the members. But the rally cry has been “be patient”, things will improve. I’m with you the process is proceeding backwards and sideways. imho as always

 

YES!!!! It is illogical to make major capital decisions before the master plan is created and vetted. Yet, the Board's "Mountainview" motion says, in effect, we will hire an architect to design something to spend $27.3M on and the master plan can incorporate what we designed... (but we may buy a building instead or do something else if we feel like it). No wonder members are confused.

 

Has there even been an engineering study on the Mountain View building yet?

Does it have good bones or needs to be torn down?

That should have been done a long, long time ago.

 

100 % AGREE. Not sure why no one is getting on this.

 

I guess the idea was dropped once the SAC quit meeting. Though I believe the engineering study may still be on the table depending on what firm is hired for plans, etc. Again, “who is on first?” I mean seriously.

 

A large $27M expenditure on a PAC is not needed. What is needed are comfortable seats at the current location and a remodel of the auditorium and back stage areas. Let's face it, The Players are not a profession theater group and have been able to produce their shows in the current space for years. Some modernization of the pool and gym areas is also needed. That said, I think we got off track when Ms Pickleball was lobbying for the the indoor Pickleball Palace at Mountain View and was willing to spend anything on the PAC to kick The Players and almost everything else out to make her constituents happy. Hopefully the Palace is a dead as well as the indoor dog area which is also not needed and seems to have moved up the "want list" very quickly.

 

Isn't this exactly the point some of us are trying to make? That's all your opinion. Why is it more valuable, valid, reasonable, smarter than 37,000 other opinions on this (or any other matter)? Do you have any data or supporting documentation?

 

Jeb, I would recommend watching the videos of the SAC meetings. Much data was presented during those meetings. I will let you judge how complete, accurate, and valid, is this data. Have you seen the data from the SAC?

 

Let's not forget about the T-Bird building. Haven't heard anything about it for a while.