A Tale of Two Cities...

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Dec 28, 2022.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Such an odd header for two communities, neither of which are even "cities." Both Sun City and Sun City West are in fact communities that reside in mostly unincorporated sections of Maricopa County (a small portion of Sun City West is incorporated and hence the higher taxes).

    I grew up in St. Paul MN, next door to Minneapolis and were lovingly called the "Twin Cities." A term i hated. We were wholly different and more rivals than twins. I suspect it was a residual affect from where i grew up to when i moved to Sun City to have "issues" with Sun City West being referred to as our sister city (by some).

    The Del Webb Sun Cities Museum was held together, in large part, by Sun City West residents for almost all of 2000-2010. I quickly came to understand we were called the Sun Cities Area Historical Society because we encompassed both communities (with an early plan to include Sun City Grand that never materialized).

    The Museum opened in 1990 and the vast majority of board members/founders were Sun City residents. By 2000, there was a group of Sun City West residents who were elected as board members. They worked hard to promote both communities, but the bulk of the story line was focused on the original Sun City. I'm not sure the museum would have survived without those SCW board members.

    I was first elected to the museum board in 2009 and was president in 2010/2011. We became the Del Webb Sun Cities Museum to coincide with our 50th anniversary. The legal name on the documents is still the Sun Cities Area Historical Society. During that time we secured a large collection of Webb memorabilia and converted the front bedroom to pay homage to Del and his amazing accomplishments.

    Over the years, i learned to pay closer attention to Sun City West. While they were carved from the same mold, they were different. Their Home Owners Association (PORA), was handling initial CC&R violations but final adjudication was left to the Rec Centers of Sun City West. In Sun City our Home Owners Association (SCHOA) was completely free standing and separate from the RCSC.

    We almost bought in West and have closely followed their internal struggles. Around 1998-2001 there was a battle between a community activist group (SWOOG) and the RCSCW. They wanted a more open/transparent style of governance and rather than a lengthy legal battle, they simply agreed to do just that. End of story.

    However, this thread isn't really about any of that. Nope, this will be a tutorial about the right way (in my humble opinion) for a community to move forward. Several years back, Sun City West decided to drop the Del Webb name. If you drive by their signage, it simply says, "Sun City West."

    It was a bold move and one i hated to see. The reality is, they wanted to establish their own identity. They were always going to be living in the original Sun City shadow. They understood moving forward meant becoming something unique from Sun City. As i look back, it made perfect sense.

    With those comments out of the way, when i come back, we will take a deeper dive into their transformation and compare it to ours. It is both telling and useful as we bring on a new RCSC board who too want to establish their identity.

    Stay tuned, this will be both fun and informative.
     
    Larry and eyesopen like this.
  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    In my previous work life, i was no marketing guru. That said, running our local union, we were fairly innovative and at one point during an effort to build a different/better mouse trap i read several marketing books. The Ries and Trout “ books were exceptional. The whole first in concept made sense and the follow up on the Battle for Their Minds was well done.

    When we moved to Sun City, i was stunned to see how simple the marketing of the community was. We were the first of our kind in the nation. Yes, Youngstown was there before us but on a wholly different platform. Webb and ultimately Meeker’s genius was in understanding they owned the age restricted concept because they were the first in.

    Once we hired the new general manager and watched her try and rebrand us, i was beside myself. It would be like the founders of the Hola Hoop deciding they should shift gears and start producing the game Monopoly. It was foolishness personified. I guess if there is good news, it is we still own the rights to the City of Volunteers and that we are and always will be the first in.

    The challenge will be to embrace that mindset and return to those glory days where everyone looked to us as the measuring stick to become as good as. No small task when you consider how far removed we are from that position. Still doable and actually the blueprint to do it is captured at the Del WebbSun Cities Museum.

    With all of the above, i did come to understand why Sun City West rebranded and dropped the Del Webb name. They were in some ways a “rich man’s Sun City.” That said, while they were created in our likeness, they were also different. That was both a blessing and a curse for them and finding their own footings was only logical.

    In my next post we’ll explore what they have done and why i would argue, done better than anything we (Sun City) has done of late. It was no small task and interestingly enough, much of it began with the hiring of the new general manager.
     
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    In my humble opinion, there's one problem that follows not for profit organizations (and government institutions) and often stifles them (i originally wrote cripples but i'm trying to become a kinder, more gentle me). Those running these types of organizations tend to stay too long. They become comfortable (and lazy) in how they do their job. They do it by rote rather than working with enthusiasm and excitement.

    The classic example of change is good can be found in Sun City West. They had a long time general manager who did a good job, but things got a little sloppy. He let some stuff slide which left the community vulnerable. Part of the problem was due the structure. The board there has traditionally done a better job on oversight (than the RCSC), but they too became complacent in the backside administration. They are way more transparent; they don't try and hide stuff.

    Most community members pay virtually no attention to the one most vulnerable aspect of running organizations like ours (Sun City, Sun City West and Sun City Grand, etc). If you have been following the letters to the editor in the Independent or the local social media sites, you would immediately think "age overlay." There is this foreboding sense, we will lose it because an under-age person is living here. The reality is, that's a one-off and the community documents, the deed restrictions and the state and federal statutes are locked in place. Can't happen, won't happen. Youngtown lost theirs because they didn't do what needed to be done in mid 80's.

    Nope, the most vulnerable concern for age restricted communities is the potential loss of their tax status as organizations serving the memberships needs. I know no one pays any attention to that, but they should. We are as inexpensive as we are because of how we pay taxes on the amenities the RCSC owns. It's a fraction of the actual costs. In the early 60's this battle was fought and won between the government and DEVCO. At one point they started taxing us like a private country club. It would have broke Sun City's back and sent it to the ash heap of tried and failed. Cheap taxes, because of our tax status, allowed us the luxury to grow and flourish.

    Back to Sun City West; when the new general manager came in, he started taking inventory of everything that was going on. It's what a new GM should do. What he found was problems with outside participation (non-residents) greater than what was allowable under their tax status. He instantly started working with the board and the clubs to rectify it. Tough way to start out, but he understood the importance of getting his head around the potential problems that could come with what was going on.

    He took some heat but was calm about what needed to be done. On top of it, they found solutions members could live with. It was a difficult way to start off, but it had to be done. I would suspect only a handful pay any real attention other than those affected. Oddly enough, i did. I've always understood our breaking point and frankly its an area no one in their right mind wants to touch.

    Watching him work through the problems gave me reason to pay attention to the other stuff Sun City West was doing. Once they dumped Del Webb from their signage, they needed to make a statement about who and what they were. It was an important aspect of their rebranding, but they had the luxury of committees they actually engaged and listened to. They also have had a long standing training process for community leadership called the TORCH program.

    Anyone who has had any leadership training understands the importance of building a strong base. The idea leadership is top down driven is trapped in a failed logic. They believe when they have all the answers, others opinions aren't all that important. In my next post, we'll take a closer look at some of the things Sun City West has excelled at.
     
    Nia N Maxwell likes this.
  4. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Did the SCW GM have prior experience as a GM from a non-profit or did he come from a for-profit corporation?

    As we have begun to see, the mind-set of the two are 180 degrees apart!
     
    eyesopen, Linda McIntyre and BPearson like this.
  5. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    Coming from the NP sector, I totally agree about leadership training. In one of the organization where I was CEO, we started a leadership program that was highly successful. Limited to 25 participants over a 9 month period, it is still full for every series after 18 years. This program brought new young leaders in to other non-profit organizations, as well as our own organization (they actually started a Young Professionals Group), added volunteers for community events, created new events, and encouraged more corporate participation in the community. In each and every class we heard "I had no idea this happened in our community, or this service was available, or we really have a need, etc." Plus, each class was divided into four groups and performed a community service project. It was one of the best things our organization ever did for the community. Leadership matters!
     
  6. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And wouldn't that be a good start on getting the community back involved again?

    I wouldn't establish or force any part of the group to initially take on any community projects as stated in the TORCH program at SCW because that might scare people away at first.

    First, start our own TORCH program without any type of obligation, and I think those community projects would develop on their own as people become more engaged.
     
    Linduska, eyesopen and Linda McIntyre like this.
  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Tom Marone asked the question on another thread about the Sun City West general manager and whether he had experience with non-profits before being hired there. Seems to me the answer was yes and i believe an extensive background in community building. I would guess it was an easy transition; experience matters, always has, always will.

    To be fair, Sun City West has built a foundation that made it easier for him to work from/with. Literally everything they do is transparent. When they resolved the dispute with the resident activist organization (circa 2000), they committed to open governance and lived with it. 20 years of practice tends to make an organization learn to function from a different mindset. The RCSC on the other hand, has spent the past 15 years moving in the other direction.

    One community committed to relying on their membership to help shape direction; the other relying on the general manager to have all of the answers. Guess which one has been more successful? Sadly, those of us living in Sun City tend to measure success by how cheap we can keep our fees. But, are they? Ask a single person buying in Sun City after 2003 how "cheap" those fees are? Identical to a single person in SCW. Let's be clear, they are subsidizing couples.

    The differences are staggering on how the two communities function:
    1). The Torch program is the easy one; training future community leaders.
    2). Golf is an interesting discussion, as much outside play as Sun City, but they don't schedule tee times ahead of members and when they do get tee times they always pay more than what a resident pays (in accordance with their bylaws).
    3). They flat out call their residents, member/owners while we spent the past 15 years convincing us we were cardholders.
    4). They have detailed future expenditures posted online (year by year capital projects) while we have this strange PIF budget that we call the projects placeholders.
    5). They have posted detailed strategic plans arrived at by committees (long range and space allocation), while we have minimized committee recommendations and have argued we need to hire outsiders to help us.
    6). While doing some digging today, i came across this About us page on their website. Scroll down and take a look at their Core Values, as well as all of the other aspects of their governance. Once you've looked at it, pop on the RCSC website and try and find a similar page. Please, prove me wrong.
    7). We know in 2020 and 2021 the RCSC board members fired elected board members in "executive sessions." The beauty for them is they could tell us, they couldn't explain why, but trust them because they wouldn't do anything untoward. On the other hand the Sun City West board had an ugly situation develop between board members. A petition for recall was signed by 1000 members which brought forward a vote where he was kicked off the board by the members of the community (72% voted to remove him).

    Sadly, i could continue to list differences, but why bother? Sun City has morphed into a top down run organization while the Sun City West has stayed true to their roots, focusing on the membership, not the leadership.

    One final thought, in the past year, the RCSCW has started to become more focused on their history. Suffice to say, they have run toward their past while the RCSC has run from it. Kind of says it all doesn't it?
     
  8. Lyoness

    Lyoness New Member

    My opinion is that your expectations of residents and the time/effort they are willing to give is much too high. You can see this with the clubs. Instead of working against it and pushing people to do more, time should be spent on ideas that will work with what you have. Many can put in a few hours - they have appointments and other commitments. They can't devote themselves to a "job" nor do they want to. They want to come and go as they please and that won't get the job done.
     
  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Fair comment L other than i seldom publish my expectations regarding how much time residents should devote or dedicate to the ownership responsibilities when living in Sun City. Most of my writings have focused on the leaderships efforts to instill a sense of community; or in this case, their lack their of. That's probably where we part company because in my humble opinion we have been woeful in reaching out to members and making them feel they are a part of the process, rather than just the bill payer, you know, card holders.

    What we know from our history was Meeker/DEVCO worked jointly with the community associations (RCSC in 1972) to forge a community of residents who were committed to our success. I could and have written dozens of instances where they reshaped themselves to insure we not only survived, but thrived. The most unlikely of scenarios was when the powers that be wanted incorporation (1961-1995), the members resisted because they had no interest in becoming another Peoria or Glendale.

    I've also written volumes on the differences between the "greatest generation" and the "baby boomers." I suspect that was your point and i would agree; the GG were joiners, Boomers weren't/aren't. God only knows what "gen X" will bring. In fact, i posted in another thread the story from 2006 while on the board at SCHOA, we stuffed and delivered in a matter of weeks nearly 30,000 magazines. All volunteers who offered to help out. We to this day argue it was in part because what we were asking for wasn't long term commitments, but for short windows of their time.

    We know we have some issues with clubs, in part because members simply want to do the fun stuff and don't want the responsibilities of being officers or even monitors. I would argue it's partially the fault of the marketing whereby we became the "fun city" and not the "city of volunteers." I know it's just a slogan, but beyond that it's a mindset and a mentality that encourages participation.

    The previous GM's vision was for an evolution where the membership would just let the leadership do whatever they felt was right. I personally saw that as a failed process. The unique nature of Sun City's makeup was built around a sense of community and ownership. Trying to be what every other age restricted community was made no sense to me. Obviously the fact we were less expensive made it attractive, but we lost sight of the bigger picture Sun City by promoting how cheap we were. There's no better example of how we under performed than by looking at the state of our technology. It was a failed logic at best.

    Actually, this is the perfect thread for your comments. Looking at Sun City West and what they have been doing of late is an interesting test if your theory is correct. While they abandoned the Del Webb name on their signage, they have reverted back to the tenets and principles the community was founded under. I watched their annual meeting last June and the new GM used the term "member/owners" constantly. We on the other hand spent 15 years telling the residents they were "card holders."

    This is a great opportunity to showcase the Del Webb Sun Cities Museum and how history matters. 2022 was their most successful year, ever. More visits (even though now charging $5 for non-members), more events, more new displays, a higher membership than at any time in the past and a growing number of volunteers. To be clear, i'm not on their board, my role is simply some promotional things via social media. They've done it all without me; the community and it's members have stepped up. Let's be very clear it took a lot of work to make it all happen.

    Which brings us back full circle to your point: How much are those living here be willing to give to keep Sun City unique, special? Honestly i don't know. What i do know is when we hand out new resident packets that look like they were left overs from the copy machine, when they minimize the role members play and when they contain control in the hands of a very select few, we aren't as effective as we could/should be.

    The pandemic accelerated the course the general manager set us on. The new general manager was hired to do more of the same. He doesn't appear to have the skill set she did. My hope for this new year is we start to engage the membership and make them part of the process, not sitting on the outside looking in. It won't be everybody, but history tells us it doesn't need to be. Those we nurture and encourage and that want to be involved will be, those that don't, won't.
     
    Nia N Maxwell and eyesopen like this.
  10. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    The point of entry to volunteering must be short term opportunities where participants feel appreciated. It’s important member/owners know their time and resources are valued and make a difference or they’ll find other things to occupy their time.
    Blanket notification of cause events informs, but personally inviting someone to help is the most effective way to grow participation. Each One Bring One!
     
    Nia N Maxwell, Cheryl and BPearson like this.
  11. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    I joined a card club last year and went only two times. The chairperson told me explicitly where I could put my coat, purse and bottle of water. Also where I could sit and when I would change tables. At their luncheon, they directed me to how to serve myself. I appreciate order and organization, but I felt that I was being treated like a child. I have noticed the same in various other RCSC activities and events. Please, we are adults and know how to conduct ourselves.
     
    Nia N Maxwell likes this.
  12. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Perhaps the best reason to drop the moniker "The Original Fun City"?

    All the rules and regulations seem to have taken the "Fun" out of the city!

    Be careful with those pool noodles! You might poke an eye out kid!
     
    LoriEllingson and eyesopen like this.
  13. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

  14. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

  15. Say What

    Say What Active Member

    Happy New Year. A new year and the same cry babies. Get off your asses and do something for the community. The survey is going to be interesting. You should be ashamed of the negative dribbling you have done for the past year.
     
  16. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Seems to me the "cry babies" managed to accomplish quite a bit last year? We saw the return of the Member/Board Exchange, although a lot is left to desire and undone when it comes to actually addressing some of the concerns.

    We managed to force them to take a stab a revising the bylaws although it was the board who prevented its passing because it gave too much power back to the members.

    Best of all, we managed to elect the candidates of our choice. And the year before we managed to reelect Karen McAdam.

    So it seems to me that the cry babies have caught the attention of the board and it's now up to the new board to follow thru with some of their campaign promises.

    The squeaky wheel gets the most grease! If you say nothing, you get nothing!
     
  17. carptrash

    carptrash Active Member

    I really hope that this sometimes-truism does not translate onto everyone's New Year's Resolutions list.
     
  18. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    Dear Mr. Say What:

    Happy New Year! I hope 2023 finds you healthier and happier than 2022.

    I don't consider myself either a "cry baby" or a "newbie", but perhaps you do. I worked diligently on the Bylaws revision for over eight months, using my insight from other Board experiences and analyzing what I saw, heard, read and experienced to draw my conclusions of what to believe, support and who to vote for as a Director. Throughout this experience, I have met some wonderful Members who care deeply about our Sun City. Unfortunately I have also learned to be cautious about who and what to believe and follow. There is much work to be done and I have volunteered to be on one committee in the upcoming year, just not sure which committee the new leadership will decide. If you care to give me your name, I will respect your input on whatever that committee is and the issues we will be considering. In my opinion, I have been neither "dribbling negatively nor sitting on my a....".

    In some of your earlier posts, you made reference to "newbies" wanting to change things. My question to you, "How long does a Member need to be here before you deem their opinions worthwhile?" In my case, either my parents or I have owned property in Sun City for 20+ years, paying our annual fees as required. Additionally I have paid the PIF fee twice which undoubtedly helped pay for some of the amenities that you have enjoyed over the years. If 20+ years is not adequate, please propose that RCSC adjusts my annual fees accordingly.

    I am ready and willing to roll up my sleeves and help out as I can but I will also express my thoughts when I consider them appropriate.

    Good Tidings,
    Janet Curry

    p.s. I almost always pick up litter and dispose of it in nearby trash receptacles. It's what we do in the Midwest!
     
  19. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    You are far more kind to polite to say what than i elect to be Janet. Your questions were spot on, especially given the countless hours you devoted to the bylaws rewrite. Better yet SW, here's the real question; what did you think this "crying" was about? Was it just our need to be in the spotlight? Hardly dude. We had an end game and the point was to get to the exact spot we are in.

    Do me a favor and read back what i wrote in this thread. I seldom spew things without a point. In this case, it's to suggest one obvious and easy to digest direction; look closely at what Sun City West has done. Look at the language they have drafted and make work well...for the community. Look at how open and straight forward they are; they hide nothing. You know why? There's nothing to hide from the member/owners. Duh.

    While you can lament whatever you are feeling such hostility over, you need to get your head around this: The 3 elected candidates garnered 2 and half times the number of votes the remaining 4 got. That's staggering. In spite of the silly ass control games they played; the membership rebuked them. The golfers voted against them, the pickleball players spoke loudly even with the promise of new courts at Lakeview. The theater people obviously want their new home as well they should. The clubs that have been neglected for too long need the improvements they have been waiting for years. The bylaws need to be addressed and this idea we need to stockpile money rather than spending it on the membership is utter nonsense.

    AND, one final thing to consider say what, i've been here 20 years and i would love to lay by resume and time spent giving back alongside yours. It might be telling enough for you finally quit telling us how we should act and what we need to do. You simply don't get it.
     
    Nia N Maxwell and eyesopen like this.
  20. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    “The 3 elected candidates garnered 2 and half times the number of votes the remaining 4 got. That's staggering. In spite of the silly ass control games they played; the membership rebuked them. The golfers voted against them, the pickleball players spoke loudly even with the promise of new courts at Lakeview. The theater people obviously want their new home as well they should. The clubs that have been neglected for too long need the improvements they have been waiting for years. The bylaws need to be addressed and this idea we need to stockpile money rather than spending it on the membership is utter nonsense.
    Bill Pearson”


    Sun City Advocate efforts by the numbers! Voter participation in 2021 and 2022 (SCA endorsed winning candidates 1,630 and 1,800s) exploded over 2020 candidates receiving votes in the 800s!
    COMMUNITY MEMBER/OWNERS WINNING!

    As Member RCSC involvement is once again welcome and encouraged, voter participation will continue to increase.

    2022 ELECTION (Sun City Advocates‘ Second Year Jan. - Dec., 2022)
    The number of ballots cast in the 2022 election totaled 2,617 (Online via the RCSC Web Portal 2,076, In-person 254, Absentee 255).

    • John Fast who received 1,873 votes,
    • Steve Collins who received 1,802 votes, and
    • Jean Totten who received 1,722 votes.

    2021 ELECTION (Sun City Advocates‘ First partial year, Aug. - Dec., 2021)
    The successful candidates elected to serve on the RCSC Board beginning in 2022 for full three-year terms are:

    • Karen McAdam who received 1,630 votes,
    • Kat Fimmel who received 1,567 votes, and
    • Allan Lenefsky who received 1,424 votes
    One additional seat on the Board will also be filled as a result of this election: John Nowakowski received 1,409 votes and will serve for two years.

    2020 ELECTION (No Sun City Advocates)
    The RCSC Board of Directors 2020 election results are in. The total number of ballots cast in this year’s election totaled 1,166 (49 absentee ballots, 100 ballots cast in person at the poll on Election Day and 1,017 electronic ballots were cast online).
    The successful candidates elected to serve on the RCSC Board beginning in 2021 for full three-year terms are:

    • Dale Lehrer who received 840 votes,
    • Sue Wilson who received 826 votes, and
    • Karen McAdam who received 736 votes
    Two additional seats on the Board will also be filled as a result of this election: Steve Collins (674) will serve a 2-year term and Shelia Rooney (613) will serve for one year.
     

Share This Page