Member Engagement - Who's job is it?

I hear your points on this Bill. I am concerned about the woman who's husband died, and she can hardly make ends meet. People who are truly alone. I just am thinking out loud here and wondering if there was a way that folks who are under poverty line, can no longer work and you know they can't afford to buy or even pay for rent someplace else. Is there not a way that some of these folks would qualify for a reduced fee of some kind. It is only a question that offers some realities here and maybe we could all think about any of us being in that realm of possibility.

 

That is when they need the foundation here, is that correct?

 

It's all about the Benjamin's. Bill thinks if someone owns their home they should take out a HELOC to pay the assessment if they don't have readily available cash. Here are some of the associated fees of doing that. Does this make sense to you?

Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC) fees can include closing costs (2%-5% of the loan amount), application fees, annual fees, and potentially fees for early closure or inactivity, but some lenders waive certain fees.
Here's a more detailed breakdown of potential HELOC fees:

• Closing Costs: These are fees associated with opening the HELOC account and can range from 2% to 5% of the loan amount.
• Application Fees: Some lenders may charge a fee for applying for a HELOC.
• Annual Fees: Some lenders charge an annual fee to maintain the HELOC.
• Early Closure Fees: If you close the HELOC before a certain period, some lenders may charge a fee.
• Inactivity Fees: Some lenders may charge a fee if you don't use the HELOC for a certain period.
• Conversion Fees: If you convert a portion of your balance to a fixed interest rate, some lenders may charge a fee.
• Other Fees: Some lenders may charge other fees, such as fees for using convenience checks or transferring money to your checking account.

And even more important the interest rates on paying the loan:

As of April 4, 2025, home equity line of credit (HELOC) interest rates, which are variable and based on the Wall Street Journal Prime Rate, typically range from around 7.95% to 11.60% APR.

Yeah, that'll help.

 

Indeed, Eileen, that is the reason for the Foundation. Unfortunately it's not a long term solution and was never intended to be.

 

Bill it says right in the rules ONE TIME PAYMENT, my point it you are acting like it is your personal money. You mentioned loan against home. That makes no sense to me. See above. Neither does you responding to someone asking how confidential their info is no one gives a shit who you are. I have lived here 20 years and that was the first time I needed help and that's the answer I got for asking one question. You should be ashamed of yourself, however as I posted you said you don't care what people think about you.

Community before corporation, people before politics. What a joke

 

Bill,

You are so correct. We are a community built for those desiring to live in an adult living situation with amenities built to support that lifestyle. We are NOT the social services department in charge of communal living. This is true for every adult community out there. One lives here for the lifestyle we provide. There are known costs inherent to living in an adult community, and those costs are increasing exponentially. To suggest that the community needs to degenerate in order to not make a few homeowners pay their fair share is unbelievable. The foundation will make every effort to assist those in need, but its also unfair to expect a handout when your equity in your home can cover many of the homeowners needs. There are other options, such as a reverse mortgage to provide money to the homeowner. Yes, it means putting the home up for money, but if the person is so destitute they cannot meet the needs of daily living it has to be considered. Living in dire conditions so you can leave your house to your estate is not making sound decisions. If the person is placing their own wellbeing at risk due to lack of funds, yet has access to the equity in their home that should be considered a viable option to remain in their home. Otherwise, call AHCCS to see about help finding alternate living arrangements.

I know of no active adult community that has a reduced rate because you can't afford to live there. Most places expect you to sell your home and move on. Sun City is unique in that we have the Sun City Foundation in an effort to step up in a time of need. and should not be an expectation that the assistance will continue every year. This community also needs to remain attractive to residents and potential buyers, which means an increase in the yearly assessment to manage the costs to live here. What would make anyone think that the cost of living here wont be increased? This is a golf course community, who is going to cover the costs of maintaining these amenities, whether you use them or not?

By virtue of your address, there are costs for living here. Right now, the yearly charge is significantly lower than other like communities. If living here is placing such a burden on the resident, they need to actively seek other living arrangements. Living with relatives, group home setting or contacting AHCCS for other resources may be the best answer or a second mortgage or refinancing the home, these are all options to consider. Expecting the community to be a social services organization is not ab available option. The entirety of the membership cannot be held hostage by a few needing assistance.

 

You never cease to amaze me. Oh my 17 stitches hurt so much. I am in dire pain. My neuropathy is so bad today I couldn't make the board meeting.

Old lady loses her husband, SSI income cut in half but she still owes the same assessment fee, and you respond with we can't held hostage by the needs of a few (for the wants of the many)

What causes neuropathy? Can it be corrected, like with a special diet?

Held Hostage! Lord help us.

 

Question was, "Is there Section 8 Housing in Sun City?"

Answer was:

"Yes, Section 8 housing, also known as the Housing Choice Voucher Program, is available in Sun City, AZ. You can find affordable apartments that accept Section 8 vouchers through websites like ForRent.com and Trulia."

 

There are social services options available to those needing help. It should not be the entirety of Sun City to be accountable for your financial decisions. There’s needs to maintaining the facilities and keeping them in top shape. Ideally, integration of additional services and resources will come to fruition. Is it going to cost more money? You bet. One cannot ignore the cost of maintenance by falsely keeping the price of the performing the required services out of sight. There is a need for maintaining what we have and it costs money.
As for mocking me, just keep it up. Another page to forward to the attorney generals office.

 

I realize what everyone is saying here, but maybe we need to here from the foundation about what kinds of inquiries they get. There must be some cases here as I've pointed out, with stories just like this.
Now this discussion has me very curious about all of this.
You know a person can live too long, and we all should hope that inflation along with our personal finances will help us make it through.

 

Probably some won't and they will end up in some awful nursing home, but I guess we can't let them hijack us. When I worked for Sun Health there was an organization we received money from that allowed us to send a CNA to the home to help. I hope your friend is going to be ok and if I find the organization I will let you know. Imagine losing 1/2 of SSI income yet still having to pay your assessment as if you still had a spouse. Things can be done to save on electricity and heat, groceries etc, but that assessment will just be there always.

 

This dialogue touches upon the heart of the issue. For any number of reasons one can find themselves in dire financial straits. As Bill points the foundation can provide some transitional relief but ultimately if the individual cannot afford to live here that person needs to find alternative living arrangements. It is a very unfortunate fact of life. Usually, where I came from, family will step in and help out financially but that is not always the case. Selling the home and renting is always an option but that involves moving which is difficult at our advanced age. There is no good answer.

 

Unfortunately, there is not. It doesn't help though when former board members use terms like "we can't let the few "hijack" us, or "no one gives a shit who you are. This is a public forum anyone can see. You don't have to be a member. There are different ways to say the same things.

Since last year when I leave a review about of SC I say stay North of Grand and do not volunteer for anything. They can use all the Danielle Steele flowery words they want but it doesn't matter. I posted the nobody gives a shit about me on next door, no names used, and so very many responded. I have a few friends who live on Oakmont and Alabama and they were very angry. I was asked by a new foundation board member to take it down. I did not.

I am not a representative of SC so it doesn't really matter what I say, but former board members? Carole wrote a lovely, long post saying I am mentally ill? What university gave her an MD in Psychology.

Bill's post: When i do things, get involved with stuff or even when i write, i don't really care if the things i am doing or saying is well received or if people like me. It's just never been a priority in my life. That is not a leader.

This is why I don't like SC. And the fact not a damn thing ever gets done. It has turned into a very sad place. You don't need TORCH for members, you need etiquette lessons for the leaders.

In my opinion SC lost a lot of trust during 2024.

 

There are already programs for someone in her situation for her other expenses. Sun City Can has a paper on what they can do for people. If the home is paid for a reverse mortgage may be what she needs.

 

Meanwhile back at the topic that this thread was about, it appears unclear if anyone is responsible for engaging members in a positive way in the governance of the community. This leads me to a follow-on question. What adjectives best describe the attitude of the majority (>50%) RCSC members:

Happy
Content
Apathetic
Excited
Glad
Angry
Mad
Caring
Satisfied
Liberal
Restless
Trusting
Disappointed
Greedy
Self-centered
Conservative

Does the answer depend on the financial circumstances of the members?
Does your answer change if you exclude snowbirds?

Asking for a friend...

 

A little “stubborn “?

 

What a fascinating question and one that encompasses more than the externals of where we live. Thank goodness it's not pick one. My list: Happy; Content; Caring (that covers a wide range of possibilities); Satisfied; Liberal (politically and otherwise).

Not having to worry about finances helps, but certainly it isn't the end-all-be-all. I learned long ago happiness is a state of mind, not the state/city one lives in. That said, finding the community of Sun City afforded us the opportunity to live a fully engaged way of life, even in retirement, and not having to travel the world looking for happy moments. My old adage that if i can't get there on my golf car, i don't want to go, is still true after 20 plus years; heck, even more-so than when we first arrived and still traveled a bit.

Arguably, our winter residents, have the best of both worlds; albeit with multiple properties to maintain and pay for. We beat the summer heat with the backyard pool, a luxury that not everyone can afford or that most have an interest to want to cope with. Which is why our 7 pools are the one amenity that gets the reverse utilization numbers even though our summer population drops dramatically.

All of which brings us full circle to our stunning history. The Del E Webb Development Corporation (DEVCO) dedicated a large portion of their marketing budget reinforcing the fact buyers to our community made a brilliant selection when choosing Sun City. It was a tough decision in those early years to leave family, friends and often your place of birth. DEVCO was tireless in helping buyers get over that.

It worked incredibly well, a fact that should not be lost on the RCSC.

 

Yes, I saw that about sun city can. I forgot about that program. It also has been here for a very long time. Thank you!

 

Again, you exhibit the intelligence of a kumquat and my apologies to kumquats. The “old lady” you refer to has probably lived here since prior to 2003 which means she would be paying person or I. Other words half of the annual fee. If she is that destitute not paying the fee would be extreme but useful. RCSC would file liens for unpaid fees but would not foreclose on those liens until after she passes. Any heirs would probably see the residence and RCSC would collect at closing.
Evidently your years working at a hospital limited your medical knowledge to almost nothing. Your insults of Carole are beyond the pale. I have known her and been friends with for a very long time and she has battled medical issues that would make you puke. In spite of that allow me to enlighten you on neuropathy, specifically perpherial neuropathy. It is cased by inflammation of nerves in the feet but it is a slow moving degenerative disease that travels up the legs and stops at the knees. Neurologists do not know what causes it and there is no cure. The best they can do is prescribe medication, usually Lyrica.
When I was on the Board many years ago I sent a memo to my fellow Board members that I would be a few minutes late because I had an appointment with my foot doctor. The president of the Board re0lied in a nasty manner saying it was my duty to be on time. I responded that I had waited three months for the appointment and it was to have a new prescription written for Lyrica. I also pointed out I had neuropathy and this was necessary. My feet hurt from the time I get out of bed until I go sleep and still hurt. I asked him if he wanted to experience what I experience and if so I would be the balls of his feet with a tire iron for 15 minutes or so and then see how well he walked. He later apologized. For the record I have had neuropathy for 27 years and I wouldn’t wish this on anybody, surprisingly even you.

In future you might want to consider not making light of another person’s medical condition because they might make light of yours. If not, may the Flying Spaghetti Monster have mercy on us.

 

You are guessing here? Lady across the street from me moved here about 10 years ago, husband dies a year ago.

You need a new doctor

I am very concerned about Covid as I have many of the checkpoints (heart, diabetes, etc.)
Geoffrey de Villehardouin, Nov 10, 2020

Neuropathy in the feet, or peripheral neuropathy, refers to nerve damage, often causing numbness, tingling, or pain, particularly in the feet and legs. Common causes include diabetes, alcohol abuse, certain medications, and vitamin deficiencies.
Here's a more detailed explanation:

• What is it?
  Peripheral neuropathy is damage to the peripheral nerves, which are located outside the brain and spinal cord.
• Common Symptoms:
  • Numbness, tingling, or burning sensations in the feet or hands.
  • Sharp, stabbing, or shooting pains.
  • Muscle weakness.
  • Loss of balance or coordination.
  • Sensitivity to touch.
  • Foot ulcers or sores.
• Causes:
  • Diabetes: High blood sugar levels can damage nerves.
  • Alcohol abuse: Excessive alcohol consumption can lead to nerve damage.
  • Certain medications: Some medications can have side effects that damage nerves.
  • Vitamin deficiencies: Deficiencies in certain vitamins, especially B vitamins, can contribute to neuropathy.
  • Autoimmune diseases: Conditions like rheumatoid arthritis or lupus can cause nerve damage.
  • Infections: Some infections, like Lyme disease or shingles, can lead to neuropathy.
  • Injury: Trauma to the feet, ankles, or lower legs can damage nerves.
  • Hereditary conditions: Certain genetic conditions can predispose individuals to neuropathy.
• Treatment:
  • Managing underlying conditions: For example, controlling blood sugar levels in people with diabetes.
  • Pain management: Medications, physical therapy, and other therapies can help manage pain.
  • Protecting the feet: Regular foot care, wearing supportive shoes, and avoiding activities that could further injure the feet are important.
• Complications:
  • Foot ulcers: Loss of sensation can make it difficult to detect injuries, leading to ulcers that may be slow to heal.
  • Infections: Ulcers can become infected, potentially leading to serious complications.
  • Bone and joint problems: Nerve damage can affect the bones and joints in the feet and ankles.
  • Falls: Loss of balance and coordination can increase the risk of falls.

Peripheral neuropathy - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic

But hers to me are just fine, yes?