Where are the Members?

No matter what your beliefs, electronic participation is the norm today.
The RCSC is slowly (very slowly) trying to catch up but I believe they never will.
Even the RCSC has somewhat acknowledged technology by streaming meetings
and allowing people to interact. However, has there been ANY statistics that show how
many people watch the proceedings and how many interact? I haven't seen any.
There is still a question on the total number of rooftops is Sun city.
We constantly see 33,000, but how accurate is that?
Another example of how antiquated the RCSC is is how they count attendees at
board meetings and other meeting. A hand held manual clicker is used to count
attendees. Is it accurate - not hardly.

Just my opinion.

 

because of their national laws.
I truly desire our government be present and available in person. My reasons are for more face to face interaction and being available to members. Now, if we are going to be completely digital in the near future where live interaction between members and directors is as easy as dialing in on a cell phone and join a meeting and have two way interaction, then then I could support snowbirds being on the board.

My deepest apologies!

 

Carol, May I ask why you do not participate? John

 

John,
Maybe because of the personal serious medical issues she suffers from that limits mobility plus being caregiver for her husband with a serious Achilles tendon issue, like he has serious mobility issues.
D

 

I can certainly understand that but then why is she and you so involved in the bylaws?

 

John, I posted information I was able to get off of the internet. I was as upset about the rewrites as anyone else.

How does doing research on the internet and posting the results make me involved with the bylaws? I wasn’t on the committee, never said I was. Because I researched information I am now attributed to being involved with the bylaws. GIVE ME A BREAK! I tried to provide information only to be accused of having involvement?
It never ceases to amaze me how, when a person tries to help, they are accused of being something they are not. Really hurts and has me questioning my willingness to try to help with ideas or solutions any further. My integrity and honesty has always been what I considered an attribute. I apologize when I am wrong, I do everything to be above board and offer solutions that are verifiable.
I am not sorry for what I have posted but I will not be accused of being something I am not, and that is being a part of the bylaws rewrite.

 

And then you wonder why people don’t get involved? Does this feel welcoming to me? Does it read welcoming to anyone else who might read your statements? Yeah, this makes me feel warm and fuzzy and want to be more involved.

 

Carol,

My observations of your actions show you have a great deal of passion for the subject but I am wondering why. If the matter being governed, the recreation centers, is not something you or Dave use, why would you care? It boggles my mind. If the subject was SCHOA I would get it. But this is RCSC?

My question continues to be how we get people like you to want to participate in RCSC activities?

I don't have the answer.

John

 

Why would I not have a great deal of passion about the community I live in? Why would I not be interested in how the legal atrocities affect where and how I live?
You are obviously not interested in having an intelligent discussion. You would rather accuse others of being selfish and ignorant of what is happening in their community. Then take it as far as to try and defame them by accusing them of being involved with a political action taken by the board.
I served 5 years on the board. I worked with the short lived meeting space gathering. You filed a lawsuit that so many pleaded with you to pull. How do Dave and I ‘use’ being self governed? How in the hell does anyone “use” being self governed to their benefit?
Neither myself nor Dave have any government connections or commitments to the RCSC. Even if we were both currently on the board, how does one personally benefit from being self governed?
Once again, trying to deflect blame on anyone else you can, creating obscure political origins that don’t exist.

 

I suppose all of us who have posted comments about the bylaws could be considered "involvement". That term can have different applications.

 

You are correct Janet. You would not take umbrage if John wanted to know why you and Dave were involved in the self governance of the RCSC? I take the reference for just two names being taken to insinuate that the two of us are somehow doing something nefarious in relationship to self governance.
To use your example, then anyone could be referenced, it was not a comment made about any and all posters on TOSC, no, singled out 2, then attempted to make it appear as if there was a connection between the bylaws rewriting and myself. No other way to describe those words.

 

Folks,

Perhaps I am analytical to a fault. The governance provisions being debated are limited to the preservation, improvement and operation of recreational facilities. It would seem to me that the folks most interested in those provisions would be the users of those facilities. Granted, all those who pay for the facilities (i.e., members) would have an interest in the level of assessment being levied. But only a few of the comments herein are related to the assessment level or the condition of the facilities.

My motion was related to the process by which the major capital decisions should be made. The Board had bullied its way around having the LRP perform a detailed analysis and making recommendations on Quail Run and the Theater. And then it ignored recommendations made by the LRP on other projects. Finally, the board gutted the purpose of the LRP by censoring what is considered long range. This is not the first time a board has done that and at one point the LRP was disbanded.

What is curious to me is the level of intensity in scrutinizing governance of RECREATIONAL FACILITIES by those who do not use them and the level of apathy by members who do use them. Oh well...

 

So, because I don’t physically get up and use the facilities, I shouldn’t care about the governance of how they are managed, assessed and maintained? What kind of thinking is that? I don’t own any elephants but I support the efforts ongoing to prevent their extinction. I could use a million analogies but I make my point, the governance is not just about how many times someone uses the pool. It’s about how the corporation manages the business and the pool people are using. It’s about watching how the people of the community can interact and influence their own lives within the community. Where does it state that only those physically using the facilities are the only ones who should care? That is ludicrous, everyone should care, using the resources or not.
Stating that those who don’t physically utilize the facilities shouldn’t be so vocal is demeaning to all of us who support the community. If the RCSC had what I wanted as offerings I would go. But nothing I want is offered, so no need to go to any facility.
I don’t understand how you would think that because I don’t physically use any of the facilities that I shouldn’t care. You state that I shouldn’t be so vocal, therein lies the problem. Every single member should be screaming at the top of their lungs, physically utilizing facilities or not, about the atrocities committed. But there are people telling us that because we don’t go to a facility, we have no voice, we have no skin in the game. That’s why so many have given up, because people tell them their voices don’t matter, they believe the BS that gets posted on Facebook and other sites about if you don’t physically go and use the facilities, you shouldn’t care. That’s the stupidest thing said yet.

 

Neither do I but I do know that you are part of the solution or part of the landscape.
D

 

Dave and Carol,

May I ask why you don't use any facilities but choose to be hyperactive in the governance of those facilities? Here is why I ask. When I joined the Board, the fees had not been raised in over 10 years because everyone was afraid of members who did not use the facilities revolting. I talked to Kevin about it and convinced him this was not sustainable. After some changes at the top, we agreed on an open book policy. Let the members see the numbers so they would hopefully see the same need to raise the assessment. Let the committee members present the budget to other members. I hope that opened a new era of financial transparency and ended the era of deferring maintenance in order to avoid raising the fees. (i.e., letting the place slowly degrade into a slum).

I think it worked as far as maintaining the place goes. Unfortunately, it did nothing to add sanity to decisions regarding large PIF projects. SAC exposed what was going on behind the scenes at Mountainview and in my view, it was ugly and reflected the disgusting greed of one small club. It still does.

After being removed as the SAC cochair for dubious reasons and listening to Kat Fimmel publicly degrade the chairmen of the Technology committee, I had enough. Believe me there were other distasteful actions that I did not want to be a part of.

So, my concern with the board being limited to only full-time residents, many of whom do not participate in the activities offered, I think they have a strong bias for CHEAP LIVING and maybe one other activity (e.g. Golf).

 

Another eye opener, before you were on the board, was the board’s biased, Vintage Car boondoggle, Grand Center they pushed through.

 

I don’t use the facilities because they don’t offer anything that I want to participate in, plain and simple. I have repeatedly, over many years, stated what I would like to see and be able to do within the community. I also know it will never happen. The mindset is that of older activities that have been around forever. Whenever there’s mention of expanding the offerings to meet what other communities offer, I get shot down. So, rather than have expectations that Sun City will ever grow into a 21st century society with modern offerings, I just don’t participate. It’s easier to expect nothing so when you get it, you’re not surprised.

 

John,
I was formerly a golfer but a bad back, neuropathy and arthritis have played havoc with my hands plus two knee replacements and a shoulder replacement pretty much tells the story. Neuropathy in my legs precludes swimming, knees preclude running and I was formerly a runner. I have a new problem with my back which is I the process of diagnostic procedures. So I am basically a physical wreck and I am limited how far I can walk because of the neuropathy in my feet.
Consequently I have returned to my first love which is reading and second love which is cooking, which my ex wife once told me it was babe magnet.

Consequently, outside of the above I enjoy serving on two committees.

D