Where are the Members?

"Old" but "continued news". Dave certainly has a right to express his opinion as does John. If either gets old, just read over their comments. Once again, if sessions were held in open sessions, people would not have so many suspicions.

Dave was also very critical of a past Director who participated electronically when overseas. Is that why the bylaws requirement changed from being an "Arizona resident" to "being physically present for ten months a year"? What happens it they aren't?

OPEN SESSIONS FOSTER TRUST! That's my mantra, just like John's is that snowbirds should be able to serve as Directors and Dave's is a Director should be in Sun City most of the time. He also opposes participation electronically. We each have our own opinions and the right to express them.

 

Janet,
Our sole mission was revision of the bylaws. The group had absolutely no contact as to who picked up candidate packets and when. The was the bailiwick of the Corporate office as packets were picked up there, returned there and they handled verification of signatures on petitions.
D

 

Carol correctly identified the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Pitifully low participation by members. I spoke to the ASU guru that led the survey and tried to convince her to stay on to address this issue. She respectfully declined but told me that she believed that about 2/3 of the Sun City population does not participate in any RCSC activity. I am sure the reasons for this lack of participation are varied and everyone has their own opinion on why Sun City is the only 55+ community to have this dynamic. Let me offer some observations for your consideration:

1. It appears to me no one in the organization is accountable for member participation.
2. It appears to me we do not measure participation levels.
3. It appears to me the Board has stated on multiple occasions it is not responsible for member engagement.
4. It appears to me this is one reason RCSC has such pitifully low utilization rates of its facilities (20% to 30%). We are way overbuilt for the participation level we have.

I am not sure how to increase participation, but it seems to me our leaders are taking actions to discourage participation.

Thank you, Carol, for pointing this out.

 

Janet,
The 10 month residency requirement has been in effect at least since 2011 when I pulled a packet but never returned sane as I subsequently had to deal with an extremely important medical issue. I did subsequently run for election to the Board in 2012 and was elected to a 3 year term beginning in 2013. As to a former Director phoning in, not streaming, I vaguely remember that during that term but can’t remember whom it was and where they were calling from.

I don’t apologize for my stand on residency requirement as I can see how it can be abused, don’t believe our technology is sufficient to support this and I believe a Director serves best when residing in the community they serve. I believe that is called Old School.

 

I recall you criticizing, more than once, a recent Board member for participating in meetings while she was in Germany. I think you also referred to her as "Princess" because she taught in a wealthy Chicago neighborhood while her husband was in seminary.

Please reread my post. I defended your right to your opinion. If it's important to reside in the community, Directors also need to associate with a large number of residents, not just a few selected individuals of like mindedness.

 

As I seem to remember, it was done by community vote. That was then, this is now. We live in a very litigious society and to not follow the newest legal and legislative protocols could lead to greater repercussions for the community and the people who live here.
I don’t pretend to know all of the legal and regulatory hurdles that would need to be overcome, but I do believe that if there were a missing comma on a document, all heck could break out.

 

Janet,

She wasn’t participating in meetings, she and her husband were running a business there. Also, when calling in from Germany, she requested that RCSC call her line for the meeting because it was cheaper RCSC calling Deutschland from the US than her calling in from Germany.

Sorry Janet, but this is sort of thing that strengthens my resolve about the residency requirement. What next?

 

I believe that she did participate in meetings, but not always. What difference does it make if she and her husband had business dealings there? The same with John. You say he has a business in Colorado. Is it okay to be out of state on vacation, but not for business? I don't see the difference.

 

Dave,

Can you please tell me about my business in Colorado? I am unaware of it. Karen did missionary work in Germany.

And what do you add to the community?

John

 

Tax shelters, am I correct? You might do other legal stuff but not being admitted to the bar kind of limits you, like practicing in Federal Tax Court as that is specialized area of the law which requires passing an appropriate exam, Maritime law is another.

 

John,
Asking what a person adds to the community is degrading and belittling. If you have a specific question about what a particular person’s experience adds to the conversation then ask it. Otherwise, it keeps the discourse going with little value towards ending this conflict.

 

I believe that applies to ALL posters, not just John.

 

For the record I am retired and have no business in Colorado. Just children and grandchildren. Carol, I think that asking what value someone adds to the community is a very thoughtful question. For most, it could cause some reflection on what positive things they could be doing for the community. For others, it is apparently viewed as instigating a challenge with an evil purpose. May I suggest we all ask ourselves that question?

As for Dave's unfounded attack it is like water off of a duck's back for me. I sense it is the same with all the other people he attacks.

 

It was John who asked the question, hence, the reply to the person asking the question.

 

I made reference to a specific comment, that was it. There was no expansion of the topic beyond the comment made. And the continuing debate over a single question continues,
I have taken Dave to task previously about his comments on any given subject, asking what value did the controversy created add. This is my solitary issue. Not in defense of anyone’s position on a topic, rather was the comment warranted.
I leave the topic open for others and sorry to have missed the point. No insinuation of evil purposes.

 

Carol,

I ask the same question of you and of myself. For my part, I submitted many language corrections to the board for their consideration. I even suggested that if they, like you, want to make sure snowbirds can't be on the board they needed to change the membership rights language of the bylaws to so indicate. I believe the change will be made.

I will ask the same question of you - What value do you add to the community?

Respectfully,

John

 

I offer no value added to the community, as I merely live here, pay the assessment fees and go about my business. I don’t volunteer for anything, I don’t participate in any of the activities offered nor do I involve myself directly in board or community events. I hope that clarifies my value to the community.
I also want the community to grow and thrive in ways that require thinking beyond the confines of what we have now. This will require visionary leadership and the ability to be creative with our community to include and inspire. That is not currently happening.

 

John,
I will ask you to produce the source of my statement that I don’t want snowbirds on the board. You have repeatedly attributed this remark to me, and I have never stated that I have anything against anyone running for the board. Not out of town members, not part time or full time members, not any mention, by me, of any kind of membership exclusions of any kind. Yet you insist on attributing this position to me. Why? When have I ever made any kind of a statement to the effect that I have any disagreements with snowbirds? I have only stated I am not fond of the title “snowbird”. I prefer part time resident.
I will once again ask you to refrain from putting words in my mouth that I have not said. Or please provide evidence of my making such a statement.
Carole

 

Carol,

May I suggest you get involved in your community. I think you will find it very rewarding. You mentioned once that many people including yourself do not like snowbirds. I am OK with that. My own sense is that feeling, disliking snowbirds, is a competitive disadvantage for our community.

John

 

“CMartinezWell-Known Member
Is residing in Sun City 10 months out of the year preclude you from being a “snowbird”? Are we looking to include winter visitors who are only hear 6 months of the year? If so, this would allow our Canadian population to be members of the board, knowing full well that they can’t physically be present because of their national laws.
I truly desire our government be present and available in person. My reasons are for more face to face interaction and being available to members. Now, if we are going to be completely digital in the near future where live interaction between members and directors is as easy as dialing in on a cell phone and join a meeting and have two way interaction, then then I could support snowbirds being on the board.

May 9, 2025”