What’s happening with the Mountain View Center project?

Wondering what’s been happening with the Mountain View Center project?

Read the RCSC July Progress Update HERE.

 

Good to see time lines and really interesting potential with the Sept triArc meeting having live streaming and questions. That may be too aggressive to expect, but it would be interesting to see if it happens.

Let me be blunt: This process really needs to stay on track, weed out the wants from the needs and then figure out exactly what goes there and at what cost. Building costs will continue to soar and the tariffs will further impact any decisions made. We can't let that stop us moving forward, but we must be realistic about what we ultimately do at Mountain View.

I just saw the home sales for July and it was down 22 homes from 2024. That's a lot and we all know that's where the money comes from to pay for any/all of the improvements we will be doing. Lord knows what will happen if a recession hits us?

 

Interest rates too high. the Fed's primary objective in lowering interest rates is to support economic stability and prevent a recession by stimulating borrowing and spending. While recessions can sometimes follow periods of rate cuts, it's often a sign that the Fed is already reacting to a slowing economy rather than directly causing the downturn.

Credit card rates are astronomical. The Fed is not helping the economy right now. Folks are not spending money ie home sales down. Business can't expand as they could with lower interest rates.

On a separate note what you are not seeing is talk on social media. About 2 or 3 weeks ago there were several people who were thinking of buying here, but with negative comments re things happening with RCSC and crime they changed their minds. 6K is a lot to pony up to buy here.

 

I’m losing interest in this city at a rapid pace. One big reason for this is the amount of money being spent and planned to be spent on golf. I know, I can move if this is the case.
Would love to hear specific details about what is still being considered for MV . And yes, I will patiently wait till more is revealed.

 

Let me help make your day Tom (not): Apparently golfers feel they are getting screwed with recent price hikes and feel everyone else should have to pay for their activities. Nothing new there, but rumors abound that golfing board members (is that a conflict of interest?) are listening to the moaning and are considering steps to make it more fair.

I guess the 100 million dollars being shoveled into our golf courses from PIF (2000-2032) is just a freebee. The board knew in the 70's the potential for golf to become a money pit which was why when they took them they included the clause the game must be self-sustaining. It's also why since the day Sun City opened, those stepping on a golf course cost the person playing a round a fee.

Golfers may not like the fact, but it is indeed on Sun City was built and operated for 65 years. Their option was to buy in the Villages of Florida where golf is free (on the executive courses, all 47 of them), but free comes with a monthly price tag of around $200, or $2,400 a year. The good news is, every house hold pays, the bad news is, every household pays. The worse news is those executive courses are being played to death by those able to get tee times (high season). On a brighter note, their championship courses (less than 10) are pristine, and really expensive to play.

Oh yeah, the other problem with The Villages is now that the population has doubled (70,000 to 140,000 plus residents) the courses are even more crowded and the Morse family that owns them is trying to get out from under the problems they have by shifting it to the community.

Now i feel even better about living in Sun City AZ than Florida.

 

This is not a criticism at all, just a factual observation. It's difficult to accept anything you say about any other retirement community because we all know how deeply entrenched your love for Sun City is. While what you said about the Villages may be factual (I haven't researched) I would bet the residents of The Villages feel the same about their community as you do about yours. I doubt I would find anything like this on Talk of the Villages as their site is geared towards helping others, eg how to fix a golf cart, restaurant recommendations, anyone have a (specific tool) I can borrow for a week. Things like that.

 

Seniors love the Villages of Florida; that's why it is one of the fastest growing cities in the country (if not the fastest). That wasn't the point though, it was simply everywhere has their share of problems. The Villages are compounded because the Morse family is still building/selling homes, still responsible for enforcing the deed restrictions and is responsible for maintaining the amenities.

All of which is a point of contention in the community. Some residents are clamoring for the various boards take over enforcement, others want the Morse family to do a better job. Their biggest challenge will be the "free golf." One of the reasons for their success was golf, now as the grow faster than they are adding amenities it will prove very difficult to maintain.

In the end, everyone/everywhere is caught up in the current chaos and there doesn't appear to be any end in sight.

 

What chaos?

 

What do you think the current amount paid by the average homeowner at the Villages for homeowners insurance, if they can get it?

 

would the answer be the definition of chaos?

 

By pulling up a few listings of properties for sale in various Villages of Florida locations, the average amount quoted for homeowners insurance is about $160 monthly.
What’s even more astonishing is the amount paid for the homeowner association fee. The lowest for a 1 bedroom condo was $432 a month. A single family home was showing $832 a month.
That is the cost to live in the Villages of Florida.

 

There are 17 different 'communities' or 'neighborhoods' as they call them in The Villages. Each is governed by its own BOD. Costs vary by neighborhood.

 

Here's a pretty interesting article with as good a data as i've seen. I'll break it in two parts, it will give Sun City residents and TOSC residents a good idea on the differences of living here and there.

Mortgage Payment
This to me is a glaring omission from The Villages’ own monthly cost of living breakdown. I know many people pay cash for their homes, but many choose to carry a loan, even if it’s just for tax deduction reasons.

If you visit any of the available online mortgage calculators you can calculate this one using your own figures but I used a $350,000 house, with 20% down, and a 30-year fixed rate mortgage at 6% and came up with $1678 per month.

This cost alone exceeds the seemingly attractive monthly cost of living estimate provided by The Villages, but again, a lot of people buying in The Villages do pay for their homes in cash and never get a mortgage, so a mortgage payment may or may not apply to you.

Homeowners Insurance
The Villages estimate of $100/month here seems a little low, considering what is going on in the Florida insurance market. I'd put this figure at $200/month to be safe. Of course you can adjust this up or down based on how much home you intend to buy accordingly.

But, even though it likely won’t be required that you carry it, I always tell people to get flood insurance too just in case. So let’s call that an additional $400/year or about $33/month to be safe.

Amenities Fee
This one is pretty straightforward. At $199 a month currently, this covers much of what makes The Villages such a draw. Things like golf on the executive courses, swimming, tennis, organized activities, 24-hour neighborhood watch and more.

Property Taxes
The Villages estimates this at $240/month, which I would consider to be the low end for this price home. The actual taxes will depend whether you qualify for homestead, and which county it is located in.

But for a $350,000 home count on paying between $3,000 and $4,500 per year, which works out to between $250 and $375 per month.

CDD Assessments
You’ll learn more about this in my book, but you’ll likely have a CDD infrastructure assessment and a maintenance assessment. The infrastructure assessment can be paid off, and many homeowners choose to do that.

You’ll see some resales advertised with the statement “Bond paid” or “no bond”. But regardless you’ll always have the CDD maintenance assessment to contend with.

The Villages estimates this at $191, but they can range from below $100 to more than $500. Again, this is going to depend on what type of home you ultimately end up with, where its located, if the bond is paid, and so on.

Utilities
In my opinion utilities are tough enough to estimate, let alone when you estimate them individually.

You’ve got people that never set the thermostat below 80 thus they have a consistent power bill, but maybe they love their 30 minute showers leaving them with a higher water bill than others.

So for simplicity’s sake lets lump them into two groups.

For water, sewer, power, and trash collection The Villages estimates $258.

I’d go a little more conservative here and estimate $300-$350 AND add another $100-$200 if you have a pool to cover the costs of running a pool pump. Add even more if you have an electric or gas pool heater.

Basic cable is estimated at $60 by The Villages, but phone and internet are noticeably absent from their estimates.

Of course most companies will let you bundle cable, phone, and internet but if you do this, in my experience it will cost more than $60.

And of course some people may forgo a landline in lieu of using cell phones exclusively. But no matter which route you choose, I’d budget between $150 and $250 for phone, cable, and internet.

Landscaping
You might think cutting your own grass and trimming your trees and shrubs sounds like a good idea at first, but most people eventually agree its either too dang hot or they are just too dang busy to keep up with it all.

So most opt for a lawn service to come take care of it for them.

I’d estimate $50-$75/month for this amount of house.

Of course its going to depend on the size of your lot and other factors, but we’re shooting for averages here. Note that while you will get cut more in the summer and less during the winter, most services will charge you the same each month. It just helps them keep a steady cash flow and I think it helps the homeowner too so its pretty easy to remember what to pay.

Trimming of trees/shrubs is usually additional. I think if you budget $40-$50/month here you’d be pretty safe.

Pest Control
Most people, especially those coming from up north, never think of this one.

You’re going to want to have your yard sprayed for pests, as well as the inside of your home too.

Some companies recommend monthly service, others say you can get by with quarterly. In either case, expect this to set you back $80-100/month.

Termite Bond
No matter what type of home you buy, do not go without a termite bond. Count on paying at least $100-$200/yr. for this.

Exterior Maintenance
You might want to budget for having the outside of your home pressure washed once or twice a year, and painted every 5-7 years. Pressure washing will probably run $100-$200 per visit, and painting for a 1,800 sq. ft. home should be between $2,000 and $3,500.

Groceries
I’d say grocery prices in The Villages are pretty average for Florida. There’s quite a bit of choice with Publix, Winn-Dixie, Wal-Mart, etc., so the competition helps keep prices in check.

Drinks and Eating out
Same for restaurant and drink prices. There are lots of choices, and the competition keeps the prices in line. You don’t have to look too hard to find coupons and deals enticing enough for just about any budget.

BUT, because of the amount of choices, many just a short golf cart ride away, most residents find themselves eating out and/or socializing with new friends more than they ever have in the past.

So to be safe, add 20-30% on to whatever your budget is now for drinking and eating out, not because prices are higher, but because you will likely be doing it more often.

 

Here is part two and here is the link to the Article.

“Free golf for life” might just be the very thing that got your attention and attracted you to The Villages in the first place. But, it’s not quite that simple.

You do get free golf for life on the executive courses if you walk.

But, there is a small fee for golf cart rental. You can also use your own cart and pay a trail fee either daily, semi-annually, or annually.

You’ve got several options as it relates to Priority Championship Course Memberships, too many to list here. But on the high end they are currently $925 per couple (rates are less for singles) and this includes use of the Country Club pools, your executive trail fee and tennis at Hacienda Hills.

You also have to pay greens fees on top of this, though you do get a slight discount with this priority membership.

Golf cart
This will likely be one of the first purchases you make after buying your home, and many even complete this purchase BEFORE buying their home!

Prices, styles and options for golf carts are almost as varied as for homes. You can find used carts in the classifieds or in some stores for less than $2000 or you can spend more than $20,000 for a tricked-out custom cart.

The choice is yours but don’t forget to budget for this expense.

You’ll also need golf cart insurance. Like anything else its good to shop around. Ask your cart dealer or salesman for a recommendation. I’ve seen rates range between $60/year to more than $200/year.

Roadside Golf Cart Service
Like cars, golf carts get flat tires, dead batteries, etc. A couple companies in The Villages offer roadside assistance for yearly fees ranging from about $30/yr. to $60/yr. depending on the level of service you’d like.

Entertainment and Movies
You’ll never be short on entertainment options in The Villages. You’ve got nightly entertainment in the town squares which is free. There are also ticketed shows, musical acts, Polo matches, etc. with ticket prices ranging from just a few bucks to $30+ depending on the act and the venue.

At one point The Villages operated a movie theater in each town square, but for various reasons they are now down to one. Ticket prices are currently $8.50 for residents showing a resident ID.

Newspaper
The Villages Daily Sun is currently about $88/year. I say “about” because the price varies slightly based on where your home is located. While you should probably subscribe just to keep up with daily events/happenings you’re not going to see much hardcore news reporting. Because of this, many also get the Orlando Sentinel which is about $90 for 13 weeks if you want 7-day delivery. Less expensive options are available for Thursday and Sunday delivery, or Thursday through Sunday delivery.

TheVillages.net
You can get golf tee times by phone, but some want the convenience of doing it online. If that’s you, you’ll pay $8/month for TheVillages.net. This also includes 2 @thevillages.net email addresses.

VHA/POA Memberships
I’m a strong proponent of joining these two organizations. After a while you’ll notice they have different aims and viewpoints in many cases but both are worth being a member of. The Villages Homeowners Advocates (VHA) is just $25/household for 2 years, and the Property Owner's Association (POA) is $10/household for 1 year.

Housewatch service
If you’re going to be a snowbird you’ll probably want to look into a housewatch service and these range from $35-$50/month depending on the level of service you want.

Various “One-Time” Costs
A lot of people fail to consider the many “one-time” costs they might incur when first moving to The Villages. Prices vary greatly for things like adding gutters, screening in your lanai, buying new patio furniture, adding decorative curbing, interior painting, and much much more.

Resident Parker Sykes, author of 50 Things to Think About Before Moving to The Villages says that you can plan on at least $5,000 worth of this type stuff needing to be done at a minimum, and I’d agree.

Just remember to take these into account when doing your budgeting/financial planning.

What did you come up with?
When I plug in some of the numbers above into a spreadsheet, I come up with a monthly cost of living (for me) of more than $4,000.

 

Why all the interest in The Villages? Are folks planning to move there from AZ? Bill how/why did you turn a thread about Mt. View into The Villages?

 

It's always easy for those with a bone to pick over how Sun City is run to be vocal, but the reality is no matter where any of us live, there are and always will be challenges. They differ from location to location with senior communities having their own unique difficulties. Easily, the two most prominent (Sun City and The Villages of Florida) are the most often mentioned. The Villages for their size, Sun City as being the first of its kind.

Without question, what is, has and will happen at Mountain View is our most pressing issue. The board (finally) appears to be dealing with it well. The efforts and remarks have all been of a positive nature. That said, the true measure will be in the outcome and whether the membership is satisfied. That alone is a huge hill to climb, and anyone who has followed the bouncing ball, knows the final decision will not make everyone happy. It seldom if ever does.

As a way of explanation, i responded to Tom's remarks above. While it may seem off topic to you, letting members know and better yet understand how other communities function may well prove beneficial. Who knows? I know for me, the costs to live in The Villages was fascinating; i suspect others found it interesting for comparison purposes.

What is abundantly clear is it is way cheaper to live here as a self-governed community than in The Villages where the developer is still controlling how people live and what it costs. That doesn't make it better or worse, just different.

For a lot of us, we appreciate the opportunity to learn and grow. If that's not the case for you, my apologies.

 

Yes, we know it is cheaper to live here. Trying to compare the two communities is like comparing a grape to a raisin.

 

Why are you turning this Mountain View discussion into comparisons between fruits (yes, raisins are fruits for those unaware)?

Anyone interested in the differences should take a look at the costs of the author living in the Villages compared to the cost of living in Sun City. Staggering.

When factoring all of that data, it helps understand how and why the Mountain View project has been so difficult. And now with the cost for everything exploding, we need to be really cautious about over-spending. Then compound it with home sales slowing from last year (down 22 homes from July 2024), it's even more important we get it right.

I truly like and i am impressed by the path we are on at Mountain View, hopefully they stay mindful of the current inflation we are trapped in and the potential for a recession that is looming. There's a lot of pressure on the housing market right now, so everything they do has to be weighed carefully.

Stay the course, get the project design resolved, get it built and maybe by its completion the economy will be more settled.

We'll see eh?

 

Not comparing Mt. View to anything. SC AZ to The Villages FL, which you seem to like to compare, I am comparing them to a raisin and a grape. A raisin is a dried-up grape.

 

You are drifting off topic here; raisins/grapes having nothing to do with Mountain View.

On the other hand, understanding how senior communities work plays an integral role in how Mountain View plays out. For example, if the Villages wants/needs a new or rebuilt community center, that's on the developer, the Morse family. If Sun City needs to rebuild a center, that falls on each of us and the money collected at the point of sale, commonly known as the PIF.

The better versed the 32,000 plus members are the better Sun City functions. It's nice to know, TOSC has helped in a small way add to the discourse.