A great deal of discussion on this site has centered around what groups of members want versus what our portfolio of recreational facilities needs to best serve current and future members. At times it seems like folks are tap dancing on an eggshell perched atop of a pin trying desperately not to break the shell thereby infuriating one group or another. In the interest of full disclosure, I enjoy tennis, wallyball, woodworking, working on cars, golf, photography, mini-golf, the whirlpool, bowling, shuffleboard, card games, concerts, performances by performing artists, pool, darts, reading, computers, off roading, fishing, white water rafting, controlled drowning (aka swimming), the walking pool, writing, pickleball, watching football games with friends, table tennis, metal working, motorcycle riding, eating and breathing. Not necessarily in that order. The point of my disclosure is that I like certain things, and I need to be aware that this may cause me to have a confirmation bias in how I want RCSC to spend money. When I was on the board I tried very hard to keep my biases at bay. In reality, I found many on the board to be driven by their own biases to get what they wanted, and no one was paying attention to what RCSC needed or could afford. Hence, we ended up with grandiose and unaffordable plans for fulfilling the wants of the shrinking Player's club while shortchanging the needs of the growing pickleball community when planning the original Mountainview renovation. At the same time, we were not maintaining the facilities we had. I honestly believe the only way to break this cycle of greed over need is to thoroughly document and adopt an expertly prepared master plan. When Del Webb successfully developed Sun City, he had a vision and an expertly prepared data-based plan for achieving that vision. As we move forward with preserving and improving Sun City, I believe it is imperative to take the same approach Del Webb originally took; have a vision (see the recent Vision, Mission and Value Statement) and have an expert prepare a data-based plan for achieving that vision. If we continue to make ad hoc decisions for one center without considering the facilities as a whole, we will end up with an expensive mess. Similarly, if we delude ourselves into thinking we have the internal expertise to develop a successful master plan, we will end up abandoning the master plan process we so desperately need. Those are my firmly held beliefs - Any thoughts?
John, I agree that RCSC needs an expert to help it develop a long term master plan. This needs to be done with a professional consulting firm that has a team to meet with focus groups consisting of Members that use the facilities, as well as Members who don't, the Board (individually and collectively), Management, other area organizations and business leaders in SC. Then they would analyze the data and return with suggestions for RCSC to develop a Master Plan. This would be costly but obviously no more than continuing to spend money on architects over and over again. We are getting nowhere. I would suggest this needs to be done by someone in the private sector, not one from a university setting. Just my thoughts from previous experiences, Janet
A quick question, how much are this bunch on consultants going to cost to tell us what we need? I smell MBAs. Sorry John, it’s only business not personal. I see the latest edition of the SC corporate truth telling that the GM is a graduate of Harvard Business School with an MBA. How is that working out for us? I imagine there are a group of people out there in TOSC land who have string opinions. “We pay the truth tellers who tell that there is nothing as valuable as a hole in the ground.” Midnight Oil
In that you mentioned the January 2025 UPDATE we just got in the mail Dave, what the hell is a "documented process specialist?" I know, i've been retired for a long time, have no claims on any attachment to the Harvard Business school, but as i read his article, i was left scratching my head. Something i do more often BTW. Someone help me out here?
Bill, I am an MBA type and fully trained in many of the disciplines so I will give it a guess. A document process specialist appears to be someone who flowcharts the steps and describes the steps in any repetitive process. We used the process documentation process to meet Sarbanes Oxly internal controls requirements, the manufacturing environment, the space and defense environment and the process improvement undertakings. It is rarely used in the hospitality industry or the repair and maintenance industry. Matthew was for a while a GM industrial engineer, so my guess is this is where the buzzwords emanate from. John
Dave, I am certain they would charge much less than a team of architects designing and redesigning and redesigning amenities most members could care less about. They are typically urban planning types and not MBA's. Gary has identified the consultant who did Wickenburg's P&R master plan. He is also consulting with SCW as they seem to be grappling with the same what do we do next issue. John
That would have been my guess John and based on his work history it would have made sense for GM to incorporate it into their repetitive nature of the jobs they performed (although robotics had to solve most of those issues). I was surprised to see it used in as you said, basically a hospitality/service industry setting. What was truly strange to me was the article and how it read. I'm pretty down to earth and straight forward in what i write and i as i read the article all i could think of was; "say what?" Then it got more weird when i read this opening sentence in the third paragraph: " IPE was kick started last spring with the help of renowned quality guru John Cachat." Who knew we had used a "guru" in getting this all started? I noted you have recommended hiring an outside consultant for helping us find our way. I'm not opposed, not even a little. The good news is consultants come and go, employees tend to be forever. Not to be unkind here, but running the rec centers isn't/shouldn't be rocket science. I'm all for efficiency experts helping us in those rare areas where we may be struggling, but adding boatloads of new (and expensive) levels of management strikes me as odd.
Someone who has been following the recent actions of the Board please chime in here: I am under the impression that the Board "thinks" we vocal Members have asked for a Master Plan for Lakeview only. That is the impression that I got. However, I think that most of the vocal Members want a Master Plan of the WHOLE COMMUNITY. Definitely two different items. That's why the Board moved and approved the line-item Lakeview Renovation Initial Design which is slated in the year 2028 to year 2025. IMHO, this is not the answer. IMHO, doing a master plan just for Lakeview and not in conjunction with all the RCSC campuses would not be beneficial to the Members or the community. If I've heard Board members correctly, they admonish us vocal Members that a Master Plan is going to cost a horrendous amount of money and take years. My take on that is, "so what's your point?" It should if you want to do it correctly. Yes, Mountain View needs work NOW. Find a way (using utilization numbers of both flat floor space and empty space) to pacify the Performing Arts Club while doing the Master Community Plan. The plan may take years but may bring to light that future Members of the community do not see a need for a center. A flat floor space that holds retractable seating should help the angst of the Players Club until the completed COMMUNITY MASTER PLAN is completed.
Agreed. And let's not spend any additional dollars on another ASU survey of 60-70-& 80 year olds asking them what THEY want! They still want Guy Lombardo and the Rolling Stones. That does nothing for the future residents of Sun City. Let's spend the dollars where they can actually do good. I would agree with John on a Master Plan as well as Board training! The hard part is getting a dysfunctional Board to admit that they need help and actually doing something about it! It seems that when some Directors get elected to the Board they also think they now also became smarter and know better than everybody else? Just my opinion!
When writing anything, the author needs to consider the "audience" of who will be reading it. Certainly, the general population has no idea of what a "documented process specialist" is! Therefore the author needs to use more general terminology. Otherwise they lose their readers and people have the opportunity to make fun of the author.
I think the Board/Finance Committee understand that the members are asking for a complete RCSC master plan. When the motion was made to move forward $1M to begin planning for LV, there was discussion of creating a complete "site plan" for LV only. There has also been plenty of member discussion at the Exchange and on social media that numerous Board and various committee members (and probably staff) monitor. Finance and the Five Year Planning Team had discussions about cost. To my knowledge this is not a "dead" issue and it's not going away. As I posted on a social media site earlier today - it's time to make some serious decisions and move forward and stop bickering over what was and decide what the future is going to be. It's a new year. There are new opportunities. Like several of you on this site, I have several priorities: 1. Decide once and for all what is going to happen with MV - an architect has been hired, they are performing the structural/engineering review of the building which should determine the best solution (retrofit or rebuild) and let's get it done. Phase I has 4 centers and every center does not require a duplicate of every single amenity. Let's face it - RCSC and its members can't afford it and we don't NEED it. In this decision, decide once and for all - is a PAC going to be here or not and live with it. It seems this decision may have already been made and the controvery still rages, but decide and move on. Or, make a decision IF RCSC even has one (I'm not saying we do or we don't - but move on). 2. Decide that RCSC is going to do a Master Plan for the remaining RCSC properties because we know MV needs to be done. A Master Plan will likely take at least 18 months (or more to complete). Commit to the funding. RCSC has "found" funding for various projects in the past - the Master Plan is critical to our futuure. Get it done. 3. Professional Board Training should be a pirority, plus joining at least one professional organization. The fact that this has not been done is not only frustrating, but it does not begin to meet any best practice model. We can not expect Board members to know everything about Board responsibilities and organizational management, especially in such a comlex environment. I don't know, or understand, why this is not standard operating procedure. In my past experience, the CEO (or GM) always made sure that there was annual 3rd party training for Board members as well as a comprehensive orientation program. Guidance comes from the top. Board members typically don't have the experience or knowledge to know where to even begin to look for those resources - it's not the GMs responsibility to train them, but I believe it is his/her responsbility to guide them to proper resources. It's in the orignaizations best interests. RCSC has done several things right in the past 12-18 moths: the five-year budget process, the Long Range Planning Committee process for how new projects are added to the PIF schedule, the creation of the CIF so that capital projects are adequately funded are all major steps. Creating a Master Plan is the final piece to the puzzle. It creates the roadmap to guide future Boards and standing committeess in making decisions. There are always going to be unforeseen circumstances, but these changes provide a strong basis for decision making and forecasting. I neglected to include the completed reserve study, which is also a major accomplishment and critical to the budgeting process and forecasting and/or adjusting futurue expenditurues. Just because a piece of equipment may have a life expentency of "x" number of years doesn't necessarily mean it's so - some outlive that estimate by many years and some don't make it. RCSC has a lot on its plate. That's not going to change. It's time to be proactive, not reactive. There are many positive things that have happened - and yes, there were too many missteps last year. But let's move forward. My 2 cents for the new year. [/QUOTE]
I have a question. Sun Health and Sun Health Foundation were both non-profits, however the people who ran it were employees getting paid a very handsome salary. All C-Suite employees belonged to many professional organizations; Rotary is one that comes to mind. The difference was this was their job. They got paid to go the extra mile, work the extra hours. People who come here to live are either fully retired having worked hard all their lives, or still working part time so they could donate a little time or people who are still working full time. Many in their mid 70's are still working. Then snowbirds are not allowed to serve on the BOD. My question is how can you expect people in these 3 categories of life to do all you want them to do for nothing and still have time to enjoy whatever time they have left on this earth? As Tom M has said several times the BOD should not have to sit in on committee meetings. That's what the committee chairs are for, to report to the board. This is a residential community. RCSC may be a business but that doesn't mean people who move here want to "work" anymore, especially with no pay. People are not wired that way. All our lives we work hard to "retire". There are some that thrive on continuing to work, some that want to give to the community, some that like the power of being on a board, who knows what the reasons are, but I would like to see some stats of how many of our residents want to be on the BOD. IMO you are expecting too much from too little people, and just like any "job" that causes burnout, tension, health issues and on. Just my 2 cents. Ready----Aim----FIRE!
Josie, you were doing so good on a normal post that I decided to answer you. Then you added, "Let the stabbing begin" which disappeared before I had a chance to comment and you changed it to "Ready...Aim...FIRE!" There is no need to say those things. When your post is not full of vitroil, I (and maybe others) will chime in. I, too, have wondered about a paid Board to run things here. Like you state, the days of volunteering seem to be gone. More people who move here are still working. And either we haven't been doing a very good job emphasizing that we are a community that needs its volunteers, or no one cares. I suspect the latter. "I just want to have fun." I have no idea how a paid Board would work; I'm no expert at any of this but do think this community needs to change. It seems to me that if the head honchos had a stake ($$$) in the outcomes of decisions made, there would be more thought behind them.
The ready aim fire is because that's what you all do. I felt there was a need so do not tell me how I can or cannot feel. I have said the very same thing so many times but because the Great OZ has minions, I can't win no matter what I say. Go ahead Jean, do a search. You might be surprised. You start out nice then demean me, again. I worked in that situation for 17 years. When your post is not full of vitroil, I (and maybe others) will chime in. I don't care if you do or don't. I did a search for you. The first I mentioned this (March 2024) and even Tom M was snarky until he found out I was a Republican. I cannot believe so many look to one person for assurance. That first post to me to follow. It Will Never Be Easy Running A Community... | Talk of Sun City
There's actually a board member who is out there telling us all, wants and needs are one in the same. I guess that may well be the single best argument for an aggressive education process for board members eh?
I truly hope that maybe our board does read some of the comments here. I also hope if professionals come in, I hope some conversations about repurposing buildings come up. I hope they do a community wide master plan with a view of all our amenities and the big picture before doing tear downs and throwing up new facades. It could be still, SunDial maybe could get repurposed, Bell in some areas could be repurposed. I appreciate all the good points that have been made. I just hope someone on our board actually is looking at these posts.
