The QUESTION?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, May 11, 2022.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Following the second member/board exchange meeting the other day (May 9), those walking out of the room should be scratching their heads and asking this one question. I know i was, did and still am. "Who should decide what Sun City is?"

    Let's recap; at the first member/board exchange, a suggestion was made to change the electronic marque signs in front of rec centers to read: Sun City, The City Of Volunteers." They currently state, "Sun City The Original Fun City." That change came about in 2012 when the general manager felt it was important to rebrand the community. We heard the reason was buyers wouldn't want to come here if they had to volunteer.

    As you are reading this, my best guess is many of you are saying, "who really cares," or "does it really make a difference?" And from a practical standpoint, it's not life and death. However it is a question that goes to the very heart of Sun City. More importantly, who owns it? Who runs it?

    This is where everything breaks down for me. Historically we know John Meeker worked tirelessly to build a sense of community, of ownership and of commitment. We know when DEVCO left in 1978, the membership embraced those obligations in ways few would understand or comprehend.

    If you think not, simply read our Articles of Incorporation, they've stayed pretty much intact. To change them would take a vote of the membership and this past 15 years, those running the community have "fixed" their bylaws to achieve their end game. Even to the point of the writing them to be in conflict with the Articles.

    At the meeting we heard the new general manager, apparently in consort with the board tell us they were unwilling to return to "Sun City, The City Of Volunteers." We heard about some effort to capture, recover or turn to Arizona State University (ASU), to help us figure out what is best for us.

    It's the kind of answer we get when they don't want to deal with an issue. It's the kind of answer we get when they are worried the newly retired general manager may be angry about the change. It's the kind of answer we get when the board doesn't have the balls to deal with a very simple issue.

    People wonder why i get pissy about where we have gone as a community. It's because it is a complete turn about on how we were built and why we were successful. For 50 plus years, the community made those critical decisions. Everyone involved trusted the membership to make the right choices. They didn't let one person decide on the direction we were going in.

    Each and every day, i watch us slip further down the rabbit hole. I watch as the hired help (sorry Rich, that's what they are), many of them not living in Sun City deciding our future. Making choices that frankly, are well above what they are capable of. I'll be happy to innumerate them as this thread unfolds.

    Let me be very clear to the board and to management: If you think i am blowing smoke up your ass; if you think i don't know what i am talking about; if you think the Sun City Advocates are only a small minority of the membership; i have a proposal for you.

    Let's take a step back and let the membership decide. Let's put the question in front of the membership with a ballot, one question, two choices. "Sun City, City of Volunteers." Sun City, The Original Fun City." I'll live with the decision and in fact if i'm wrong i'll quit fighting for a return to those values and tenets Sun City was built under if they opt for "The Original Sun City."

    I actually believe in the community to make the choice. I'm not afraid of it, are you? Seems to me letting the owners decide what they want is just common sense. See how freaking easy this could be.
     
  2. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    It seems that I've complained about the signage that was placed at the entrances to Sun City by the RCSC/MCDOT since they first went up years ago. It was such a good feeling to see the present signage installed which reflects the unincorporated area of Sun City SEPARATE from the umbrella of the RCSC. My primary objection was these RCSC slogan signs were installed by MCDOT not on the grounds of RCSC property, but on land situated on property in Maricopa County's right of ways.

    As far as the electronic marquees or any RCSC materials using the slogan "The Original Fun City", let them have their way. They are a corporation trying to promote a product and felt they could just do what they want. If it works, great. How about Sunland or Menke Mortuary putting up marquees saying "Sun City: A great place to die." Ugh. But as a private company they can advertise how they wish. I did like the suggestion that was made to change the wording on the RCSC's marquees to something like "The RCSC: A place to have fun." or "The RCSC: Have fun with us!". There are ways to keep the intent but not infer that the RCSC is what Sun City is.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
    suncityjack likes this.
  3. jeb

    jeb Member

    What gets me aggie - and please someone correct me if I'm wrong - but it's not "their" corporation or private company - it's "OURS". We are the owners (small "o"), shareholders (small "s"), 100 % of the benefactors (money in) and 100% of the beneficiaries (money out). We are not guests, or cardholders - we are Members with voting rights.
     
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  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Fair comments aggie and if the RCSC was just a corporation trying to promote their business we would have no argument. In fact, you made my point; we've been so conditioned to them just doing whatever they want to do we should just sit meekly in the corner and accept it. Hell, put that question on a ballot and let the membership decide. Here let me shape the ballot for them:

    Two Questions, one answer please (check the one you believe is true):
    a). The RCSC is a corporation who has the right to do whatever they please whenever they please and they have no obligation to care what the members want,say or think.
    b). The RCSC is actually obligated to follow their Articles of Incorporation in that exist to serve the membership.

    Easy eh? If a) is the answer the community gives i'll never write another word about the RCSC. I can't be more reasonable than that.
     
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  5. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Seems like every knows this except them?

    They don't follow Robert's Rules of Order or even their own bylaws. What makes anybody think they care about the Articles of Incorporation or Arizona Revised Statutes?
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  6. suncityjack

    suncityjack Active Member

    Slight aside re: the signs and logo. Noticed RCSC doesn't seem in any hurry to change from the faded blue and yellow redesigned sort-of-a-sun-but-who really knows abstraction back to the vibrant orange active swirly sun we had--all communications I receive from them still have the faded one....Also, I rem. that the reason we were told we had to get rid of the old lively orangey one was that Del Webb company said we couldn't use it anymore, which always seemed fishy to me, more so now that it's back....Can anyone shed any light on that?
     
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  7. Nia N Maxwell

    Nia N Maxwell New Member

    Good question. I have always loved the lively orange swirly one.
     
  8. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I was on the RCSC board when that happened and we were "told" DEVCO wouldn't approve use of the swirl which prompted her to rebrand the community with the slogan; "Sun City, the original fun city." Oddly two years earlier i had worked closely with the Pulte Corporation to rename the museum and they bent over backwards to help us. So much so they built the signage out front with the logo and the name Del Webb Sun Cities Museum, paying for everything including all of the permitting applications.

    When the county swapped out the signs with the City Of Volunteers, they must have been told the same thing; they wouldn't replace them until they got a letter stating the old logo (swirl), could be used. Without calling anyone a liar, i will just tell you, we were told a lot of things; seldom shown anything.
     
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  9. suncityjack

    suncityjack Active Member

    That's pretty much what I thought re: the way the swirl logo and volunteer slogan were removed and the new logo adopted, so thanks for 'splaining it and adding the part about the county which adds credence too. So, guess RCSC will stick with the faded blue and the "fun city" logo on electronic signs and all things RCSC, and "City of Volunteers" is only on county signs. Nothing like confusing things and perpetuating a we/them, residents/RCSC divisiveness.
    The 5/18/22 Independent article which says RCSC board president Dale Lehrer foresees no change since "'City of volunteers' was not as appealing to younger prospective residents looking for an active lifestyle and fun." Well, how's that working out for us? Luring in people who just want to have fun and have it at bargain rates doth not a solid sustainable community make. For Sun City to prosper they should be making a concerted effort to encourage people for which volunteering is a way of life, retired educators, Peace Corps workers, etc., not frat boys and party girls. And here's a thought: why is RCSC so preoccupied with bringing in new residents--aren't they supposed to be concentrating on bettering the experiences of those of us already here?
     
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  10. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    They took us exactly where they wanted us to go, away from our roots, from the tenets that made Sun City different, unique from all the others. It wasn't an accident, it was an intentional move and why history became meaningless from the RCSC's perspective. The less we know about how we were built, why we were successful, the less those moving here felt inclined to commit to volunteering.

    Makes no matter to the RCSC, they have all the money; along with it, they wanted total and complete control. Think not? Stripping members of their rights given in the documents wasn't an accident. Reducing communication wasn't an accident. Reducing the number of meetings wasn't an accident. Eliminating valuable committees and paying no attention to the ones that stayed around wasn't an accident.

    Everything they did was pointed towards becoming what every other age restricted community was. The problem of course was/is with all of the other organizations that made Sun City unique, they all suffered from the lack of volunteers, the lack of involvement and investment into the ownership mentality. Over the years, Sun City was successful because of those living here, not in spite of them. Reducing the membership to card holders was a fool's game, unless all you wanted was their money.
     
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