The Players: PAC Update

Hmmm? But is 9M even realistic when you consider it cost over 4M just to build a golf course maintenance building?

 

I get what you’re saying. Do I hear cost overruns? Yes, but not $20,000,000 worth.

 

But they already amended the original motion that increased the total cost of the entire project by 1M.

Just wondering how many more times the original, voted on total cost, will need to be amended because you know there will be more hidden costs and wants!

Once the project is started there's no turning back, just like the repairs to the lake went from 6M to 8M!

 

I think that is a good question for the Board. IMHO Triarc and the board are playing games with the cost. I saw $12M on Triarcs poster board for the construction of the theater (without design, furniture, site work and av equipment) and yet Tom thinks he saw $9M. Members need to know.

The lake repairs went from $2M to 8M.

 

Carol,

I would never put anything out there as the only option. There are many options, but the members have been told there is only one. If only members were allowed to be told there are several options. YOUR OPTION IS CERTAINLY ONE OF THEM.

The Board has led you into what we used to call the kill zone. Get your opposition fighting against each other and then pick them off one by one. Their power relies on being able sow the seeds of discord among those that disagree.

As you have proven, the kill zone strategy works.

John

 

Keep your dime store psychology to yourself. There has been enough divergence of idea sharing yet nothing changes. The reality is there is a need for meaningful membership involvement that is not happening. It is not being encouraged by the board and the members have no idea how much is going on with the money being spent. Trying to sound the alarm before it gets to out of hand is a cry in the dark for now. There are a few who care and are trying desperately to find answers.
I asked before and I received no response. Have you done anything to move forward with a complaint with the AG office? Accused of many crimes but I have committed none. The kill zone analogy was not warranted. Because I questioned your earlier statement doesn’t mean I am not interested, rather why you made the statement in the context you did. Now, your response is clearly intended to inflame and provoke, yet you would put that on me?

 

John,
The $2M was for another attempt to plug up the leak in the lake. The $8M figure represents a total redo. I kept asking the GM for years why not do a total redo only this time bond the job. The logic of saving the bond cost of about $5k the first time, cost us $8M the second time.
The answer given me for not redoing the first time was the smell from silt on the bottom and people living on the lake would not like it. This is the logic I had do deal with while on the board the first time not including crappy financial statement along with the “Brigadoon money” which was the infamous cash carry forward money. All this told me that I was not dealing with a serious person.
D

 

Carol and Dave,

I used to love going into Woolworths five and dime store. Bitterness gets us nowhere so I will not participate in it.

On the AG front, I have drafted a complaint but am still considering whether to file it. Ideally filing a complaint would change the board's behavior towards the corporation's members. Conversely, it could cause an ugly public fight. There is also the prospect it would not be heard. That is as far as I have gotten in my thinking.

John

 

Splitting hairs here, but I do believe the 2M figure was way back when Jan Ek was GM and they decided to do noting. The 6M was the original quote when the RCSC finally decided to actually take action that ended-up needing Board approval to increase the PIF budget to 8M!

 

You are correct as to Jan not doing anything. As a matter of fact she was trying to use the leaking water as an argument to the AZ water people that it was replenishing the aquafier and had me do legal research on this argument. I couldn’t find anything relating to the topic and told her if it went to administrative hearing or court it would be what is called a case of First Impression. Even Heiten agreed with me. As far as I know that path was not taken for a few years.
My understanding on the $6M figure was RCSC’s estimate on the job. None of the bids were for $6M, they were much higher causing the RCSC to take the lowest bidder which was the $8M figure. The rest is history.

 

John,
Thank you for your due diligence in considering the potential outcome of filing with the AG’s office.
The concern for creating a public fiasco may be a desired outcome? This could create the impetus for dialogue about the proposed changes that have occurred.
My example would be this: this morning a contractor who owns several properties in Sun City was making remarks about home inspections and drones. He stated there are no restrictions on drones and advised that there are now. He asked when changes came about and when. I advised him about the bylaws rewriting and he stated they can’t do that without membership being notified. I relayed what has happened and when and he said he may need to think about a suit.
Filling the form with the AG is doing a public service as far as I can tell. It could help make the community aware of everything that needs attention.
No, not an emotional response, a fact based statement.

 

Tom,
You are being disingenuous with the lake as you give the impression that the cost went from $6M to $8M while the project was underway. I explained earlier that the increase was due to the bids. This is how you operate by saying half truths even with the theater you are going with hidden costa and wants. You do not know this and it’s not from your extensive experience with heavy construction, it’s just part of the BS you spread here and I do not mind calling you out on this. Stick to Robert’s since apparently the only thing you are truthful about mostly.

 

I am not against the MV redo. We needed to do it. It is going to get done and hopefully help give the south end a property boost which they needed. We need to move on, and also anyone living in MV area, you should really concentrate on improving your properties. Of course I feel this way about everyone living in SC. I am seeing too many dilapidated, negligent and simply dumpy looking homes all over SC. Homeowners could be doing so much better. Don't you all realize that your home is your #1 asset for the most part. I truly wish folks would take more pride in there homes.. Again, taking care of homes, having nice amenities mean cash buyers coming into Sun City, bringing new money and that is what is going to help us the most. You have to have nice properties to get serious buyers!

 

To be clear, I never said the cause of the increased happened while the project was underway, I only stated that the cost of the project had increased.

As I remember it, the PIF budget was approved for 6M then Bill Cook came back asking the budget to be increased to 8M.

If you read my comments any differently, then that's on you and your continual effort to tell everybody they're always wrong.

 

Eileen,
As the properties age, so do the owners. The physical ability to manage and maintain the property becomes more difficult. The area around MV has the country club with a few nice properties, but there are many more twin homes within the immediate area. Duplexes normally don’t inspire a lot of buying into a particular area. The renovation of MV will be most beneficial to those living in the area, but I don’t feel it will cause a great surge in home sales. I am also not hopeful the remodel will be much help to the community, as so many of the properties in Sun City are being purchased by investors who either flip the property or turn it into a rental property. The amount of rental properties I believe I read is up to 28%. With that staggering number of homes not being owner occupied, there is less owner buy in into being vested in the community.
The only way to stop the market from continuing down this path is to place a moratorium and that would be an impossible task.

 

Dave, please retract and apologize for your attack on Tom. The budget for the lake increased for a number of factors that should have been anticipated at the beginning but were not. We did not do adequate due diligence on the front end.

IMHO this is the same scenario with MV. For all the time we spent debating the vast majority of the discussion was by the Players to have their theater built. We never considered alternatives, costs and benefits, projected usage, highest and best use of the property, etc. etc. IMHO the Players successfully blocked those discussions from ever happening.

I continue to be against building a small special purpose theater to IMHO pamper the Players.

 

Hi Carole,
I do agree with some things you've said, but it is still a good idea to have owners focus on improvement of properties. I do see positive things for the MV neighborhood when the new center comes in. It will attract new buyers and that is what we need here more buyers less rentals.

 

John, as to your first sentence, no.
I doubt you resided here when the lake was lined and the problem began. Aside from the fact that the GM pussyfooted around for several years before actually doing something, enlighten me as to the number of factors you are talking about that increased the cost besides delay and gum and baling wire solutions that never worked. Please don’t burden me with data points, business case analysis or anything that muddies up the water (no pun intended). The friggin lake leaked and the only way to stop it was to do a complete tear out and replacement. I knew that from the very beginning but, like you who believe that I am some sort of mental midget when it comes to construction projects. I was ignored for 3 years on the Board and at least one when I was off. Turns out I was correct but I know you will never admit that.

The players rejected Sundial over ten years ago complaining how everything no matter what was deficient before or after any drawings, they wanted MV. That is when my thinking went from skeptical to you can kiss my honky white…….. The ensuing years have done nothing to change my opinion. This project is like the monster movies I watched in my younger years, no matter what you try to kill it, nothing ever works.

John,

Here is my offer, I will retract my comments on Tom when he retracts his getting me banned from the blog The Lone Cactus while I was in the hospital in a medically induced coma. Just showing what a class act he can be and he is”without clean hands.” I’ll be waiting right here.

 

Dave,

It appears you feel as though your views have not been taken as seriously as you think they should be. And you and Tom have a history of hostility. These could be erroneous conclusions on my part. Nevertheless, I am asking folks to find peace in their heart and love for their community.

John

 

If you think I had anything to do with getting you kicked-off of that blog you're once again badly mistaken. I wish I had that much influence.

In fact, I had no idea who "snarkyhistorian" even was!

Congratulations. You being kicked-off of that blog was by your own doing, not mine!

With that said, I won't be holding my breath waiting for an apology from you.