"The Inmates Want To Run The Institution."

These aren't my words, and frankly i was so appalled by them, my initial reaction was not to pile on and create a dedicated thread to the foolish utterance. I can't begin to picture any board members spouting this, but sadly we know the remark was made by a former board member and a member who has served on not one but two efforts to rewrite the bylaws.

The tipping point was this morning when i woke and read this remark by the same self-proclaimed genius (sorry Carole he has told us so too many times to ignore): "You may not believe but my first loyalty, other than to (name withheld), is to this community which I love and I want to guard from self serving clowns, hustlers bs artists."

There it is in all its majesty; the members are viewed as "inmates" and those speaking out are "self-serving clowns, hustlers and BS artists." Since the release of the bylaws, several of us have been asking for the logic of taking away member rights as provided for in the Articles of Incorporation?

We know the four board members involved in the rewrite would not speak out on social media, standard practice is to avoid saying anything online. It's pretty clear, the other members selected to be part of the working group, haven't voiced their opinions.

So, the question is: Was this former board member/bylaw working group member speaking for the whole of the group, or were these foolish thoughts just his own usual nonsense? Deeper yet: Were these remarks the basis for the ridiculous nature of the proposals we will be talking about?

Obviously that matters. If in fact the working group saw us as "inmates," and if in fact the board felt those of us advocating for more member involvement (not less) were nothing more than "self-serving clowns, hustlers and BS artists," we have very little to talk about in the two town hall sessions.

I watched the Exchange meeting yesterday and the budget meeting in the afternoon online. I noted, the room on both occasions was near-on empty (20 per session?). Their argument will be everyone is happy and contented. We know from our history when the members quit coming, the board just does as it pleases.

Ultimately, when members quit coming it leads anyone interested to see the other side of the coin; we just stopped caring.

 

The official count by the staff was 31! Still an extremely poor showing.

I'm still very much bothered by the fact that 4 Directors were involved. One more Director vote and those bylaws get approved as they are, and I can only assume that those Directors will not be condemning their own work? We'll see!

 

The official count needs to include those live steaming. There were 28 viewing at both the Exchange and Budget Town Hall.
A dismal total of 51.

 

If so few people cared about the Exchange and Budget, I can hardly imagine how few will give a crap about the Bylaws?

 

The falling apart of member engagement and caring has reached the critical level of not caring. I think the members feel they live here, no one cares, so why bother.
I can’t tell you how critical having a community newspaper is to outreach. Members don’t know that there is a network of information on the RCSC site. Why? No one to tell them!
My husband waits for the mailed copy of the free local paper. He almost meets the mailman at the box to get the newspaper. I am telling you folks once again, the local newspaper has such a draw and has local information about events, this is the best tool for information to get out to the public. They do read it and it does have an impact. If no print media how is the community to know? Include the website address so people know it’s there.

 

Bill,

After you get over your shade, you have never really articulated what rights you want members to in the operation of SC. Obviously the members are key to renewal of insurance as we recommend the coverages and premium each year. We certainly play a big part in the annual budget, review of capital improvements for the coming year, the five year plan which is also know as part of the reserve study and PIF projects as they progress or start/completed. Obviously the two most important committees here.
So maybe you can enlighten me that the insurance committee approves nearly $2M of the operating expenses and there are only three members on the committee and absolutely no visitors during the process. Where are you, Tom and the rest of the concerned citizens you harp about? Hmmmmmmm? So you know little or nothing about insurance which keeps you away? Our brokers distribute spread sheets each March (first meeting) outlining coverages, layers current premium and possible projections for the next year. You may not like this next part, but if visitors have questions, either the committee or the brokers are happy to answer them as it shows them your interest in the community.

Speaking of the budget committee, I would presume you watched the presentation from yesterday’s town hall beyond the number of people who showed up. If you had your big view thinking cap on, possibilities for member efforts screamed out you just had to see them, especially if you want to partner with the RCSC. So the question is, do have the vision of Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg or Stevie Wonder?

 

As I have stated repeatedly in the past the key to "a vibrant community" is engaged members. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard RCSC and the Board referred to as "them" by members. They don't listen, they don't care, they are going to do whatever the heck they want to... Moreover, from the other side of the Aisle I have heard members are crazies, inmates, member engagement is not my problem... So, they must be instructed on how to be nice people and punished if they are not.

I have the good fortune of having friends from back home and elsewhere that live in Sun City. This group kind of arranges its own events and skips most of the RCSC stuff. In talking to another friend, they like wise have the same situation. For us, Sun City is OK because we are not part of the "Sun City" that the person who repeatedly attacks Bill is.

IMHO Sun City is in a period of rapid decline because members do not want to be involved in the toxicity that is Sun City. Moreover, as the person who attacked Bill and FYI and countless others noted the Board does not want the members to be involved because they are crazy (and they may not agree with the Board's agenda). RCSC reluctantly does what is minimally required to give members a voice (e.g. Exchange meetings) but the Board President is always quick to note there is limited time so please keep your comments to a minimum.

Hence, "we" have the worst member participation of any 55+ community and are currently ranked by some as the worst Phoenix suburb even though we are not a city. I would be interested in a one question survey of members. The question would be "Are you proud to be a Sun City resident?".

 

Where did the information come from that Sun City is the "55+ community and are currently ranked by some as the worst Phoenix suburb even though we are not a city"? What resources are you using for this factoid please? Who are the "some" doing the ranking please, looking for refernces please.

 

Not to be unkind Dave, but what the flock are you babbling on about? Never mind really, because your inability to communicate in any meaningful discussion quickly becomes apparent the moment your fingers touch the keyboard. My remarks to you and every other reader were straight up and abundantly clear.

Accusing the members of being “inmates wanting to run the institution,”was ugly as a stand-alone but compounding it by calling those who get involved “self-serving clowns, hustlers and BS artists” was over the top. With that attitude you should never be allowed anywhere near an RCSC committee or working group.

That was not sarcasm you displayed Dave, that just reflects poorly on you and drags anyone and everyone else down as you shove your ignorant and abhorrent views regarding the membership down their throats. I guess the good news is you have provided me with my questions and talking points for the bylaws town hall sessions. It won’t be pretty.

I guess it should come as no surprise the bylaws turned out the way they did. Especially if your characterizations of the membership are representative of how the rest of the working group feels about the members. While I was disappointed by the product produced regarding the bylaws, I am simply disgusted by your callous remarks about members.

For the record, Tom has been calling for the RCSC to detail the meaning of the “business affairs of the corporation” for years now. It makes perfect sense to prevent members from presenting motions regarding bylaws that impact the financial stability of the Organization. On the other hand allowing members input into the non- financial governance portions of the bylaws (for example, who can be eligible to run for the board) seems like an easy option for members to decide upon.

It is disturbing, the section regarding the business affairs of the corporation; it covers virtually everything and anything. Then to compound it, they added the language that in case they missed anything, they can claim that as well. And then for shits and giggles they’ll send it off for a review to bless their findings. And If all that fails, they want members to submit their motions before the end of September so they can schedule some strange sort of unspecified member ratification before the membership meeting in March of the next year.

One could not make this kind of gibberish up; yet that’s what we have before us.

The whole point in the Articles of Incorporation in allowing members the ability to override the board regarding the bylaws was to make them stakeholders in the process of self-governance. When there was a partnership between the board and the members, Sun City was a far more user friendly community.

It wasn’t until the quorum changed, membership meetings became non-existent, committees were neutered and it all turned to crap. If memory serves me, you (as were Carole and I) on the board for some of it. In fact, it seems to me you served on the budget and finance committee all those years as we fell behind on the preventative maintenance, the huge secret carry forward fund was finally revealed and the absolute and total collapse of our technology was exposed. Good job buddy.

Sadly, that’s what happens when members are kicked to the curb. When they are nurtured and encouraged to be a part of the process of self-governance the community is better off. When they are pushed away, we get exactly where we are today; playing catch up and telling the members the board will take care of it all. Don’t worry, be happy.

Historically that has proven to be folly. So no Dave, I won’t be holding my breath, I can see clearly where this is headed. A board of nine will never be better than a community filled with engaged members and helping them take ownership. Of course in your case Dave, you just see them as “self-serving clowns, hustlers and BS artists.”

 

Lol! Bill, what kind of response did you expect?

You should know by now, the only responses you ever get from Dave are questions about your intelligence, being called names, and him spewing his lifelong career achievements and telling us how smart he is.

He's not worth the time it takes to respond to his remarks.

The man is incapable of holding a respectful dialogue.

 

Sun City, AZ Ranked Worst
Sun City, Arizona, has been ranked among the worst small towns in the U.S. according to WalletHub's 2025 study.

 

Wallet Hub is a marketing group with a particular profit interest in mind. It’s rated 3.5 out of 5 stars. Not an industry leading standard. The website is not well received by many users, but this was an op-ed piece carried to many users on Facebook. So one mediocre marketing group, mentions the “town” of Sun City in a non favorable way and you feel this is fodder for repeated references? The town. What town would that be? What other media references are there about how poor Sun City is as a place to live? You used the word “some” as in more than one.

 

Also featured article in the AZ Republic,
Tiffany Acosta, Arizona Republic
Wednesday, October 8, 2025
This Arizona city was named among the worst in US. And it's not alone
A new WalletHub study took a deep dive into small-town living across the United States, and Arizona didn’t exactly come out on top.

• A WalletHub study ranked 1,318 small U.S. cities based on livability factors like safety and housing costs.
• Several Arizona cities ranked poorly, with Sun City and Bullhead City placing in the bottom third percentile.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/ent...ona-worst-small-towns-study-2025/86571326007/

 

Carole,

The question is still how our members would answer the question "Are you proud to be a resident of Sun City".

John

 

All part of the same article. Uses Wallet hub a mediocre marketing site to denounce Sun City, Repeating the same baloney, different site. The same BS as it rated "towns" based upon their school systems included. Why continue to spread this as a viable remark when the criteria used doesnt match our community, which by the way is not a city and we dont have schools!

 

No more Sun City.

Need to change the name of our community to “Sun Unicorporated Place?”

 

FYI, in one of my recent posts regarding the budget, I saw opportunities for member engagements if you looked from the big picture standpoint or from information right in front of your eyes. Further, I have asked Bill what his plan was for the future to enable member engagement but receive history lectures when we were Mayberry RFD. What your plan since posting anything positive isn’t exactly your part and parcel. Oh, I know you want me to go first. This shows me you are in the Stevie Wonder category and stop using by laws as a cudgel for not doing anything. Think of the art of the possible and work from there.

 

As usual Dave, you are a day late and dollar short; probably how and why that GM had pulled the wool over your eyes for so many years eh? Correct me if i'm wrong, but you were there for the entirety of the ride as the whole thing turned to crap?

I use history as a teaching tool, and there is no more appropriate lesson plan than how DEVCO treated new home buyers. They welcomed them with open arms with the goal to make each and every new owner feel like they were an integral part of the community. That's how you grow the sense of community and create a mindset of ownership and buy-in.

I've been preaching this as part of my "shtick" for as far back as when i ran for the board. This isn't that hard a concept, especially when you consider the current walk-in the door upfront entry fee next year will be $6,680. Seems like a lot of money to hope members find their way. Clearly the current do as little as possible strategy hasn't worked, not even a little.

I know you consider member/friendly efforts to be folly; when you proudly told us all that you considered members getting involved was for "self-serving clowns, hustlers and BS artists." Shameful comments, and that's being kind.

 

Dave,

I insist you apologize for the comment you made about the nuts running the nuthouse. It is an absolutely uncalled for comment.

John Fast

 

John,

As a lack of evidence has not been presented to the contrary regarding what exactly Bill saw as member governance, I stand by my opinion.