RCSC committees that have disappeared!

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by eyesopen, Jul 30, 2022.

  1. eyesopen

    eyesopen Active Member

    RCSC Member participation once included these committees. They are still listed on the RCSC website, Questions About Committees.
    Magically, opportunities for Members to serve have vanished.
    WHY? Member voices are no longer welcome?!?
    Is it time to reinstate any or all of these committees?
    9. What does the Entertainment Committee do? The purpose of the Entertainment Committee is to select and book all acts that appear at the Sun Bowl or its alternate venues.
    16. What does the Government Affairs Committee do? It is the purpose of the Government Affairs Committee to monitor the legislation and actions of the Arizona State House of Representatives, the Arizona State Senate, the Arizona Corporation Commission, the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors and any and all other governmental agencies. The committee will inform the Board and Management of any recommendations for actions to be taken as a result.
    18. What does the Member Communication Committee do? It is the purpose of the Member Communication Committee to make recommendations regarding methods and procedures for providing RCSC (*)Member/Cardholders with information on RCSC projects, policies, activities and benefits.
    20. What does the Marketing Committee do? The Marketing Committee’s purpose will be to make recommendations to the RCSC Board regarding marketing Sun City as a premier active retirement community for 55+ adults who wish to continue an active lifestyle as a way of life by utilizing the golf courses and the recreation centers with their numerous amenities and clubs. Emphasizing the unsurpassed value of what is available in Sun City and the dynamic activities available to those who choose to participate.
    23. What happened to the Legal Affairs Committee? A standing committee is established to aid the Board in accomplishing its duties on an ongoing basis. The RCSC Board came to its final decision in 2011 (Craig Brown was not on the Board then) that the Legal Affairs Committee would not be asked to convene on anything that was under advisement by RCSC’s legal counsel, as the members of the committee were never licensed to practice law in Arizona and most had not practiced law for many, many years in the states from which they originated. Therefore, it was deemed that it would not be advisable for the Board to use the Legal Affairs Committee to provide advice on anything that required a legal opinion. Past members of the Legal Affairs Committee have been asked by the RCSC Board to consider serving on the Government Affairs Committee, where their expertise is needed and could serve our community well; to date, no past Legal Affairs Committee members have volunteered to do so. https://suncityaz.org/committees-2/
  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Interesting list eo; i had forgotten about a couple of them. None was more important than the legal affairs committee. It was made up of retired attorneys and judges who reviewed every action the board of directors was thinking about making. They (like every other committee) had no authority to pass anything. Their job was to make recommendations. Free legal advice if you will. They had been around for 30 years and then in the sweep of a keystroke and the blessing of the board, were gone. The general manager claimed that some of them weren't licensed in the State of Arizona, so they became expendable.

    Now looking back over that time period when they were flushed, it's pretty easy to see why she didn't want them looking over her shoulder as she molded documents and the community into the shape she wanted. When it happened, some of us questioned why, 16 years later, it is pretty obvious why they needed to be gone. These were all old-timers who understood how Sun City was built.

    I've written it before, while serving on the board the goal was to minimize the committee's role. The gm wrote the language, the board passed it. Somewhere on these pages of TOSC is a long treatise i wrote to my fellow board members regarding committees. My entire point to them was if it was time to do away with them, then they best find a new way of garnering community input. That too went over like a fart in church.

    Instead, they let committees work in a vacuum where their recommendations went nowhere and those serving on them often walked away in disgust. If you want examples, i can easily provide them.
  3. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    It was replaced by a law firm and lawyer who believes the Bylaws supersede the Articles of Incorporation! Think not? Just review what happened at the last Annual Membership Meeting.
    eyesopen likes this.
  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Spot on. Good thing the video was "lost" because an attorney giving a client information they know is wrong is frowned on. This was there is no record of what he actually said.
    OneDayAtATime, eyesopen and FYI like this.
  5. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And wouldn't it be nice if there was a Standing Bylaw's Committee comprised mostly of Member's of the community?

    It's bad enough that the Bylaw's require all committees to be chaired and co-chaired by a member of the board. Wouldn't it be nice too have several average Joe's and Jane's on a committee with an eye on how a Bylaw amendment may affect the general Membership? Members who look out for the Member's best interest, not the Boards or managements.

    As we have seen in the past, most amendments have only isolated the Member's, driving them farther apart to any opportunity to challenge a Board or RCSC decision to the point that anything and everything a Member may want to do must first be blessed by the Board or RCSC.

    Nobody owns the RCSC corporation, not the Members and not the Board, but the corporation is mandated "To do anything and everything lawfully necessary in the interest of the Members of the Corporation..."

    This is like living in Mayberry where Sheriff Taylor is also the town Judge!
    BPearson and eyesopen like this.
  6. eyesopen

    eyesopen Active Member

    The Obsolete Man (Member)
    Any state, any entity, any ideology which fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete. A case to be filed under "M" for "Mankind”(Member) - in The Twilight Zone.

    View "The Obsolete Man" episode 29 clip

    From Episodes That Prove The Twilight Zone Has Always Tackled The Big Issues
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
    FYI likes this.
  7. Having committees, especially active committees with competent and qualified members is a lot of work, for the GM. I speak from 15 years experience as the Executive Director of two non-profits, that had very active committees; standing and ad hoc. Knowing what I know now about the previous GM, I'm not surprised. Committees can get in the way; there is all that "messy" committee reporting that goes to the Board that might require some action OR raise unwanted questions by the Board OR members. But, I'll put my money on good committee involvement with interested, involved, qualified committee members any day! This, however, again falls back on lack of Board training, that is also the responsibility of the GM - to see to it that Board members have ongoing training in best practices so that they fully understand how boards are supposed to operate, their fiduciary responsibility, their oversight of their hired management, etc. There are professionals that can be hired....even in our small organizations, we took advantage of professional training. It was well worth the $$'s spent!
  8. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And there's the key! You have to believe your involvement and contributions to the committee will be honestly respected and received or else there's no sense in wasting your time.

    People need to know that they can make a difference!
    suncityjack, BPearson and eyesopen like this.
  9. That's absolutely true! There has to be mutual respect between all of the stakeholders. The paid CEO, GM or whatever the organization calls their chief executive, must respect the volunteers...Board members, committee volunteers and the members..in my case they were Chamber of Commerce members and Foundation donors. And, you have to believe in the community, large or small, and work every day to make sure that everything you do is in the best interest of the people that make that community their home. If not, you're in the wrong job. It's not for the faint of heart, but it can be incredibly rewarding. There are always challenges, but if you have a good team, communicate, admit mistakes, and celebrate major accomplishments, an organization, and ultimately the community can do great things. Webb had a grand idea...Meeker was a real visionary. We have amazing talent among us that can also step up and do good work. They just need to be acknowledged and encouraged, not ignored and/or discouraged.
  10. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Since 2005, between my husband and myself we have served on: Properties Committee, Election Committee, Member Communications Committee(the original), Bowling Committee, Long Range Planning(before it went off the rails), and the Grand Avenue Ad Hoc Committee.

    For the most part the committee members were sincere in their efforts but after a while it was exhausting to be constantly steered by each year's newly elected Chair/Co-Chair and RCSC Management. Each new Chair/Co-Chair Board Member had their own agenda and it was like starting over again. Management had their own plan for all things RCSC so after years of dedication it became too frustrating to put in the time and effort. I hope that is changing and Committees will once again be seen as a positive.
  11. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Fascinating thread gang. The whole idea of nurturing the membership and grooming them to become active and willing participants of the self-governing process just makes sense. Bringing them along and helping them understand the value and values the community were built on and around should be simple to understand. That is if that was really your goal. The past 15 years has proved to all of us, they had no interest in mentoring new members. In fact, just the opposite. Pushing them away, was better for the plan to enjoy total control without the pesky membership sticking their noses under the tent.

    Think not? Just watch the meetings when they air. Does it look like they give two shits about what we think? The latest golf decision was the classic example of how it works. The golf advisory committee is one of the longest standing in our community. They had virtually no input into the $250 increase, and even less in allowing non-residents buying full play passes and the access they have. That alone screams volumes; SCREAMS VOLUMES.

    Love aggies comments. I was on the board and voted against the changing rules the gm shoved into the documents regarding committees. Husband and wives serving on committees was common-place. The general manager argued (successfully to the board), we shouldn't allow them to serve on the same committee. Her contention was they could team up and force ideas. recommendations down the committee's throats.

    Same old crap, different day. The strategy was to minimize the role of committees. It worked. I was the chair on several and i loved whenever they would have ideas i would submit them as "recommendations." They seldom saw the light of day, and if they did, they were just voted down. The argument was; members who served on committees had an agenda. No shit Sherlock. Their agenda was to try and make Sun City a better place to live. That's why they gave so freely of their time.

    People who think they have all the answers, that they alone can be the salvation are dangerous. Anyone who thinks they are that important and that their ideas are better than everyone else's fail to understand the importance of community and inclusion. So sad, because Sun City enjoyed a concept and a construct where new owners were encouraged to be a part of the process. Not these days.
    suncityjack likes this.
  12. Bill - you're absolutely right about "committee recommendations" to the Board. Board members are guilty of "group think." Especially if they are working in isolation and are only fed the corporate line from the GM, with an attitude that he/she has all the answers, knows what's best or has his or her own agenda. It's dangerous and no way to run a large organization, or any for that matter! From my observation, it appears that maybe the entire management team may also suffer from not having their voices heard. An example, the pathetic state of technology.

    It's disheartening to hear Aggie's comments, and I'm betting they aren't alone! Communities everywhere are faced with volunteer shortages; we need to embrace our residents and welcome their experience and ideas!
    OneDayAtATime likes this.
  13. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Hey Linda, i've written the term "group think" so much explaining how we got to where we are, even i get tired of reading it. Once while doing an evaluation of the gm in a work session i stated she was the most manipulative person i ever worked with. That's saying a lot. You'd of thought i crapped in the center of the table, several board members went nuts. How dare i? I tried to explain we taught manipulation for the right reasons isn't a bad thing, it mattered not.

    I still chuckle over it. I wasn't insulting the general manager, i was pointing out to my fellow board members how little they understood what was going on. Nope, they never did get it. They simply thought i was just being an ass hat and they were the enlightened ones. With every road she took them down, they bought it hook, line and sinker. When your single source of information comes from one person with a preordained outcome, no one should be surprised we are where we are.

    The other aspect that is often misunderstood is that personality types that want absolute control only require one skill set from their employees; loyalty. I know any number of RCSC employees who had the potential to do so much more, but they simply didn't overstep the boundary's the gm put on them. Stifling creative people is pathetic but it's what happens when the boss doesn't want to be out shined.

    As mush as she tried to keep committees in check, there were always committee members and sometimes chairs who pushed the envelope. She couldn't prevent it at the committee level, so the solution was to have the board members kill it at the board level. Crushing motions from committees has caused more members to quit than i can count. There's no point in serving if you know what you are doing has no value or doesn't fit into the vision of the general manager.

    The road back is long and slow. That's tragic.
  14. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    That's why I believe a good argument can be made that a resident, a non-board member who has had professional experience on the subject for most of their career should be the Chair of the committee and a Board member should only be relegated to Vice-Chair (not co-chair, a term frowned upon in Robert's Rules). The non-board member, as a past professional, knows exactly what was required and how to accomplish those goals rather then sticking someone who, more than likely, got on the board by winning a popularity contest and knows little about the subject, is then put in place and proceeds to change direction based on their own agenda?

    Let's talk about "group think" for a minute. True story, under the new tutelage of the Election Committee the Chair has packed the committee with former members of the board (all but one is a former board member). And at a recent meeting, one of those new former board members actually made a motion to exclusively only allow former board members on the committee! Thankfully the motion failed.

    Bottom line: Committee's have no authority to change one thing. The sole purpose of the existence is to make recommendations to the board and only the board can act on those recommendations.
    OneDayAtATime and eyesopen like this.
  15. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    It should come as no surprise that recommendation has been made several times FYI. Having the chair be a board member was always a given, having the vice-chair come from the membership made perfect sense to help create continuity. That was the problem, the gm wasn't interested in continuity. Playing musical chairs with the chairs insured no one ever got too comfortable. Aggie was right, with every change of the chair came a whole new agenda. Hell, they often changed what the committees goals and objectives were. For those serving on the committee, the changes in direction made it really tough.
    eyesopen likes this.
  16. eyesopen

    eyesopen Active Member

    Our board and committee members need and deserve training and support, whether they know it or not!
    There are many programs available, in person and online. Some are FREE! Nonprofit Ready

    RCSC should budget annually for whatever program is adopted to initially train all directors and committee members and then all new members each year after. Additional specialty opportunities as identified, too.

    Is there a manual for directors detailing their function with performance guidelines? The website content is written in pig Latin!

    If we really value these volunteers, they need to be provided more than a “Yay, you won!” Let’s show them the money, invest in their success.

    We’ll all benefit from well trained volunteers, confident in their duties to “serve in the interest of the Members.”
    suncityjack and OneDayAtATime like this.
  17. eyesopen...you are absolutely right! And, if they aren't already doing it, the management team should also be required to attend a minimum of one professional development training course annually.

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