PIF, for the unknowing, stands for Preservation and Improvement Fund. It was the brainchild of the 1999 RCSC board of directors. In a piece I wrote yesterday for 55Places, I said it was Sun City's defining moment. It is the financial mechanism that has allowed us to reinvest over $100 million dollars in the community since its inception and will bring in excess of $150 million dollars more in the next 20 years. And all the while keeping the community the most affordable in the country (the current lot assessment is $462 per household, per year). The Rec Centers of Sun City (RCSC) has more than 400 employees and an annual budget on the other side of 20 million dollars. Rec centers and golf courses are open virtually every day of the year (in one form or another). While the summer months slow down (the board and committees aren't in session July and August), the internal workings of the RCSC keeps on trucking. Yesterday the Management Reports were emailed to us. Without the monthly board meetings. we still get updates to keep us abreast of what is going on. I hate budgets, and am not a "numbers guy." There is one set of figures however I always pay attention to, and so should you. The general manager fills in for the treasurer while they get the summer off, so she reported on these absolutely amazing PIF stats: * PIF collected in July (for homes sold in June): $702,200. * Year to date PIF collected (January through June): $3593,048. Staggering numbers for the summer months and for the year. The increase hasn't gone in yet ($3000 to $3500 due to increase in October and payable on properties changing hands), yet we are on track to break the 7 million dollar mark for the year. And for those mathematically challenged, for the month of June that equates to roughly 230 plus homes sold. A Realtor said to me the other day: "in Sun City you could almost plan on taking the summer off." Not these days baby, and the cool thing is, you ain't seen nothing yet. BTO-1974.
I feel somewhat discriminated against. The RCSC lot assessment is one (1) amount no matter how many people live in the house. My monthly condo fee is the same. Water is included in my condo fee. You don't have to be a mathematician to figure that 2 people will use more water than 1. And there are many, many, many like me.
In my hoa, the monthly fees depend on how big your condo is. I pay more because my unit is 2 bedrooms 2 bathrooms, than my next door neighbor who only has 1 bedroom 1 bathroom.
Sometimes people get confused when reading sites like this where there appears to be comments that don't fit with some of the other stuff they read. Peg lives in an attached complex where they have their own association and related fees; as does sussea. There are in fact 386 of them in Sun City. There are 27,000+ rooftops, with roughly 9000 attached and 18,000 detached. Everyone pays a lot assessment to the RCSC. That fee is $462 per year. Anyone that bought after 2003 pays the full rate whether there are two people in the home or one. Those who bought before that date could in fact buy-in and pay a singles only rate (if they truly were a single owner). A decision to grandfather those pre-2003 was made and the board voted to change to a flat rate whether there was 1 or 2 people on the deed. The argument was it made for a cleaner more consistent budgeting process. In home owners associations for attached dwellings, they have rates all over the place. Some include roof maintenance which typically makes them considerably more expensive. Some are aggressively trying to reduce water rates and lawn maintenance because they have been driving costs up. Others love their "green space" are willing to pay the price to keep it. Some are really well run and some have relinquished oversight to outside third parties (which they pay a premium for). For those considering attached housing, it behooves you to know exactly what you a buying into. We periodically hear the lament that Peg echoed and the question asked; "how come we pay more than our neighbors?" I know it's easy to jump on that bandwagon as things change and I whole-heartedly encourage people, before they buy here, is their own due diligence. Get a good hold of the costs associated with owning a property in Sun City and the particular home you are buying. If you think there are things that aren't fair, maybe Sun City isn't for you. In Peg's case, the good news is the owners of the units she lives in make their own rules. If owners aren't happy with them, they need convince the majority of other owners to vote for a change to make them "more fair." It's one of the challenges of living in attached homes. Historically Sun City has had a couple of variations from single person assessment to a pure lot assessment. It's always depended on those living here and getting involved. It's why I always tell people we are more like a commune (shared costs) that we are like a city. You pay to live here, albeit an incredibly reasonable price. If you don't use any of the amenities, you'll hear some of those people argue for a "user's fee." You'll often hear them moan "it isn't fair." The reality is, that's the way Sun City was built and how it has evolved. There's things I don't like, and when they have bothered me I simply got involved and tried to change them. It's just another one of those things that makes us different and why I think Sun City is a better way to live.
Just because we don't think things are not fair for singles does not mean we don't belong in Sun City.. We have the right to buy in and still not like some things. I also feel singles are discriminated against. I don't like paying double and not being able to even use the extra for a visitor. Especially when it was at one time a single rate and those people are still enjoying a single rate every year. It doesn't make things cleaner, it just give SC more money. It would be just as clean to charge per person. Maybe you're not moaning because you don't pay it.
Actually I don't moan because if I see something I don't like, I try and change it C. My mom got caught up in the grandfathering deal they did several years back and I did run for the board because they changed the rules in the middle of the game. It was what prompted me to get involved at that level. She's a single person who bought here before 2003 and now pays $462. She uses nothing in the community, lives in a quad and her HOA fees are the same as the couple next door. While it may be unfair on a couple of levels, Sun City is the best place for her to be. I've listened to all of it any number of times and my whole point was that anyone buying here need understand what they are buying into. If they feel strongly enough about the unfairness of it all, shop around and see if you can do better. Once you are living in Sun City, the best thing a person can do it is work to change it. It just makes so much more sense than "moaning" about it.
Two (2) homes in my condo association sold since June. And the might have been more earlier this year. Yep. Homes are selling.
Not necessarily. Sometimes people just want to be heard. Moaning out-loud makes them feel better than keeping it inside. Singles are in the minority so it's difficult to make people care about them. And it depends if a person thinks the time spent to change a difficult system will be worth it or not. Sometimes moaning about it makes more sense.
I've always tried to compare the RCSC per lot assessment to other similar annual charges. Do single title holders complain to the Maricopa County Tax Assessor because they pay property tax based on the property evaluation and not the number of occupants? Do they request a lower bill from Parks & Sons because the single resident won't create as much trash as multiple residents in a dwelling? Do they complain to the Fire District to lower their annual fire district assessment because there is only a single occupant? I would like to see some benefit given to single title holder occupants paying the full $462 assessment. Maybe the RCSC could issue two free guest punch cards each year as a small gesture?
I don't see it as the same, I'll tell you the reason. If a third or fourth person lives in or owns in the house, they will get an additional per person assessment added if they wish to use the REC centers. (unless I am wrong about that). No property tax increase, no fire district increase etc either for the third or fourth person. That is an assessment of the house/property itself not a personal usage. Trash usage would be just too hard to assess as an individual. One person might trash out more than one couple. The annual RCSC is mainly for the rec center upkeep/usage, which is a per person basis to keep the community as is even if a person is not using it. Also, if renters move in they are assessed per person. And another bad part of the single rate. If a second person lives in the house with the single owner, and that person is under 55 (and they are not married) that person cannot use the unused paid portion either. Unlike married couples whose under 55 partner can use it. This is clearly unfair to singles. There is already a single person assessment going on. So the "cleaner" explanation again doesn't fly.
And to make my final point on moaning vs action. If I were to challenge this, it would be through legal means not within SC board whims. I've already seen how that worked with the PIF. I could put all my energies into making it right only to be changed (again) by a current board that won't listen. Requiring the under 55 person who lives in the property to be married to the over 55 owner to use the second RCSC card would probably be enough for a legal case. And that could not so easily be changed by the board. Just know what is happening and admit it... single owners who bought in after 2003 are discriminated against annualy. We just are.
We've now owned a home in Sun City for 16 years. Love it here, done almost everything there is to do with and for the community. During that entire time there's been a resident who has devoted her "retirement" to fixing the things she didn't like. Nope, never ran for a board position, never joined a committee...just spent the last 16 years begging money from people living here to fight for them. I've always subscribed to the adage Webb used in his Sun City speeches: " Concrete, steel and lumber make the buildings, but people make the community. As has been the case so many times in the past, if people of good will sit down together with one basic objective-the building of a better community-the future has great promise." Incredibly powerful words Cynthia and unbelievably insightful given they were first crafted in the early 60's as Sun City was fighting through more than their share of growing pains. In spite of all the angst over the years, we survived and flourished; when the experts said we had no chance. Every step of the way, there's been things people haven't liked. There's been people who disliked it so much, they moved. I'm not nor have ever been of the mind of "love it, or leave it." I just grow weary of folks telling me they think the answer is to sue, litigate to get even. That's been the mantra from Sun City's self appointed savior since the day we bought here. I've sat and had coffee with her several times. She even says things I agree with. Then she starts down the path that everyone is corrupt and being bought off and my brain shuts down. Here's s a simple fact for you. In 1999, when we bought our home, we looked very closely at Sun City West. We even found a home we liked a lot. At the time, they had rec fees a few dollars higher than ours. They had an identical structure as we did, single owners paying half of what dual owners paid. If you bought there, or even looked in that community, that is still their structure. You would pay half the rate of a dual owner. Here's the kicker: Their single rate is almost on par with our current lot assessment rate. Consequently, their rate for two people is now considerably above the $800 mark. There's no question, the change in 2003 was about raising revenue. I was in the room when the board did it, and clearly it was controversial. The only way it passed was because of the "grandfathering" feature. Labor unions have been using that same technique forever and while it works getting a contract passed, it always leaves those coming along behind them feeling short-changed. The point to all of this is, I get it, I know how you feel. I know how my mother feels. I know how angry I've gotten sitting in work sessions when other board members went brain-dead when "fairness" issues hit the table. And yet with all of that said, this community has survived, thrived and done things better than almost any of the others out there. We've weathered every storm (and there's been some doozies). Sun City is perfectly positioned to maintain its relevance for years to come. The one downside is folks moving here who resent it because it doesn't fit their needs. Consequently, when I serve on boards or get involved in the process of self-governance, I always come to understand we live in a collective setting, not an individual one. I have all kinds of things I think would make Sun City better, however, unless or until I can get buy-in, they are just on my wish list. I suspect you'll read this as a personal admonishment, its not. My hope is people reading this will just better understand how Sun City has been successful, and why it has worked as well as it has. It's why our history matters. There are thousands (literally) of other age restricted communities out there. A number of them have the kind of single owner/dual owner billing process you would like to see. The difference is, none are run as well, none of them have as many amenities at so little cost... and none of them have the value or the values Sun City has. If you truly feel there is some injustice here (and there is) work with the system to change it. That's always been the cornerstone of the communities values. Threatening legal action is hardly a good start to a better Sun City...for anyone.
I never said I planned to pursue any legal action, so don't insinuate that I threatened anything. I've never been one who sues. I said if I were going to pursue some action, a legal one is the only one that makes sense in this case because any other could be easily reversed and back to square one. Time wasted. I bought in knowing. What I yelped about is others saying that it's the same as property taxes or other per property fees. It's not. It's tied to the number of rec cards given if married. I've accepted it, I'm paying it, but it's wrong of SC to do it.
Clearly this thread has gotten a wee-bit side-tracked from the feel good numbers of the PIF's success this year. It was never my intention for any reader to take what I have written personally. I completely understand how and why single owners in Sun City feel the way they do (at least those buying after 2003). I also know some of the angst for buyers/owners who elect not to put one of the spouses on the deed and what an ugly impact that has on them. And how about those who buy here and live within 75 miles of Sun City? They can't use the amenities until they vacate their existing house and move here permanently. And that's not even mentioning those dual owners not married and one of them under 55. These were all scenarios we heard and faced while on the board. Unfortunately the majority of the board went tone-deaf and simply said that's the way it is. My position was these issues were the kind we bring before the community by opening up the discussions and let people have a voice. That too was shot down, as board members feared the repercussions of residents who wanted something more fair (or in some people's positions not right). It's arguments like these that make this forum so important. I've written and said on several occasions I want the "right kind of people" buying Sun City property. While I know how that sounds elitist, the point is I want people who understand the community and its history. Those that know when they buy here they buy into something special, something different. Along with ownership comes not only the responsibility of being a home owner, but also of insuring the community survives and thrives. There's a million ways for Sun City residents to do that, but one thing that stands out is how we are governed. For the past 15 years or so, way too many people buying in Sun City have ignored it because it's a pain in the butt. They've argued they can't change it, so why bother? I don't agree, because the platform Sun City is built is exactly constructed in ways where we can make a difference. Our history has proven that time and time again. There's no question there's been a shift, but not so much that a collective voice won't be heard. Singularly, we have little chance, collectively we can move mountains. Here's one of my favorite sayings from a truly impeccable source, a fortune cookie: " A different world cannot be made by indifferent people." Over the years, thousands of people living in Sun City have made it what it is today. Is it perfect? Nope. Can we make it better? Yup. Will we?
