Nov. 11 Special Session

Okay, so now a revised agenda of the Special Session has been posted.

Does anybody see an agenda item for Member Comments? I thought that was the original intent of the Special Session.

What happened to the $4000 PIF and $1000 CIF?

$12,000 Really?

 

What is the 12k for?

SECTION 4: ACCESS FEE

A one-time Access Fee per Property, as determined by the Board, shall be paid by the builder, owner or developer desiring to have access to RCSC Facilities for any land, building or structure or portion of any building or structure which is, has been or is intended to be, for use and occupancy as a dwelling unit and is real property in Sun City, Arizona located in the area entitled “Sun City General Plan, Maricopa County, Arizona,” as prepared by the Del E. Webb Development Company and dated July 1972, November 1974, August 1975, and September 1978 with subsequent amendments thereto.

Said builder/owner/developer must execute a Facilities Agreement with the Corporation. Purchasers of individual Properties are also required to execute a Facilities Agreement and pay a PIF Fee, CIF Fee, Transfer Fee, annual property assessment and any other and all assessments, fees and charges as designated by the Facilities Agreement and Corporate Documents. There are no refunds available for access fees.

 

The Special Session is run just like a board meeting. Sign up to speak to specific motions before the meeting starts.

 

How much is the access fee now? Can’t find it anywhere in RCSC webland.

 

RCSC Board Policy Resolution No. 24 | Sun City, Arizona - The Original Fun City!

2024 Fees | Sun City, Arizona - The Original Fun City!

Looking for 2025 10_23_24-Use-RCSC-2025-Budget-Town-Halls-Presentation.pdf

 

Good question! There's no dollar figure in the Facilities Agreement, can't find one in the Bylaws either?

So where does a new buyer find the current $4000 PIF and $1000 CIF costs? Where the heck are those amounts documented? Are they just hidden somewhere in the past Minutes of a Board Meeting?

And when was all that increased from a cost of $5,000 to $12,000?

Am I missing something? Is it just me? Am I crazy?

 

Are you talking about the 2025 PIF and CIF?

 

I'm just trying to figure out where that $12,000 dollar figure came from.

 

From the agenda

Vice President McAdam: Board Policy 24, Section 4 requires that from time to time the Board determine a one-time Access Fee per property that shall be paid by a builder, owner or developer desiring to have access to RCSC facilities for any land, building or structure which is intended for use and occupancy as a dwelling unit. It appears that this Access Fee has not been updated since approximately 2006. Therefore, I move that the Board set the Access Fee at $12,000 per lot and grant the General Manager discretion as to the terms of payment of this fee by a builder, owner or developer.

Board Policy 24. Section 4
SECTION 4: ACCESS FEE

A one-time Access Fee per Property, as determined by the Board, shall be paid by the builder, owner or developer desiring to have access to RCSC Facilities for any land, building or structure or portion of any building or structure which is, has been or is intended to be, for use and occupancy as a dwelling unit and is real property in Sun City, Arizona located in the area entitled “Sun City General Plan, Maricopa County, Arizona,” as prepared by the Del E. Webb Development Company and dated July 1972, November 1974, August 1975, and September 1978 with subsequent amendments thereto.

Said builder/owner/developer must execute a Facilities Agreement with the Corporation. Purchasers of individual Properties are also required to execute a Facilities Agreement and pay a PIF Fee, CIF Fee, Transfer Fee, annual property assessment and any other and all assessments, fees and charges as designated by the Facilities Agreement and Corporate Documents. There are no refunds available for access fees.

I don't know.

 

Not crazy Tom, just reality settling in

 

The only facilities agreement with $ figures I can find are from the Maricopa County Recorder's office. Could the 12K have something to do with contractors? Therefore, I move that the Board set the Access Fee at $12,000 per lot and grant the General Manager discretion as to the terms of payment of this fee by a builder, owner or developer. This is a stretch but there was talk on here of new land to build on depending on if current structures are removed in the future as well as golf courses. Someone asked if we needed so many.

 

I remember when they were talking about the money Royal Oaks had to pay. I don't remember the amount.

 

I am unfamiliar with the 12k figure, sounders like another bs rumor.

 

It was in the revised Agenda sent from RCSC today via emal

 

From the agenda

Vice President McAdam: Board Policy 24, Section 4 requires that from time to time the Board determine a one-time Access Fee per property that shall be paid by a builder, owner or developer desiring to have access to RCSC facilities for any land, building or structure which is intended for use and occupancy as a dwelling unit. It appears that this Access Fee has not been updated since approximately 2006. Therefore, I move that the Board set the Access Fee at $12,000 per lot and grant the General Manager discretion as to the terms of payment of this fee by a builder, owner or developer.

 

Thx. Dave never believes me.

 

This is an access fee in that it clearly states who pays and it is not the lot owner. It does not give the lot owner access to RCSC properties as they would have to pay the assessment. This applied to the Royal Oaks development and the horse properties on south 111th ave. So I believe you but there has to be a touch of clarification.

 

Your mixing PIF+CIF with the ACCESS fee.

 

Well, if there's a difference they need to better define it because as I read it, it says, "Access Fee per property that shall be paid by a builder, owner or developer..."

And it also says, "desiring to have access to RCSC facilities for any land, building or structure..."

So what makes those statements mean anything different from the average person wanting to purchase a property in Sun City?

If you purchase a home you're an owner, and isn't a house a building or structure?

Seems to me this BP is little too general and could use some help to make it more specific?

 

Thanks for starting this thread.

Let me start with "Special Sessions."

A "Special Session" is the only meeting of the Board that is not clearly defined in the Bylaws. "Executive sessions", "Planning sessions", "Information Sessions" are defined as well as "Board meetings." ((Also, note that Focus Sessions, the new meeting that several Board members have mentioned publicly that is held between the Board and the GM before a Board meeting is NOT even mentioned in the Bylaws. Doesn't it have to be in the Bylaws in order for it to happen?))

What is stated is this: At least seven (7) days prior to all Board meetings, excluding Executive Sessions, Special Sessions, Informational Meetings and the Exchanges, an agenda, subject to amendment, shall be posted in RCSC Facilities and/or on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org). (So the Board decided to post an agenda even though the Bylaws state that it is not needed.) Motions made in "Board meetings," excluding Executive Sessions, Special Sessions and the Exchanges, shall be read and passed a minimum of two times before finalized and acted upon unless readings are waived by two-thirds (2/3) majority of the Board (6). (So, is this interpretated as no motions can be made in a Special Session" because a Special Session is not a Board meeting or does it mean that a motion made in an excluded Special Session only has to be read once? My interpretation was “Motions can be made in Board meetings, excluding Executive Sessions, Special Sessions or Exchanges.” but when I asked a board member for an explanation, this is what that person said: "Motions in special sessions are excluded from requiring to be passed a minimum of 2 times. It says nothing about whether or not motions can be made in them. If it doesn’t say that you can’t make motions or place limitations on them, then you should be allowed to make them." It seems that if we spell out in detail facts about Board meetings, Executive Sessions, and Information Sessions, that should also happen for Special Sessions. Otherwise, I guess the rule is, "if it isn't in there, we can do it."

To add more confusion, typically we members are only allowed to speak at "Board meetings" on posted motions. This is a "Special Session". Are we allowed to speak? The agenda does NOT say we can. But in defense of the Board, they did state at the last meeting that we would be able to speak at the Special Session on the PAC location.

The bylaws go on to say that "As soon as practicable, a brief summary of the preceding "Board meeting" shall be posted on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org). After approved by the Board, minutes of Board meetings, excluding Executive Sessions and the Exchanges, will be available on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org) or to Members in good standing at no cost upon request at the Corporate Office. In this paragraph, Special Sessions aren't lumped in with Executive or Exchanges, so are we supposed to get a summary or minutes after it concludes?

Next Topic - Board Policy 24
Let's go on to the next subject that this agenda has introduced. "Vice President McAdam: Board Policy 24, Section 4 requires that from time to time the Board determine a one-time Access Fee per property that shall be paid by a builder, owner or developer desiring to have access to RCSC facilities for any land, building or structure which is intended for use and occupancy as a dwelling unit. It appears that this Access Fee has not been updated since approximately 2006. Therefore, I move that the Board set the Access Fee at $12,000 per lot and grant the General Manager discretion as to the terms of payment of this fee by a builder, owner or developer. "

The stated motion was missing the entire paragraph from BP24. This is how it reads: A one-time Access Fee per Property, as determined by the Board, shall be paid by the builder, owner or developer desiring to have access to RCSC Facilities for any land, building or structure or portion of any building or structure which is, has been or is intended to be, for use and occupancy as a dwelling unit and is real property in Sun City, Arizona located in the area entitled “Sun City General Plan, Maricopa County, Arizona,” as prepared by the Del E. Webb Development Company and dated July 1972, November 1974, August 1975, and September 1978 with subsequent amendments thereto." The bolded section was omitted in her motion.

This sounds like an "oops!" Somehow over the years, the Access Fee was not kept enforced, and they just now discovered it. (???) Which leads a member to ask how the $12,000 figure was determined, by whom, in an open session or budget meeting, etc.? This is an interesting question that we should ask the Board at the Exchange session. I did find a document on the website under cardholder information fees that lists many of the Fees, but an Access Fee is not listed. An access fee is NOT listed in the Bylaws.

Next topic - PAC at Lakeview
I would like to further complicate matters by taking this thread one step further. We now have a recommendation for the PAC at Lakeview. Are we going to receive dollar figures? Are we going to be shown drawings showing what the rest of the center will look like after the PAC is constructed? What about the fact that Lakeview is the next area that is to be improved. Why would you go to the expense in 2025/2026 of removing the Lawn Bowling and constructing a PAC and then in another two or three years, re-do the rest of the Lakeview campus? I would think it would be more feasible to work on the entire 17-acres at one time.

I think that some members of the Board forgot that on Thursday, January 18, 2024, a Special Session was held at Mountain View Auditorium that featured a PowerPoint presentation entitled "Mountain View Renovation Elements" as well as a Mountain View Renovation Brief. In that presentation, at approximately 12:45, the slide states "keep Lakeview Lawn Bowling, Shuffleboard, Fishing and Mini Golf at Lakeview."

I know that the membership has urged the Board to 'just get on with it' but I think that they meant Mountain View not Lakeview.

Thank you for your time. I hope that members realize that this PAC Special Session meeting is just as important as the Library Special Session was to the community. If the Board decides that they are making a motion regarding the PAC in a Special Session, it sounds like it is only going to need one reading.
Jean Totten as One Day at a Time