Lawsuit Withdrawn

After a great deal of discussion with community leaders, legal counsel and others, I decided to withdraw the lawsuit seeking to give the members the right to vote on the big stuff. The suit was withdrawn at about 10:00 this morning. I was completely transparent about why I felt the bylaws guaranteed the right of the members to vote. IMHO the bylaws are poorly written.

The lawsuit tarnishes my 40-year career achievement of never having to sue anyone. If it is possible for a lawsuit to do some good, I hope this one did. I continue to believe that all matters should be resolved through discussion.

The lawsuit was not a personal suit against any particular board member as an individual. I simply asserted the bylaws as written gave the members the right to vote and requested the Board members in their capacity as board members to take action to allow the vote.

I recently learned of two sections of the Arizona law which potentially make the members right to vote against the Board meaningless. These sections of Arizona law, when read together, seem to say that members only have the right to vote on amendments to the Bylaws when the board asks them to vote on such amendments. The sections are reproduced below.

I am saddened by the board’s refusal to discuss this matter and wish I could have saved all the hassle that we went through by having the simple discussion I requested up front.

These are the relevant portions of the Arizona Revised Code:

10-11021. Amendment by board of directors or members

If the articles of incorporation or the bylaws require that an amendment to or repeal of the corporation's bylaws be submitted to the members, the procedures set forth in section 10-11003 shall apply.

10-11003. Amendment by board of directors and members

A. The following apply to amendments to the articles of incorporation by the board of directors and the members, if there are members entitled to vote on the amendment:

1. A corporation's board of directors may propose one or more amendments to the articles of incorporation for submission to the members.

2. For the amendment to be adopted all of the following shall have occurred:

(a) The board of directors shall recommend the amendment to the members …

 

Thank you, John. Opened my eyes to many things.

 

John,
The full content continues:
B. The following apply to amendments to the articles of incorporation by the members, if there are members:

1. If the articles of incorporation expressly permit, the members may propose amendments to the articles of incorporation. If so permitted, the articles of incorporation shall set forth procedures for adopting member initiated amendments, including the percentage of voting power and method of notice required to propose an amendment and the responsibility for calling a member meeting to consider the amendment.
The Articles clearly state members may change the amendments. This is Section B of the same article which was quoted earlier.

 

Thank you for all of your diligent efforts.

 

Well, there is a first time for everything on lawsuits, but welcome to the world of big time litigation. Hope you learned about when to file a class action compliant and I learned a few things about civil pro in AZ. Better luck next time and thanks for the lesson.

Yours truly,
Sancho Panza

 

Since the topic is now about Josie and how she needs to prevail at all costs, my contempt for those who try to blame others for their repugnant actions is tremendous. Placing blame on someone else and not taking ownership for their actions and deeds is juvenile and immature. “It wasn’t my fault, he made me do it” is an infantile response and an attempt to justify such loathsome behavior.
Perhaps a review of proper etiquette is in order? Learn what is considered generally acceptable norms for participating on a chat board to include acceptable language and behavior, standards of civility, and what constitutes inflammatory rhetoric to avoid. All easily understood norms for a civilized person to understand.
At least make an effort to be respectful and polite. Try it sometime, you might find it to your benefit.
You have no idea what response I had for Dave and his post. Nope, you had to hijack the topic, then continue on, with your drivel that amounts to whining. I imagine while I was writing this, you posted additional narratives about nothing relevant. Just a whole lot of additional nonsense about how you are the alleged victim once again.

 

Dave,
We usually have a phone conversation about posts and the like, then move on to other topics on our minds.
Your comment to John seems to be a bit flippant to me. I don’t suspect any intent to sound condescending, but this is how it reads. John needs to be commended for taking on the best interest of the members and making the effort to bring forth an issue still in need of clarification. I applaud his efforts. I posted several comments on other threads that were not complimentary to his actions, and I hope he will forgive me for doing so.
I know you pride yourself on your ability to create a sense of questioning on almost everything commented on. Sometimes, the line of candor and sarcasm goes too far and can, in my opinion, be considered caustic and inflammatory. Your skills as a wordsmith are excellent, I would ask for some moderation in some of the snark applied to comments written. Not trying to change the narrative, asking for the narrative to be less snarky.

 

Striking difference in the tones of your posts to me and Dave. Plus, you admonish him privately via phone instead of public shaming. Did you even notice there is no post from me? Wonder what people will think.

 

Thank you, John. I appreciate you keeping us informed. I take this to mean that the RCSC Board of Directors were correct in determining to wait for a legal opinion on the motions brought forward by Members.

 

Janet,
I don’t believe the withdrawal was in agreement with the board’s attorneys decision. It was the best way to avoid additional costs and liability, in my opinion. John made a valiant effort to represent the members in a very difficult situation. John would be forced to face the sole burden of litigation and court costs as the case moves forward.
There’s time to recommend changes to the wording which caused this issue and should be addressed in time. Court action is usually an unpleasant way to go.

 

As usual, hijacking the thread and not staying on topic.
Different response to those who repeatedly steal the topic from the original thread in order to make it all about themselves.
Trolling of an individual is also not acceptable or appreciated behavior. This is exactly what is happening with this thread and the responses you have made.
So please, do continue to document the activity occurring here, and elsewhere. Do make sure you include the full context of the posts, I know I am. My documentation will go to the Arizona State Attorney’s office, stalking and trolling are considered illegal offenses in the state of Arizona. With the number of pages, proving you will chase the victim throughout the site in order to cause harm and make them fear retaliation, I feel confident I will prevail.
The letter you reference repeatedly is a hallmark example of how I was pushed to a point of despair by your actions. Helps me prove the fact of emotional distress caused by the continuous stalking and harassment of the plaintiff.
Just because you removed your posts, doesn’t mean that through the discovery process, they can’t be retrieved. They were posted, making them material evidence able to be used as proof of the truth and validity of my claim.

 

Janet, I don't believe the actions of the board were correct. There was plenty of time to recommend for or against each and every motion and to ask questions of the mption makers. More importantly, the Board once again missed an opportunity to engage the members. IMHO, the board makes little effort to engage the members in a meaningful way.

 

I know you and Dave are friends CM, but his remarks go well beyond the term snark. Sorry, he falls down on the side of being an obnoxious bore who simply wants to insult people. I'll happily stipulate (a legal term eh?) that he is the smartest guy in the room if he will quit sharing his school and work history with us all.

We all love a good two-way discourse, but rude and insulting does nothing to make TOSC a better place. We've all suffered through our demons on the political thread, but on these Sun City topics, enough is enough.

Just one man's opinion.

 

It does not stop there Bill. I am guilty as well, however so is Carole.

Pot......Kettle | Talk of Sun City

I asked, in a kind and sincere way, for the hijacking of threads and their topics to please stop. I thought I was being genuine in my message to try to put an end to this continuing assault upon posters that takes the message so far away from its original intent. Apparently, I was in error.
So, what is it going to take to get this written BS to stop appearing on TOSC? I, for one, have had my share of the “discussion”, or endless arguments and accusations about the most inane things to ever surface on a chat board. So, sit down and STFU! I will support, to the fullest, the ability to post one’s own thoughts and opinions, but when it’s endless barbs and insults, ad nauseam, stealing the intent and the spirit of the topic, it’s time to call the behavior out. Give it a f*cking break!
My best guess is the intent is to shut down TOSC? Most of the regular people have been run off this site and will not return because of the tone of the messages. Add to that the lack of respect for the topic and the author, and it becomes an exercise in frustration and anger.
Last I heard this is supposed to be a community of adults. What does it take to actually act like tact and respect exists here? In my opinion, of course.

CMartinez, Monday at 2:28 PM


and my personal favorite

Josie,
I truly believe you are in need of serious mental health support. Anyone who does
nothing but try to hurt and name call others, in order to make yourself appear to be
right really does need serious behavioral health support. You repeatedly state you are
making your statements to point out what was said is wrong.,Someone’s opinion is
not wrong, it’s how they perceive the truth of the situation. When you do any writing,?
it’s done with such malice and ignorance of the facts are as being presented. I, as well
as others, want to continue to use TOSC as a tool for exchange of ideas for the
betterment of the community. Your vile comments, followed by pasting many years
old portions of posts only exemplifies the fact that you are being immature, childish,
selfish and ignorant of current issues that need a positive change to make this
community better.
Posting old dead segments of posts that are relevant from a historical perspective but
not completing the thought only proves your in desperate need of professional help.
I do not pity you nor do I care what you do about making yourself better, but at least
have human decency to allow others to seek better answers without your attacks. This
is the only time I will ever ask you for anything. From this point forward, every time
you attack, harass, belittle or otherwise place yourself as judge and jury over someone
else’s opinion, I will report your post. This is Talk of Sun City, not Josie’s personal
pity part.
SunCityGal, Today at 1:25 AM

You don't get to chastise one person when all have been guilty at one time or another.

 

Bill,
Yes, we are friends, and as such, normally don’t post anything about posts Dave makes. I made it a point to share my dismay over the recent comments and their tone. I also made a succinct effort to be moderate in my tone, in light of recent comments and posts posted that have been removed by the same person stalking me. They were parked in the site moderator location and apparently released back to the thread this morning.
I agree with your sentiment about tone and intensity of posts made. I made it clear that I don’t condone this kind of behavior.
In light of being held accountable for another’s actions, I think I should refrain from commenting any further until such time there is a site moderator present. I have done my best to address the issue at hand to no avail.

 

I've been posting on this site as long or longer than anyone and easily have more posts than most. I've ever understood how or why the owner has made the site work for him/her (from a financial perspective). My favorite moment goes back years when someone reached out to me and asked if i wanted to sell the site to them?

I don't expect anyone to try and police any poster. Part of the value of community is we shouldn't have to do that. This site has never had an active admin and i'm not holding my breath we'll get one. We have rules that aren't enforced, so trying to engage one another civilly is our best option. I get it, politics is the great divide these days. That said, it simply doesn't belong in the Sun City section. It is here in one thread and as long as it's contained there, i can read it, post on it or ignore it.

With all that out of the way, i want to be able to read what Dave has to say. He's paid his dues over the years here, is knowledgeable and can add to the discussion. I'm at that point though where i just block him. It is the perfect tool for all of his unhappy with anyone who elects not to add to the group's value. I doubt Dave cares, but i do, which is why i made my comments above.

There's a lot of sites that rely on snark, mean and aggressive comments; TOSC shouldn't be one of them.

 

It has been sold several times and the current owner has no interest in selling. My guess is it's a write-off.

 

Bill,

You state that:

I don't expect anyone to try and police any poster

So, why single me out when I was attempting to ask for those posters that are causing strife, conflict and chaos to stop the very actions I am against? Why hold me as my brother’s keeper, per se, believing I can somehow control the actions of another? The trolling and stalking of myself is proof I have no say in what others post. I can admonish others for their actions, but have no say in stopping such actions.
I hold no ill will against the owners of the Talk of Sun City site, and wish them no harm. Yet, in light of recent events, I will be compelled to submit charges against the poster who consistently stalks and attacks me. In doing so, this site will also be cited as an accomplice in the aiding and abetting of the actions of stalking and trolling, causing the effect of severe emotional distress to this poster. The lack of moderation on this site may have allowed certain freedoms but those freedoms have been abused severely.
I truly don’t understand why the repeated requests for assistance have been ignored, perhaps because the owners have no active involvement in the site or this site has gone by the wayside. I do know I will not be held responsible for the content of others and I will not allow others to demean me unnecessarily.

 

Neither will I carole. I have asked you repeatedly for examples where I have stalked/harassed you and get nothing. Most of my posts are with dave, not you. so I really have no clue what you are talking about. Please enlighten me I rarely read what you write, unless you are harassing me. So bring it on.

 

Bill, point take but truly a class action would have been preferable for what he was trying to accomplish. I offered my opinion early on as to a different way to litigate but he ignored me. He even had a better idea of going through the JP court over in Surprise by going ffor a TRO since his cause of action was related to having the members vote. Just a pretty well informed opinion. I should have said what Dad told me when I was young, experience is a tough teacher, it gives tests first and lessons after. Very wise man, still the smartest man I have ever known and he never finished school because he had to work to help support the family.

Do I apologize for my skills, no, there are the result of long hours of reading, listening to persons who know what they are talking about (seems to be in short supply around here), spending long hours in courts watching and listening to what was going on, long hours analyzing financial statements, RFBs, Construction contracts, surety bonds for everything you could think of, preparing for seminars so I could reflect well on myself, underwriters who took the time to train me, the office and most of all, the Vice President who took a chance on hiring me. All my friends are retired attorneys but we still talk current litigation, Constitutional Law and just about everything under the Sun.

As for my uni experience, way too many people told me that I would never graduate and I should consider trade school. I took it as a personal challenge and for four years I did what was necessary. Was it easy, no, but I persevered. I have found that curiosity helps you go a long way, that is why I read a lot.