Law Enforcement District

I'm putting an idea out for comment.

We have a fire district. We are taxed by the county for Fire Protection.
Why not have a law enforcement district for Policing within Sun City? I would pay a reasonable tax for better police protection and traffic enforcement. I would pay what I pay for the Fire department without question.

This is an alternative to Sun City incorporation. Incorporation brings way too much. I think most people want better policing in our community.

There would be a board like our Fire District Board.
They should have access and control to all funds from a tax.
The board could:

• build a police department
• contract with the Sheriff for more coverage (like Youngtown does)
• contract with a nearby police force to provide coverage (like Peoria, Glendale, Surprise).

This is just an idea that I have. I think it may be possible and at a reasonable cost.

 

Maybe you could set this proposal up as a survey here and on Nextdoor?

 

My opinion only!
Giving law enforcement full run of Sun City is a open invitation for SCHOA to rule like the Gestapo. I can see it now, Mrs. Jones 85 years old draping a wet shirt on a chair to dry and a POS do gooder calls SCHOA who contacts the police agency and then they go and write a ticket to this poor little old lady.
Another thing I have seen over and over is that retired law enforcement get a adrenaline rush throwing their weight around running these HOAs. We have had some of this here in Sun City already!! These types of people are programmed to hate everyone other than their own kind and they take it to their grave. We all know what happens when power is given to the wrong group of people who have been taught with a closed mind where they are right and everyone else is wrong.

 

I don't see why there would be any connection between the agencies. They have totally different areas of responsibility and even when our Posse as affiliated with Maricopa County nothing like what you fear occurred.

 

This subject has been brought up before but it seems there are too many hurdles for it to become a reality. Yes, many would be willing to pay a reasonable amount for police services to better cover Sun City, but there is the problem of how to assess this tax. Are you aware that taxes for services such as fire, street lighting and education are based on the assessed value of your home? One homeowner could pay $100 annually for fire district tax and a homeowner just a block or two away could be taxed $300 annually. Lighting districts to cover street lamppost lighting varies also but at rates from around $30-100 annually. (I'm using very general amounts but you get the point.) Shouldn't the person living in a one bedroom, one bath condo pay the same rate as a 3 bedroom, 2 bath home because they are using the same services?

So, it would be fair to have a flat amount for each living unit in Sun City. I could get behind that. There is also the problem of so much housing in Sun City being totally or partially tax exempt. The most glaring example is Royal Oaks and they are now expanding even more. Minimal fire district tax, educational tax and no lighting tax because they are owned by a religious organization. This is a sore point with me, but they also have access to the RCSC facilities by some arrangement made with management in that Royal Oaks is to pay part of the annual guest fee for any resident that wants to buy a privilege card. How much is taken in? But, the nearly current 800 residents have their own pools, clubs & fitness centers so why buy into the RCSC? They do get to use our bowling centers at just 25 cents more per game and just the small increased amount as guests for golf. A real bonus for them and they even advertise all the RCSC amenities in their website. (This is my Lakes Club type beef.)

Anyway, increased policing good but we should address the problem with the MCSO directly as we are already paying for their services.

 

Some of the reasons I moved here were for low taxes, unincorporated, self-governing, self-determination and a strong 'keep an eye on and lend a hand to your neighbors' philosophy. And I know Sun City has a diverse layout and some areas may be worse than others, but I don't see a problem with crime or traffic. There's a strong mindset that police protect you or prevent crime - and while some of that might be achieved thru patrols and catching repeat offenders, they mostly fill out paperwork after a crime has been committed.

I understand you just asked for comments, but the first step to an actual conversation has to be: show me the data that the surrounding municipalities with police forces have a clear and substantial reduced rate of crime.

 

Well stated aggie and it has been explored before, the problem always being the question of "how much." We know Sun City residents, since the dawn of time (January 1, 1960), have battled any increases and especially taxes. Hell, they went nuts over a 25 cent increase in water rates and a 10 cent increase over bowling lines. Ben's stories are spectacular regarding these little factoids.

The incorporation battle is the classic example of how ugly it can get. 40 years of fighting and the power structure all pushing the idea of becoming a city and the community as a whole pushing back. When SCHOA was perceived to be behind incorporation in the 80's their membership dropped from around 85% to less than half that. John Meeker had a company write the Farrell Report that explained just how "good" it would become if we just incorporated. Allegedly it was "objective." but not really. John always saw incorporation as the community's end game. People living here just saw it as higher taxes.

It's why i get frustrated with the RCSC. They have managed to do what the community has battled so long and so hard against. As an organization, they have taken the corporation and made it the end all be all, members be damned. I suspect if the idea was to create a tax district for policing, we would see an uprising by the bulk of the community, simply on the basis of higher costs. Given what is going on with inflation, costs will once again take front and center stage across the community. That alone might be the best argument against 50 million dollars at Mountainview,

 

I don't see this as a SCHOA issue. I see it as similar to the Fire District with its own governing board. That board would not be SCHOA. This is not an HOA issue in my opinion. It's a Maricopa County issue and we need a way to fund better Law Enforcement coverage. Its an idea that could provide funding to get beyond the geographic scale of the County and the assignment of resources (Sheriff).

 

This is why I started this thread. It's a learning process as to what we could do and what issues need to be addressed. Thanks for your comments.

 

I understand your point regarding taxes. However 3 or 4 Sheriff officers dedicated to our County District is not enough. We have little traffic enforcement. We have delayed response times (exception is Medical response) for common issues - burglary and theft. There are concerns with regards to Homeless and Transients in Sun City. The biggest tax saving for Sun City is NO SCHOOL TAX. Retired citizens on fixed income shouldn't have to pay the HIGH school taxes. School taxes are often much higher than the municipal taxes which cover Police and Fire. We pay for Fire. Why not pay for some better Police protection? Nobody worries about the protection until it does affect them. In my opinion this is not a "Not in my neighborhood" issue. For our population and density, we need more that 3-4 officers providing 24 by 7 coverage. We have more than 3-4 firemen.

 

I would tend to agree. I didn't know how Fire protection is assessed. I can see property value being part of the fire protection cost. But for Police Protection on a residential basis, it could be more fairly done on a per capita basis. Or more simply on a fee per home assuming 1.5 residents. Just a thought. The concept of the Fire District is more of a guide to implementing more specific police protection without the cost of incorporating. Find a way to do something similar to what Youngtown did with the county getting them better coverage. Getting them Flock Cameras, etc. Right now we just compete with all the unincorporated citizens of the county and the vast rural areas of the county.

As for Royal Oaks and the RCSC, that is a different issue. We are a litigious society and that makes many things difficult. Today's Sun City is not geographically isolated as it was int the 60's and 70's. We are surrounded by municipalities with much more population that we have. Our island within this is has different issue. Do we become incorporated? Do we get annexed by a neighboring community (such as Peoria)? Can we keep the School Tax Exemption? Can we keep the Age Restrictions? It's not simple or it would already be done.

There may be an expanded role for the Posse. But the Posse does not have any law enforcement authority. That rests with the Sheriff.

 

Sorry Mike, not trying to give you hard time, but that's a lot of generalized statements and assumptions with no data or facts. Tell me how many traffic injuries we've had or how many per capita burglaries we've had and then cite that same exact data point for our surrounding cities that have a police force. You ask "Why not pay..." and I ask "Why pay if it's not going to do anything except give some people a warm and fuzzy?" Scotch gives me a warm and fuzzy - and it's cheaper... most of the time....

 

Control freak???? You will fit in real well on SCHOA. But what you're trying to slam at us is it needed? Hell No!! With everything going on with the WATER and GOLF and LAKES our dues are going to take a big hit and I think it's going to go up alot.

 

Take a deep breath say what and relax. Mike asked a question that is a legitimate issue within the community. Long before any of this ever came to pass would be the kind of information jeb requested. Comparing local city's around us data to ours would be a great first step. We suspect most of the crimes in Sun City are crimes of opportunity where garage doors are left open or your clubs are stolen off your golf car. That said, it would be nice to know for sure with real data.

 

Actually, our Fire District Taxes cover Fire & Medical protection. I would wager a guess that 95% of the calls to the Sun City Fire Department are for medical assists. So, property value doesn't really enter into the equation. Any person within within the Fire District will receive services if called for medical reasons....anything from a fall to a heart attack. As you know, the Sun City Fire Department also services Youngtown and any local area that calls for assistance. Many who require the services of Sun City Fire & Medical don't pay any Fire District Tax.

I would also agree that many of the crimes in Sun City are due to neglect by residents, but those that forget an occasional step of locking their house or car door shouldn't be subject to theft. The areas outside Sun City experience many more serious crimes at an increased rate. Reporting suspicious activity, being aware of your surroundings, double checking to make sure your doors are locked and picking up any flyers or newspapers in your yard help to show the home is occupied.

This happened a couple months ago. A person collecting garbage from Parks & Sons said to put some rocks on top of the underground garbage can if the house is unoccupied so they can skip it. Now, if a thief knows this trick, you can bet he's looking for those rock-topped trash cans! Don't do it.

 

Guess they know now about rocks

 

I would never minimize someone being broken in to or stuff stolen from garages or off the golf car aggie. I know people are traumatized by it. That said, statistics should matter when we talk about such a dramatic change. The data is out there and as Jeb said, comparing communities with their own police departments against those who use the Maricopa Sheriff's Dept a really good first step.

Here's even a more interesting proposal. Let,s bring back that sense of community Sun City was built under. Let's return to those days when we knew our neighbors, recognized cars not belonging here, showed up at meetings and took ownership. None of that happens by accident. The move away from the City of Volunteers to the Original Fun City shouted to people, don't give a rat's ass, just have fun.