As the numbers of posters dwindles, i find myself struggling to stay enthused about writing and posting on TOSC. Its happened in the past to me, and may well be where i go again. Since buying in Sun City in 1999 and permanently moving here in 2003, i've had one singular objective; help make Sun City a better place to live than it already was. That may sound lofty to some, but i understand how much impact good communication skills can have. Most of my beliefs were predicated on two things. The first was how much a difference i found i could make organizationally in my previous life. We were able to transform our local union by focusing on two key components; education and communication. That coupled with a simple statement that membership was about ownership, we moved the mountain internally from a top down org to one where the bottom drove the bus and the leadership listened. Which is the prefect segue into the second component which inspired me to believe i could help succeed in making Sun City a better place. Our history was nothing short of spectacular. Once i got involved with the Del Webb Museum, I started reading everything i could get me hands on and quickly understood why we were as successful as we had been. The genius behind those that built the community the Del E Webb Development Corporation (DEVCO), realized almost immediately for them to succeed, they would need the community at large involved. It wasn't that old movie theme, "build it and they will come," but build it and make them run it and it might work. Damned if it didn't. It was essentially the same theory i had used in changing our union. People had to be at the core of the process. And i'm not just talking about a handful of individuals, the more involvement, the better the outcome. Growing the circle of committed made it work, not concentrating power in a handful of us thinking we were the end game. The best example i can give you is with one man, John Meeker. He was brilliance personified. He was driven, committed and willing to do things that would have got most employees fired. Failure wasn't an option; Webb put him in Sun City to resurrect the stalling age restricted community and he took no prisoners in doing whatever he needed to get the job done. And that's where the story, the lesson behind his actions have been lost of late. He didn't concentrate the power at the top, he spread it around as much and as large as he could. As smart as he was, he understood his abilities were no match for what the masses could bring if he got buy-in and brought them into the fold. That is what is so troubling to me and why i sound almost bitter (and i am not) about what is happening in Sun City. There are volumes written on this site about the dismantling of our documents and the changes brought on to insure the management and the board control outcomes. It is the exact opposite of what built Sun City. It flies in the face of how and why we succeeded. I guess we can debate it being a different time, a different generation of home buyers, and perhaps our history doesn't matter. I simply would disagree. We know history matters, it always has, it always will. In my humble opinion it is a fools game to ignore how and why we got here. But once again, we are watching, with the latest set of changes to community documents, a movement away from our history and a concentration of even more power to a smaller portion of the community. I know for some reading these latest threads, it sounds personal. Its not. Our history has shown us there's always been disagreement over direction. There's always been at least two sides to every discussion. The problem with going quietly into the night and not speaking out is, then there is only one voice...and at this point, that becomes dangerous to a fault. I just can't get my head around why those we elect refuse to understand our history and how important it is to our future success.
Hi all...and Bill. I'm back and need to catch up on household chores before chiming in here. For some reason while on our extended vacation TOSC wouldn't let me post. I read all the threads and it did seem quite negative, depressing, frustrating and some posts almost over the line. Vacations are great, but it's always so good to be back in Sun City When I have time there are a number of items I'll try to cover but I do think the RCSC Annual Meeting will be posted very shortly. If it is unedited I would be very pleased. If edited, the RCSC BOD and Management should be prepared for a big backlash.
As for posting the Annual Meeting, I would not hold my breath waiting for it. It should have been posted long ago. If it is eventually posted, and it is found to be edited, the big backlash you speak of will be non-existent. There is no longer ANY community involvement in the governing of Sun City. The few who will post here if the video is edited will NOT change a thing. I can see why Bill is frustrated. He is fighting a cause that has very few backers other than those on this forum. History is great and it teaches, but Sun City is changing (or has already changed) and apparently no one wishes to get involved and see Sun City return to its roots. If you look at the home page of this forum, you will note that sticky thread offering free items gets more reads than any other post (probably combined). Sun City is now all about "what can I get for free and not have to be involved". The world is changing and so is Sun City. For the good or bad is the question. If the community cannot or will not get involved then the status quo will reign. In the last 20 years, the only movement against the powers to be that has worked has been the Red For Ed movement that finally got the teachers a raise. A movement like that is never going to happen in Sun City.
Hey aggie, good to see you back. Odd on the posting ability; that makes no sense. Yup, there has been some negative. But i have to tell you there is no room for using outright lies to sell Payne's bill. The RCSC obviously feels very strongly about the legislation, however, making crap up to get support is wrong on virtually every level imaginable. If they do not want to be under T33 they should be able to articulate the reasons clearly supported by the facts. Instead we see BS about kids moving in, the age restrictions gone and somehow inferring Youngtown lost it for similar reasons. We all deserve better than that. I don't disagree with you SCR, we are changing and in my opinion, not for the better. I've spent my life tilting at windmills and frankly i am too damn old to be leading that charge. The best i can muster these days is to speak up when given a forum and write an occasional piece when called upon. I'll give back where and when i can, but at some point people either will join in, or they won't. Unless and until we see slates of candidates run who have a platform of a more progressive plan for community involvement, nothing will change. It will take two elections years where a majority of the board will want to see a movement based on educating, communicating and motivating members in an entirely different manner. Not at all impossible and clearly there is a historical backdrop to do so.
Bill, you are so correct, historically matters. It matters even more right now, in our own back yard. Meeker had a way of bringing the community together and he fought for this community and its residents to become one, a voice in unison. We have the more recent history of a GM who has become so power and control hungry, she will stop at nothing and will mow down anyone who tries to defy her vision of what this community is and will become. Let us look at the Solar Lease and what it has become, let us look at the giant golf pit, and what it has done to the PIF, lets look at the building of the Grand Ave Project and what it will turn out to be. What does all of this have in common? A GM out of control, leading a board of rubber stamps, with her fear mongering and oppression of those who would think differently than she. Yes, it is up to the board to "lead", but when you are leading in a vacuum, clearly controlled by a single person, you are a feckless leader in a nonsense position. We all garnered such hope with the Judge's ruling on the planned communities inclusion of the RCSC. Instead, in recent history, we have lies, distortions of the truth, and legislative bobble heads speaking out about things they can't even effectively elaborate on. So Jan writes the speech for the food truck driver, he spews what he is told, all in an effort to strike fear and loathing in our community. She has all of the tools, the email blasts, the spineless legislator and the certain members of the board which will continue to steer the ship in her direction. The hope is that the four which still have a mind and choose often to voice their opposition to the GM's plan, keep their voice intact. There is hope, more hope then when you and I were board members, this board will finally have the backbone to say out loud it is time to start a search committee for a new GM and follow through. Not for three years from now, but for right now. It is clear she has let her perceived or granted powers go to her head, and must be stopped. Everyone still wants to be a part of this new T33 board, they are just feeling the angst of seeing something almost come to fruition, only to possibly have it snatched away by a power hungry GM.Everyone dearly wants T33 to be given the chance it deserves to bring the much needed change to the RCSC, but, historically, she keeps getting away with it. This GM has gone so far out of her way to exclude the membership and make the BOD the lemmings to the corporation, you can almost see their tails swimming upstream to the board room, to be fed more tripe and like it. There is long term history, that of which Meeker made this a great place, and now we have short term history of the last 10 years, and the kind of destruction one single person in power can do. The board is reminded constantly their duty is to the corporation and the corporation is Jan Ek. The destructiveness of her reign will be felt for years to come, and it is going to take a strong voice to talk us down from the heightened tensions which are about to ensue. Bill, tilting at windmills is a good thing for us when you are in our corner. Those of us who can see what needs to be done, what should be done, and are seeking ways to get it done need the voice of clarity to soothe the the coming wave of change, no matter what face it takes. Whether it be T10 or T33, the edits and and rework of the policies will need someone with a strong voice and a clear view of the history of this community to fight back with words to keep us all on point and with a clear focus. Your voice and sensibilities are needed more now then they have been in a long time. You were the voice of the open meetings for the bands, you were a leader for the dog park, now we need clarity of thought as to how to combat this onslaught of misinformation and blatant lies being spread by the GM. Please do not walk away now, we all hear you, we all want to join in, we are just not sure how to be heard among the din the GM has been putting out. We feel a great urgency to be called into action, but what does this action look like? A letter to the local paper? Done. What other venue to those of us who truly care have to take to make a greater impact? You voice lends itself to create thought and clarity when all feels somewhat helpless. I know, in my heart, the GM's days of being the GM are numbered, with that number being far shorter than she planned. This is when the true work of turning this ship around will begin to take fruition. It will take a decisive voice with the knowledge of the long term history, the short term history and the near term history to ensure the RCSC does not get into this place again. Please do not take you voice away, it is very much needed, it's just everyone is feeling somewhat defeated by the acts of the GM and is not quite sure what to say. We need the history of who we are as a community to be reread to us, from whatever chapter is relevant at the time, to keep us thinking about what we can do to be a small part of this history to make changes which will have a positive effect for the members benefit. Please keep your voice here with the rest of us, and continue to provide the insights and truths as they need to be said. It is obvious where silence has gotten us to.
Funny, there's just days where it seems pointless to post anything. The few of us speaking out sound disgruntled, and the masses mindlessly follow along. I know, it's far easier to just accept whatever we are being fed and not look deeper. Sometimes i chuckle as i type long diatribes and start throwing numbers into the mix; eye glaze over and folks are quickly lost to the discussion. Here's the reality C: People like Jan, because she is likable and capable. She's kept rec assessments increases lower than other communities. In part she did it by charging single owners half again as much as two card holders. Since there are more dual owners (and single grandfathered owners) than individuals paying a per property rate, it will stay that way. But pretending its fair is ignoring what it really is; singles subsidizing couples. The solar, while we bitch about some things will provide a buffer for her budgets. Our utility costs are massive and with average increases of 5% per year, the solar lease was brilliant. Now with the payoff, it will further reduce our yearly costs. The 5.5 million to buy it out, is effectively using PIF to keep those costs flat for years to come. The simple reality is most people living here only look at the RCSC for what it provides versus what it costs. We are a bargain and she has played a major role in doing that. I have never worked with anyone that does a yearly budget like she does, but it works. Giving her huge yearly carryovers and absolute discretion on how and what gets done is far from the norm, but the net for the past two years is no increase...and people love that. The board is whole other discussion. When she was hired, board members were working 10 to 20 hours per week. Over time she has reduced that to a fraction of that. 10 to 20 hours per month would be closer to the average. And lets be honest, the board is there on a voluntary basis and who wants to spend countless hours looking to find answers when she can just give them to them. I get crazed because due diligence is thrown out the window, but that's hardly unusual in a non-profit corporation setting. The rationalization is we pay her, let her do the heavy lifting. Think not, watch a member exchange when the board gets a tough question. It works because it always comes down to small picture Sun City. The community was built, grew and became what it was by thinking big picture. It's about the community as a whole. It's not a microcosm of just golf and golfers, or just the loudest lobbying club, or a board member getting his quid pro quo for carrying her water. It's about long term, how is Sun City best served? What's the long game for growth and community satisfaction...not just how low are rec assessments. Because one day, the single home owners may rebel; then what? One day, golf rounds may suddenly be half what they are to day; then what? One day, organizations we rely on may not have the needed volunteers; then what? Home sales may stagger; then what? So i am clear, the board is solidly behind Jan and this T33 fight. When they finally post the video (roll the eyes and smile), you will see how much they have bought into it. When i asked who saw the email before it was sent asking for support, only the president said he did. When i asked whether they voted on it, they told me point blank they didn't need to, that wasn't their place. Holy crap! Really? They said their job was simply setting policy. Watch the video, it is stunning to see and hear. Which brings me full circle back to the Title 33 debacle. This isn't new to me, Jan and i had this debate on a couple of occasions. I argued by adopting T33 we could strip ARS of her biggest weapon. Jan wanted no part of it. I used a line i lived with in my work life and one that holds true to this day: If you truly believe something is right, then you need be able to articulate it plainly and clearly and people will buy into it. It is so simple it is almost painful in its application. Now, think about how management/board tried to sell us on the importance of staying T10. The minute they reverted to lies and fear, they as much as said we don't have a legitimate argument members will buy into, so we better try the other route. Kind of says it all doesn't it?
"charging single owners half again as much as two card holders." I am a single owner. Please be more specific (use numbers) as to how much singles are paying as apposed to couples. 'Tis a puzzlement'
Just picking out bits that I can really relate to in this post. The following quote bears repeating..... I had almost the same conversation with Kevin Payne nearly a month ago at the SCHOA Legislative Forum. It was important to let him know that more transparency from the RCSC Management & BOD would go a long way to correcting this issue and his bill wouldn't be needed. I even gave him the information to read TOSC so he could see the many discussions regarding RCSC issues. It appears that this bill is plowing ahead as there are 100s more in favor of the bill than those signing up against this piece of legislation.
Each Sun City property is assessed an annual fee. If qualified, up to two(2) deeded owners will be given a member card so that they can take advantage of all RCSC facilities, events & clubs. A property that has only one deeded owner pays the full annual assessment but only gets one card. An additional personal residing on the property(such as an undeeded spouse, life partner, adult child etc.) would have to purchase a privilege card annually at half the current per property assessment if they wish to use the RCSC facilities. Assessing each property the same amount and given that the number of properties in Sun City remains the same it makes knowing the annual income from assessments easy for budgeting purposes. Hope this helps.
I value truth, fairness, and respect for others. I naively thought when I bought in SC that the members basically "owned the RCSC" and that they guided it to provide the members' desires. I read the documents and all looked well. After I owned and began using the facilities I discovered the RCSC was a very territorial and autocratically run entity. Few were open to suggestions. I learned that golf and bowling basically ran the show -- neither activity interested me. I was told that if I didn't like golf, why did I buy here? Well, because there were several hundred other clubs, low taxes, etc. That logic failed, however. The first club I joined talked a good story but the crafts they made were juvenile and their rules were oppressive. The second club I joined was good but the leadership was a clique and discriminated against new members. The 3rd club I approached wanted me to pay/take classes I could have taught. There was an omnipresent attitude -- anything new or a change was to be resisted. And so, I found interests outside SC -- and I became a supporter of activism within SC. It was in the era toward the end of the quorum = 100 era -- the days when the PIF, the cost overruns of Fairway, and insurance on the Sundial roof collapse were hot items. I posted several times a day on the forum we used back then, attended meetings, etc. When the BOD changed the quorum I was irate. The BOD snookered the community then, too. Their story was they "needed to adjust the quorum to be in compliance with the state law", but that was a lie. The corporate documents back then stated that the members needed to approve a change in the quorum -- the BOD changed the quorum anyway, and then they changed the documents and quorum before the next member meeting could make them undo them. They disbanded the member committees, which they deemed to be another source of member threat. Thus, they essentially neutered the membership. Their propaganda was they saved the RCSC from ARS -- I thought, yes, but at what future cost. The bulk of the membership remained oblivious to all of this, babies nursing at the breast of the RCSC. Lemmings as SCR calls them, totally bought into whatever pablum the RCSC gave them in the Sunviews and occasional articles given to Rusty for publication in the Independent. With an unattainable quorum, the members could never regain their voice. I provided info which helped ARS' efforts, but I only supported a few facets of her agenda. I dropped out of the discussion forum because it had become a repetitive rehash of the same issues. That, and there was a constant push to make SC sound great. I didn't deny the greatness, but that in an by itself wouldn't resolve any of the problems in my mind -- that we had an omnipotent BOD/GM who could change the annual assessment to whatever they want, change the PIF to whatever they want, change any rules to protect themselves -- and the membership was effectively powerless. And so, I disengaged. The forum was disbanded (rumored to be at the instigation of the RCSC). 8-10 years go by. I get involved in worthy endeavors outside SC, and I eventually find a few clubs in SC with ideas compatible to my own. I watched Wellman screw up a number of additional projects and sweep the costs of his mistakes under the rugs -- and get promoted to AGM. I watched the PIF assessment grow to nearly 5-times what it was. I watch them target $50 million on golf improvements to a declining sport, purchase a property whose building was so far out of compliance one of the prior occupants decided was too costly to fix. And I'm thinking when will it stop? When will their cover get blown. To my surprise, ARS' lawsuit found funding and was finally having it's day in court. And, this forum gets active about a few things I'm interested in. So I get a little involved again. And I pray T33 becomes a reality before the RCSC commits to more things we will eventually have to pay for. And so here we are today, a membership on the cusp of being even more trivialized and having even less voice in what our MANDATORY funding is and can be used for. YES, I'M DISGRUNTLED -- and no amount of saying what a great place SC is for the $ will fix that. The Titanic was a magnificently appointed ship -- no amount of saying that corrected the underlying bulkhead problems. Would those passengers have sailed if they knew there weren't enough lifeboats?
IC, I hear your angst and feel your pain in your post. You reiterate all of the things the GM/BOD has done to cut the members out of the "membership" equation. Yet, I still don't see it as quite as hopeless as you do. I still trust in the system to do what is right, and believe the suit will bring relief beyond what the GM/BOD is doing now. I know saying something as trivial as "my gut feeling" tells me things are going in the right direction as the suit goes, and there will be a positive outcome from it in the form of a ruling or two which will effectually undue a significant amount of the GM's most recent attempts to neuter the membership. The Plaintiff in the case has asked for an extension for the response to phase 2 of the trial. This request was submitted on 2/26/19. My guess is, after the ARS letter to the DNS, she is expanding the breadth of the suit in regards to the T33 and the planned communities act not being adhered to after the Judge's first ruling. The judge granted the extension, but I have not seen a new date set yet for a new hearing yet. With all of the actions being done by those on this site and those reading these comments, there are attempts to be the opposition to what is occurring now. It is hard to keep faith things will still change, but I know they will, I just cant illiterate as to how all of those changes will come to be. ARS is not giving up, which is why the GM is digging in stronger. ARS has already prevailed in Phase 1 of the trial, and I still feel the Judge will reduce to judgement his order of T33 for the RCSC. Nope, no crystal ball here, just going on faith and trust of the legal system and its ability to right the direction of this ship. I have been known to be in error before, but I am not throwing my hands up in disgust yet over the most recent actions by the GM.I am not disgruntled yet, I am still adamant something will change, even if its the board getting a backbone and starting a search committee for a new GM. This would mean the board is finally growing a backbone and starting to see it needs to be a leader in the process. I know our comments are reaching some on the board and that is a ray of hope in my book. I am beyond angry over the most recent changes being written to the bylaws, but those can be unwritten just as easily as they were penned for this months meeting. It won't happen within the next two months, but it will happen. Maybe sounding a little too Pollyanna this morning, but I still have faith and hope things will be turning around and soon. And those changes will be in the memberships favor. I really can feel a new era coming, and without the GM's further interference.
Thanks for sharing your story IC, now i know why we often see things through the same lens. There is a subtle difference though and it is only fitting to explain what that might be. My life was spent in organized labor (an oxymoron if there ever was one). My life there was a roller coaster ride of the good, the bad and the ugly. After running and beating the president of our local, we rebuilt the local from the ground up. The bad news was, the international took so much money in per capita (about 50% of our revenue), there was never enough left to do what needed to get done for the workers we represented. I wrote volumes on it, spoke out frequently on our failures (other than to the leadership living the good life), and left understanding it was bigger than anything i could "fix." When i found Sun City, it was like a rebirth. It was a giant collective where i/we could make a difference simply by raising our hand and getting involved. Nope, it wasn't perfect, but far and away a better system of governance than i had seen anywhere. It drove me to read everything i could get my hands on. Then when i went to the Museum my eyes really opened. The way we were built, the people who came here and embraced their new home with a fervor to make it work was astonishing. And the genius behind the community, DEVCO, was brilliant at listening to what those living here wanted. More importantly, i came to understand that Sun City and its history was way more than just the RCSC. No question, they are the biggest piece of the puzzle, but in no way the only one. I have written it a hundred times; "Sun City is a sum total of its parts." If i get caught up in the minutia of what the RCSC board does on any given day, it could drive me crazy. The reality i learned in my work life was i cannot control what others do. I can only do what i can do to try and make it better. It's probably the explanation why i don't stop pushing and just lay by the pool and relax. We are as good as it gets, but we can be so much better. Virtually every other age restricted community falls into what i call single-entity governance. One organization controls everything. even Sun City West began to adopt that structure. PORA (their home owners association) handles complaints on their CC&R's, but finally adjudication is done by the RCSCW board. From Sun City Grand forward, the rec board is the end all be all on and for everything. I guess the other saving grace is i am an optimist at heart. I believe that most people that run for the board want to do the right thing. My three years on the RCSC board taught me a lot. Before i got there, I understood the community, the obligations of serving in that capacity and how much we could get done. Where i was caught short was how much the board relied on the GM to be their guiding light. These were intelligent people manipulated to a fault. And so i am clear, we taught people manipulation for the right reasons isn't a bad thing. Why that matters always comes back to the question of the board doing due diligence, in their ability to question and challenge what they are being told. Well run organizations, especially non-profits, are best served when the board and the management are equally strong. If there is an imbalance, we get what we see happening now and for the past several years. Best explained by saying the GM works for the corporation, the board represents the community. Once again, i write too much, but safe to say, at least it helps me understand why i do what i do. Finally, i adopted this simple philosophy: When i look around the country, the world and state of affairs in general, nothing that happens in Sun City on a scale of one to ten is more than a one. That helps me keep in perspective just how insignificant all of this truly is.
Good explanation by aggie above peg. The only exception would be single home owners who are still living in the same house and have since 2003. They are grandfathered. In Sun City West they still charge single owners a single fee while couples pay twice the rate. Their rates have exploded compared to ours with a single owner rate being almost what our full lot assessment rate is. What shocked me there was to see 40% of their properties are held by single owners. If we are anywhere near that percentage in Sun City, it would explain why ours has stayed so much lower than theirs.
