For Those Interested in Robert's Rules

Well, if you attended or watched the Sept. 30th board meeting you will see another board blunder of Robert's Rules at about 1 hour, 11 minutes into the meeting. They are simply too smart by half!

Here's what happened... when they were debating the motion to provide an emergency cancellation of the Annual Membership Meeting; after the motion was made Director Collins wanted to incorrectly table the motion which was finally corrected to postpone the motion until January 2022. However, even a motion to postpone cannot exceed the end of the next meeting (RONR 12th Ed. 8:12;25:13) so the motion was actually out of order, null and void.

Next, and this is where they screwed-up again, if you were paying attention when Director Collins made the motion to postpone the motion, and Director Wilson stated that the motion first needed to be seconded, there was a great pause and nobody wanted to step-up and second the motion.

If the motion was not seconded, it would have simply died just like the motion to change "Shall" to "May" and we wouldn't have to deal with the motion at all.

So there you have it! The board still doesn't understand what they're doing and anybody who tries to explain it to them is wrong! That's why I started and titled this thread the way I did so maybe some of the members of the board can actually learn a few things...that is IF they own a copy of Robert's Rules! They can read it for themselves!

To be continued....

 

Interested in a little “light” reading?!?

Robert's Rules of Order Revised
by General Henry M. Robert
1915 Version, Public Domain
[Editor's Note: The copyright on the original 1915 version has expired. However, the modifications and
enhancements to this work are Copyright © 1996 Constitution Society. Permission is hereby granted to
any person to copy and use this material on a non-profit basis with attribution, and in particular, with the retention of links to the site of the Constitution Society or its successors on the World Wide Web. One of the modifications made to the original document is the substitution for page numbers of section and paragraph numbers, using the format mm:nn, where mm is the section number and nn the paragraph number. Footnotes have been numbered and moved to the end of sections. The Order of Precedence of Motions and the Table of Rules Relating to Motions have also been reformatted and revised to adapt them to the needs of an online document.]

Read all 170 pages here:
https://robertsrules.org/robertsrules.pdf

 

Thanks EYES, and YES, regardless of what one director said about the many versions of Robert's Rules there is only one. It's the 12th Edition which even states "This Twelfth Edition supersedes all previous editions and is intended automatically to become the parliamentary authority in organizations whose bylaws prescribe "Robert's Rules of Order..."

The RCSC provides each board member with their own iPad, perhaps they should also provide each member with a copy of Robert's Rules?

When each new board member takes the oath of office and to comply with the corporate documents, Robert's Rules is included in those documents as its parliamentary authority and must be complied with as well!

 

Just so the members of the board can find the things they should know in one place, I will restate this...

Here's the story: a director was dismissed in a special meeting/session held in executive session. The purpose of the meeting was not specified in the call.

I contend that the director was not really dismissed because the purpose of the meeting was not specified in the call, making it an improperly called meeting. "The only business that can be transacted at a special meeting is that which is stated in the call of the meeting." (see RONR 9:13 & 9:15)

RCSC Bylaws, Article V, Section 5: "Special Sessions of the Board may be called by the President or upon the written request of three (3) or more Board of Directors. The purpose of the meeting shall be stated in the call and posted on the website. Except in cases of emergency, at least seventy-two (72) hours’ notice shall be given."

"The Board may meet in an Executive Session (closed meeting) to discuss confidential matters such as; litigation, matters relating to formation of contracts with third parties, Cardholder discipline and personnel matters. All matters discussed in an Executive Session shall remain confidential indefinitely. Executive Sessions may be called separately or during any meeting of the Board or Membership. The Board has the authority to take final action in Executive Sessions and is not required to reveal those decisions. Minutes of Executive Sessions are retained as a part of the confidential records of the Corporation."

The board believes that since the bylaws specify a (closed meeting) that no purpose was required. YES, the meeting was closed but it was still a special session and still requires a purpose to be stated! They seem to think that an executive session is a separate entity from a special meeting!?!?

Specific names need not be mentioned in the call, but the basic purpose must be specified. The only members who would receive the call for the meeting are those who would be attending the meeting so there is no chance that anything inappropriate would be disclosed to the public.

What the board does not understand is; An executive session isn't a separate type of meeting. It simply refers to a meeting (or portion thereof) in which the proceedings are secret. A regular meeting, special meeting, or an adjourned meeting of either of these, could be held, in whole or in part, in executive session."

Instead of the board asking a legal council to interpret their bylaws and Robert's Rules, perhaps they should ask an actual Parliamentarian?

 

So I understand what you're saying, FYI, but the answer to your question is 'yes' - that's what they think. And I can't see where these POS bylaws necessarily prohibit what they did. I think it's clear what they did was offensive, disrespectful, and ethically/morally wrong - they SHOULD have had an open meeting with breakout exec sessions as needed. Its clear to me they did it because they were ashamed of what they were doing and also knew full well they would never get thru an open meeting doing it. I think we're all aware it was a lynching - pure and simple - but unless you've got them violating an AZ statute, I don't see this as productive. Are you able to draft wording to Section 5 so this doesn't ever happen again?

 

Sorry to say I can't say it any clearer than how I have already stated it! To be clear...this is not simply my "opinion" as is the interpretation of the board. I have corresponded with real live parliamentarians who have explained this to me and in accordance to the rules of parliamentary procedure.

I think the problem is that the board doesn't really understand the concept behind Robert's Rules and what it attempts to achieve by giving everybody a fair chance and protecting those members who may be in the minority.

The board interprets the bylaws in a manner that satisfies and justifies the actions they want to take. I'm sure that IF they actually did seek legal council they only provided them with the information that would garnish them the response they wanted to hear!

Do you honestly think a director should or can be dismissed by a simple vote without providing that director a fair trial or due process? I doubt even the legal council would approve of that? Go look at the RCSC bylaws and see what's necessary to suspend a Cardholder.

My first peeve is that the meeting was improperly called therefor null and void, and my second peeve is how they simply voted director McAdam out of office without due process.

 

All true guys but they simply do not care. FYI is correct, they do and say what fits their narrative. The idea the "attorney" said it was right is the biggest pile of horse manure yet. I would venture to say the attorney has never met them face to face. For the past 15 years, the gm has been the filter through the lens for all things legal. She talks to the attorney and then "relays" what he says. Passive aggressive control types love to have you listen to what they say is right or wrong. Before the current gm, the board meeting with the attorney was the norm. That all changed 15 years ago. Coincidence?

On a different note, i need someone who has signed up lately for TOSC tell if they had an issue becoming a member? Got a text from someone trying to sign-in but it keeps kicking him out with an error message. Help?

 

a screen image of the error message would be helpful.

 

The error message says: "you did not complete the CAPTCHA." I have no idea what that even is SCR, been 15 years since i signed in as a newbie.

 

It is a method that is supposed to verify you are not a robot. There should be a screen asking you to identify all occupancies of a particular object in an image. User has to click on the captcha and then click on the objects in the image.
What is CAPTCHA?
CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart) is a type of security measure known as challenge-response authentication. CAPTCHA helps protect you from spam and password decryption by asking you to complete a simple test that proves you are human and not a computer trying to break into a password protected account.

A CAPTCHA test is made up of two simple parts: a randomly generated sequence of letters and/or numbers that appear as a distorted image, and a text box. To pass a the test and prove your human identity, simply type the characters you see in the image into the text box.

Why does Google use CAPTCHA?

Google is committed to keeping your information safe and secure. CAPTCHA offers protection from remote digital entry by making sure only a human being with the right password can access your account. CAPTCHA works because computers can create a distorted image and process a response, but they can't read or solve the problem the way a human must to pass the test.

Many web services, including Google, use CAPTCHA to help prevent unauthorized account entry. You may also see CAPTCHA on other sites that provide access to sensitive information, such as bank or credit card accounts.

When does Google use CAPTCHA?

Google uses CAPTCHA to strengthen the security around the most sensitive account access points. You may see a CAPTCHA when you:

• Sign up for a new Google service (Gmail, Blogger, YouTube)
• Sign up for any edition of a Google Workspace Account
• Change a password on an existing account
• Setup Google services for a third party device or application (such as iPhone , Outlook, ActiveSync, etc.)

I am having difficulty viewing a CAPTCHA image. What can I do?

If you can’t see a CAPTCHA image or are having trouble reading the text, refresh your browser for a new image.

Although CAPTCHAs normally rely on images, audio versions are available for the visually impaired. To access an audio version, click the link that appears near the text box as the International Symbol of Access image (the wheel-chair icon). The alternate text for this image is, “Listen and then type the numbers you hear.” CAPTCHA is not supported for the deaf-blind community.

 

Damn SCR, that's awesome. I've used it hundreds of times and never known the name. Duh.

 

Dang, tried signing in on my wife's pc and i got the same message. The problem is there is nowhere the CAPTCHA opens and allows for the signer to enter the series of check marks or numbers/letters. If i remember correctly it should be a separate screen that opens to do that. I suspect it it a glitch in their system.

 

I just logged out and logged back in with no issues.
We’re you trying to set up a new account?

 

Yup, i log in no problem. It is for new users trying to sign-in for the first time. Everything works except the option to show you aren't a bot doesn't come up.

 

That may be a bug, but I can’t check because you can’t have 2 ids on this site.
I would like to see a screen shot of the page where the new user is trying to sign in.

 

My suggestion was to make sure their cache had been cleaned, then turn your computer off and on again. That was always what the IT guys where I worked used to say first when we had a problem, "Did you clean your cache?"

 

Turning your computer off and on really does nothing for a cache problem or software problem.

 

Granted, but it never hurts! And it gets your butt out of the chair for a few minutes while you get a snack and a beverage!!

 

Yes - I had an issue creating a new account.

I kept getting this Captcha error"

The Contact Us screen gave the same error so I could not contact the administrator for help. I kept re-reading the link Publishers: How can I fix this? and finally understood what it was saying.

I was trying to access the site with the address talkofsuncity.com so then I finally tried www.talkofsuncity.com - that worked. The redirect command linking the www and non www versions of the url are not set up correctly. so the error appears. You can get around it by accessing the site on www.talkofsuncity.com Strangely enough part of the redirect is set up correctly so it immediately changes the www. address to non www but you are able to create accounts and post images.

Confusing - you betcha!

 

Oops the image posted but was not saved. It read: domain / ckey mismatch (kWvfaV.uF1hSsHKi5FCNafP4uKhemjH)