Follow-up: Mountain View Center Town Hall Presentation,Tues. 9/16/2025

We are shown 5 options. All had a large 400+ seat theater. Could we look at a 296 seat theater like SCW has.

 

First off I would say, there are no problems, only solutions. It's the effort people put into finding solutions that makes things happen.

Secondly, I think something could be said as to why Sun Dial hasn't been proposed in the past. I'll remind you that the, so called and best, first recommendation by triARC was to use the lawn bowling courts at Lakeview! Was that REALLY triARC's recommendation or were they guided to come up with that location by the board? I think it speaks for itself.

It's just my opinion but, just as previous boards wanted to create monuments to themselves, (Grand Center), perhaps this board too wants to create a monument to themselves by creating a PAC.

I think they should just be satisfied enough with finally doing something with MV.

 

My guess is that will be part of the compromise Paul. What we saw was everyone's "i want list."

 

My opinion - for what it's worth.....

Personally, I think we are still "kicking the can."

No one will step up and say.... you're trying to get too much in one center. Something has to go.

Same old, same old.

Jean

 

I dont ever hearing of anything being offered at any time for Sundial. When did the discussion occur about the modification of Sundial? If it was something considered before, what were the issues? Were any plans developed or any contractor contacted?
I ask because if it was discussed, why didnt it proceed? Was this something squashed by a former GM?
Sorry, just curious about why history says Sundial isnt an option.

 

Compromise and civility are essential to making a well-reasoned decision. The cheapest "no frills" option being presented is circa $32M. The PIF budget for the project is $27M so we are $5M over budget before we even start the project. If we do any variation of this project significant projects will need to be eliminated.

The Player's and other groups are likely to be out in force at the meeting.

Let's please be respectful of differing viewpoints.

I have a different view of the feasibility of using Sun Dial for plays but to be honest, I need to see the actual data on how it is used and what impact it would have on other activities to make conclusions. I cannot accept opinions as fact. One of my big concerns is the duplication of very expensive audio-visual equipment that already exists at Sun Dial. This also means we will incur twice the maintenance expense for this equipment, and this stuff is very expensive to maintain.

I appreciate the efforts the Players club puts into their hobby and also appreciate the efforts others put into their hobbies. Everyone wants the best possible space to enjoy their hobby in, and it is no easy task to allocate limited resources among so many hobbies when there is no real strategic plan for RCSC and there is no general manager. As we have seen the allocation discussion often breaks down into something akin to a street brawl among competing groups. I hope this time is different.

We shall see.

John

 

Bill, I am in favor of management exploring Tom's option more deeply. It may work or it may not - I don't know. I feel like folks never seriously considered it and used very high-level arguments to dismiss it. Just one man's opinion.

 

I don't have any skin in this game John; other than i want the best outcome possible for Sun City. From an objective standpoint, we don't need any more studies, surveys or kick the can down the road maneuvers, we need to get the MV remodel done. We can argue/debate what is right and what isn't, which from my perspective is as much, no more about the cost, than who gets their favorite shiny thing.

As an aside, words matter. Trivializing what we are discussing by injecting "hobby" into the discourse is insulting and i suspect you know that.

Mountain View has been and will be an important piece of the puzzle. It's a dump right now and most of us know it. We're well past the point of band-aids to try and resolve just how bad it is. The Grand Center, in retrospect was a vanity project we didn't need. The users who got new space are happy, had we been honest enough to look forward and had a master plan, i would argue we would never have bought the land and built a building that was poorly thought out and poorly executed.

It's not my job to prove the utilization data at Sundial. The RCSC has those numbers but i will tell you Sundial has been the heart of the community. Shoving the Player's in there disrupts it all. It should be and hopefully one day will be Lakeview. Had we developed a master plan, that would already be in the works. We didn't and here we are arguing over the nits and gnats of moving forward.

Looking at what triArc drafted appears to be a reflection of what everyone wanted. I doubt those 5 options look anything like what will eventually be the remodel. Clearly they didn't try and pinch anyone down, they let them just go whole-hog. This board, and any future board has to be realistic about how and where they spend the money. When all is said and done, i suspect you will see the final project course coming in close to the budgeted 27 million dollars.

For that to happen, every one of those "stakeholders" will be disappointed. No one will get it all and some will get nothing. For my money, i'd prefer a multi-use theater seating 300 people with retractable seating. That allows us to be more flexible should theater/performance groups fall bye the bye. In conjunction with that, we need to reconsider all of our flat space utilization figures and find better ways to use them.

No one can predict the future. It's why i rely heavily on the past. Those dumb mistakes we made for years are there for all of us to learn from. There's days i wonder if anyone knows or understands how valuable the past truly is?

Just one man's opinion.

 

Sounds like a marvelous idea! How about if it was attached to a visitors center that was open enough hours for people to actually just drop by at will. Show videos of the histoty of the community with what the future could be if they were a part of this community as well. Have people available to greet and welcome visitors, and perhaps move the card services there as well, so its a one stop location for every thing a current or potential resident could want?
This seems to be a better venture for the members of Sun City, present and future. Just not at Mountainview, but a central location within the community.

 

It was not my intent to trivialize anybody's favorite activity by using the word hobby. Virtually everything we do here in Sun City is a hobby or entertainment. I am bothered by those who say we are kicking the can down the road when the decision to build another performing arts space (complex) is such a huge deal when we have a huge amount of unutilized space we are maintaining and such a fee conscious membership. When the last board looked at allocating PIF funds they said the theater would cost about $14M and now it looks like we are north of $20M. And as we all know projects have a habit of growing...

 

Bill,

I would love to take a look at the scheduled events at Sundial. If you have them, can you send them to me? I am not being argumentative and just want to be an informed member.

Thanks,

John

 

No Tom, the car club wanted to build a monument to themselves just like the players want to build a monument to themselves.
I saw a post here recently regarding the next generation and what they would be looking for in retirement and in the list of top 10 wants, a live theater didn’t place. What does that tell you about this white elephant for what $20M?

 

Some observations from the TRIARC meeting.

I thought an excellent job was done by all!
It was described as a wish list presentation.
The options presented had a wow factor but not the kind you think of - it was wow look how little we get for so much money. If I understood the presentation correctly, members would bet new buildings serving the same purpose as is currently served by existing buildings.
I hoped there would be a better turn out but maybe folk are not that interested in what happens or don't feel their opinion matters.
There was a suggestion that a straw poll be taken of the members, and board president Tom Foster was hesitant on taking one but may talk to his board colleagues about that.
Triarc's cost estimates of $500 to $600 per square foot was much lower than the SAC heard but they said they could do it for that.
Triarc said the Board had the actual player's club usage figures, but they were not used in the analysis. Why?
A number of questions revolved around projected use of the planned amenities, and I was unclear whether the Board was going to make these projections. The big question is how many performances there will be in the new theater and how many people will attend. Apparently, Connie Joe Richtmyer provided this estimate, but, as far as I know, it was never shown to the members.
Members, including me, are getting tired of hearing about this, and i have a great compromise solution that even I would support... Stay tuned...

 

John,
Thank you for speaking and sharing this evening. Great new look!
I believe the turnout is low due to the fact that many folks feel that this is a local center and these are their issues. Some people may not even know where Mountainview is located. For those folks, this issue doesn’t feel like their issue. So many people don’t even use the rec centers, so these issues don’t even resonate with them.
I look forward to hearing more soon before choices are made that affect the community and the community funding. Here’s hoping for an informed and quantitative approach to the decision at hand.

 

John & CM,

Maybe the low turnout was because it was held during the dinner hour when normal people eat.

As for Player and all around performance (other arts clubs), the hand out was revealing as for performance the use rate was 28% with community outreach interest at 32%. Players checked in as to use at 28% and community interest at 32%. Since these clubs and Players would not be utilizing the in a continguous manner, is it time to talk about Taj Mahal and white elephants since the construction costs are clocking in between $38-$42M and a projected construction time of close to 2 years when the space would not be generating revenue.

Just an early quick analysis and please no more friggin data, NASA doesn’t generate this much and they are talking about going to Mars.

 

Another initial observation is that RCSC is willing to move performance groups who are already happy performing at Sun Dial to the new theater building in order to justify building it. Moreover, TRIARC indicated the board has the players usage statistics but chose not to show them to the members. $32M is a lot of money!

 

John,
Just to clear my point up, the figure I quoted was for the entire project not just the theater. I believe the theater is going to cost between $20-$22M.
I saw Tom Marone at the presentation and I would seriously like to know his views as he has construction project experience and maybe compare notes.

 

My first concern is that I sincerely hope Tom Foster sticks to his guns regarding the original budget that approved those PIF funds for the project. This goes back to my belief that, IMHO, we didn't need an 8th Recreation Center at Grand, and since Fairway is less than 1 mile away from MV, perhaps we should take a more minimal look at what is needed or required at MV?

Once we know what we can get for that $28 million dollars we'll know more. I just hope they're not stuck on just those 5 Options!

 

That presentation was the ole Bait and Switch routine.
Jean

 

Several have mentioned the need to compromise. Here’s a simple solution. Level MV, fill in the pool and build your PAC with a flat floor and retractable risers. Get realistic in your expectations. Continually expecting to raise the PIF to satisfy your pipe dreams is ludicrous.