Does It Matter????

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    3 or 4 years back a president of the RCSC wrote a column in the Sun Views (back when they still distributed it to the members) where he openly questioned why the RCSC needed to have an annual membership meeting. He implied because we never met the threshold of the quorum number of 1250 apparently everyone was happy. The supposition was because of that, holding such a meeting was unimportant. One man's point of view.

    The other day at the board meeting i had a chance to ask the exiting gm; why so little financial information was inaccessible on the website. She told me 2 things; lots of stuff was on the site and what wasn't there would be too much to have to put there. Really? Unless i live in a cave, storing unlimited data that people could see and that is computer generated is simply a function of a series of key strokes.

    I have in hand financial data that as i sifted through it, found myself going, "holy shit." I'm not even sure i saw it when i was a board member, let alone a "cardholder" (as she likes to call us). All of which sent me scurrying to the RCSC website to actually see how much financial data i could find.

    I hate to get all technical on you, but i found bupkis (by the way, a Yiddish term which means nonsense or nothing). To be fair, there was some really homogenized data with stuff to make me feel good without saying anything. I even went back to the 2020 membership meeting video (that wasn't) and watched the presentation to the members on our financials, same old sanitized version of what we see every board meeting.

    The common refrain is, "all departments are on budget." Awesome, i guess. I learned long ago the devil is always in the detail, always. Sadly, when you know none of the details, then the washed version of what we get is enough...but is it?

    It would be easy to tell you as long as there is no increase in our lot assessment, who cares? Does it matter what goes on under the covers? Should we just be happy with no increase and ignore the minutia of how and where the money is being spent? Should we be happy there is no membership meeting?

    Obviously i want to hear others thoughts before i continue. Feel free to chime in.
     
    Cheri Marchio likes this.
  2. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    All financial data should be available on the web site. I'm sure it is all done be computer and it is a simple matter to create a PDF of the financial data and post the PDF for download.
    I never liked the financial data printed in the Sun Views as you need multiple magnifying glasses to read it. Old folks don't have the best eyesight.

    Stating that all departments are on budget is not good enough. Lets see the REAL DATA.

    The data may be collected by pencil and paper but it is all fed into a computer. Every bit of data used to create the financial report should be scanned and saved for historical purposes.

    From Bill "It would be easy to tell you as long as there is no increase in our lot assessment, who cares? Does it matter what goes on under the covers? Should we just be happy with no increase and ignore the minutia of how and where the money is being spent? Should we be happy there is no membership meeting?"

    These are questions to ask the board candidates.
     
    BPearson likes this.
  3. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    I've said it before and I'll say it again....

    Although there are several opinions on what constitutes a quorum, the one I like best and would seem to suit our needs would be too set the number of attendees that would constitute a quorum at a level that you can reasonably expect to show up at the meeting. So as far as the RCSC and our Annual Membership Meetings go, I would suggest a quorum of perhaps 300 with the caveat we have 3 meetings a year.

    The way I see it, if the Membership passes a bad motion it would surly attract more Members at the next meeting that would rescind or amend the bad motion before any real damage was done. I also believe that if things were actually getting accomplished at those meetings the interest and attendance would also increase? Nobody attends our Annual Membership meetings now because nothing ever gets done!!!!

    And YES, the RCSC needs to be more transparent with their financial reports. If it weren't for Bill most Members wouldn't know that many of the maintenance costs for the golf courses are bundled into the rec centers and that's how they keep the real cost of golf hidden! All costs relating to golf must be charged to golf!
     
    Cheri Marchio likes this.
  4. Cheri Marchio

    Cheri Marchio Active Member

    Ha! I once had a client proud as punch tell me his "balance sheet balanced".

    The devil is in the details. Financial data should be easily accessible whether through website or portal.
     
  5. Cheri Marchio

    Cheri Marchio Active Member

    From transparency comes trust.
     
    Michael Wendel, BPearson and eyesopen like this.
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    If that were only the case Cheri, if that were only the case.
     
  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    As both Cheri and FYI said above, all information relative to the costs of running the community should be available simply by looking at the RCSC website. Why should anything be a secret? Why should only board members have access to the data? If there is nothing to hide, why make it an act of God to go beg the powers that be for access?

    Anyone who has followed TOSC for any length of time, knows the gm changed to a per lot payment rather than a per person per property payment. The argument goes that was the only way to be able to make reasonable assessments of the yearly income. I have no interest in debating that here. I do however want to make a point using the gm's own argument.

    We know the cost for a round of golf during Nov through April for members paying on a cash basis is $33 ($20 during the summer months). One can only assume those figures are set based on a financial computation as being the "real" cost for a round of golf. We also know anyone buying a full play pass for $1550 pays far less for a round of golf. We did the math in another thread, but for simplicity sake, 100 rounds per year is $15.50 per round; 200 rounds per year is $7.75 per round; 300 rounds per year is a ridiculous $5.17 per round. Throw in all of the rounds played by employees (they used to get free golf as a perk, don't know if they now pay a surcharge?) and at the end of the day, we have X number of rounds played.

    If you have been going to meetings of late, you've seen or heard about how rounds of play was way up last year during the pandemic. It should have been, because it was the only game in town (literally). They've been touting that as some sort of signal that golf was on the rise. Here's the problem; if in fact the bulk of the golf rounds were payed for by people buying the full play pass or even those buying the surcharge annual golf pass, less than half the rounds played came in well under the $33 valuation put on a round of golf.

    The simply reality is we have no idea how any of that breaks down. It's nowhere to be found on anything we see online. Even the numbers the board gets are simple composite data numbers for golf that provides totals. I suspect the management team has that information and frankly it should be shared with both the board and the community at large. If this were a private corporation where the owners of the course were singularly responsible for their profitability, it would be none of our business.

    The fact is, we are the owners. The general manager works for the board. His/her job performance should be held accountable by the board. There shouldn't be any numbers, anywhere that are "confidential." Sorry, but we have let them over the past 15 years perpetuate the myth that the board has some sort of loyalty oath to the gm and the RCSC. They (the board) loves to quote the by-laws as their rational, but the Articles of Incorporation are the highest standing document and they mandate the board has an obligation to the membership, not the management team.

    By the way Mr. Hoffer, the by-laws cannot be written to be in conflict with the Articles of Incorporation. You may need to have a discussion with the gm regarding said matter. While you are at it, have her figure out exactly to the penny how much the RCSC is being paid for a round of golf, that's the only way you will ever get your hands and head around how much a round of golf should truly cost.
     
  8. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I was going to go into detail on the differences in the board's golf yearly worksheet compared to what you will see in the summary of the financials. Suffice to say, what they show you are watered down versions of what they give the board. Sadly, even what they give the board isn't adequate to make the kinds of decisions that should be being made.
     
    Cheri Marchio likes this.
  9. Cheri Marchio

    Cheri Marchio Active Member

    From the RCSC website https://suncityaz.org/committees-2/

    11. What does the Finance, Budget & Auditing Committee do?

    It is the purpose of the Finance & Budget Committee to review, at least quarterly, the financial performance year-to-date of the operation in comparison to budget and the previous year, advise the Board of Directors of any concerns it has regarding the financial operations, and review and make recommendations regarding the annual operating and capital budget. Chartered Clubs may be audited at the discretion of the Committee.

    12. What does the Golf Advisory Committee do?

    It is the purpose of the Golf Advisory Committee to assist in the promotion of golf at the RCSC golf courses, help maintain interest in the game of golf, encourage fellowship amount the golfing community, gather input from the golfing community, review and recommend golfing policies, fees, capital improvement, and operational changes, and conduct inspections of golf courses. The Golf Advisory Committee is made up of two members of each golf course’s Green Committee, one male and one female, and the presidents of the golf associations in Sun City.

    I am a newbie to many things. Can someone educate me on these points please.

    My questions are - are these committee members given the full financial picture? If not, why? Secondly, what are the guidelines regarding golf fees, policies and capital improvements? Are there job or position descriptions for Committee members?
     
  10. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Great questions Cheri, never served on either and if i went to one of their meetings, i don't remember it. Maybe someone who is on or has served on one or the other would like to fill us in. I think the one thing we know is they certainly aren't recommending what needs to be done to get golf self-sustaining. No increases in the passes and some increase to daily fees. So basically those paying the full price for a round of golf are subsidizing those with passes...as well as all of us that don't golf.
     
    Cheri Marchio likes this.

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