Do You Know?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, May 11, 2022.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Woke up at 4 am this morning and crawled out of bed, i couldn't sleep. I was restless. I get that way when stuff eats at me. I've been troubled since i left the member/board exchange meeting on Monday and it's gone down hill since then.

    It actually started a month or two ago. Things have been done far beyond the norm of how Sun City has been run for the past 15 years, and now it's getting worse. I had hoped it would improve after the fiasco of 2021, but clearly it hasn't.

    I've encouraged the Sun City Advocates to slow down and give them a chance. I've cautioned people that all change is slow. I've pointed out articles the board president has written begging us to give them a chance to show us, we can all work together. I took her at face value.

    I lived and worked in a world of compromise. Every negotiation was just that. Finding ways to working together was crucial. Trying to overlay that in Sun City has been challenging. Since the changes made over the years to the bylaws have stripped members of their rights, we've pretty much been held hostage to whatever they want.

    My hope was the new general manager would see the value of listening to the membership. Last year, 2021, was butt ugly. I was hopeful everyone learned from it; everyone. Clearly the message they sent was they had, but did they really?

    Stay tuned, this will get more interesting as we dig.
  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Lots of ways to go with this discourse and i am hopeful it can stay civil. I do my best work when i'm nice and not half crazed by foolishness. Time will tell, but the vibe around doesn't bode well for that happening. I desperately want to believe all the wonderful articles the board president has written telling us we should all work together, but as we all know words are just words, actions and outcomes are really the measuring stick we all use.

    Let me just tickle around the edges on a topic that caused a fair amount of angst between the Sun City Advocates. Let me frame it this way, in the form of a question that i want you to answer by putting yourself in another person's shoes: What would you do if you were suspended from using the RCSC facilities for 1 year? Mind you, you still have to pay your $496 but you wouldn't be able to walk on RCSC property. And then, what if i told you it was for something that happened 20 plus miles outside of Sun City and that in fact it was a location where they actually let you come in and talk to them about a project in Sun City. Mind you, they could have refused you access, but they let you make an appointment and come in and chat?

    Bottom line; kicked out for one year. Think about that for a minute or four.
  3. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    You need to tickle a bit more. Did this person get a fair hearing? Did this infraction concern non-public information that was gained and signed for under a non-disclosure agreement? Was this a legal matter? Paying the annual assessment is reasonable during a suspension but that doesn't appear to be the issue. Can't kick this around to any conclusion with so little information.

    I'm pleased with the decorum at the Member/Board Meetings so far. I do agree with Ben that a podium is needed. There may not have been many members present, but already there have been 450 views on YouTube in just one day! People are tuning in and now we need to keep up the request to have Committee Meetings recorded.
  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    All good and fair questions aggie and at some point details may matter, For now, i'm just curious what you would do and how would feel. And to help you out here's a few of the answers to questions: Did this person get a fair hearing? Define fair. Does that include objective? Impartial? No predetermined outcome? If so, NO. Did the information concern nonpublic information. Obviously not if the company opted to give it to them. Was it a legal matter? The question really is did they run to their attorney and ask if they should suspend them? i'm sure the answer is yes, just like he always does when the board or the general manager wants something. As far as a legal matter, hardly.

    Hope that helps.
  5. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Sometimes the RCSC gives information that is deemed only for the eyes of the person receiving the information. Isn't there a form that has to be signed stating this NDA? It's hard to figure out this action without more information. I'd suppose the person could go to his own attorney and file a civil suit for the amount of assessment since they aren't allowed to use the facilities but the cost probably not worth it.

    As an aside, if you are suspended and not allowed to set foot on RCSC property, are you still allowed to use the Maricopa County leased public libraries at the two RCSC locations? How about voting if that is your assigned place?
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    All reasonable comments aggie and the reality is the company in question should have just told the member we can't talk to you; sorry. Maybe the company that let them in the door should be suspended for a year.

    Let's keep this thread going with some "what would you do?" What would you do if you were an RCSC club with dedicated space and had been asking for improvements for years. For those that don't know, clubs put in a yearly request for improvements right about now. Sometimes that get them, sometimes they just keep asking for them, year after year. Sometimes they just give up.

    Here's where this gets interesting to me; who approves those capital improvements? The board? The general manager? Some guy sitting in an office with a really classy pocket protector? I know, i'm being facetious, but i honestly don't know. I know what the bylaws used to say. I have no idea who makes the decisions now?

    The bigger problem, by the way, is clubs are in an awkward position because if they piss and moan, the RCSC can react. The even bigger problem is we now know the yearly carry forward has been massive the past 12 years and those funds were collected to be spent on said improvements. And, here's the real irony, golf which was supposed to be self-sustaining has gotten 25 million dollars from those yearly dues collected in the last 12 years...which arguably should have gone to the clubs requesting them. Or, they could have the decency to let the membership decide on subsidizing golf which i think they should.

    Of course if you are an organization who just does what you want, maybe none of this matters. There is that one pesky problem, the Articles of Incorporation are pretty clear...unless you just ignore them or write bylaws that conflict with them.
  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Let's be really honest here and admit, being on the board is a really, really hard job. Their obligations as a fiduciary are staggering. When they take their oath they have a whole new level of knowledge they must attain, especially when it comes to finances. They need to be able to drill down and know what and how our money is being spent. It's one of the reasons i've asked so much about golf. It became apparent the board had no clue regarding golf questions raised; it was like watching the deer in the headlights.

    The good news is we now know the board met and apparently were given volumes of data. When i questioned them, they quickly turned to the director of golf. They may have been in the room for the presentation but i don't know how much they understood about what they were told. Obviously not enough, because they ignored addressing both questions; outside number of rounds played, how much those outsiders were paying and being able to schedule tee times just like a member. Maybe they'll deal with it at the next board meeting.

    The next question regarding finances is one i've heard rumors of. No idea if it is true, but if my large backside was on the board i would want an answer. When the second building at Grand Avenue was built, the one housing the Vintage Car Club, word is changes were made. A couple of the guys at the club helped design the plans with what they needed, wanted and would best serve the members. Apparently someone took a pen to blueprint and made changes to save a couple of bucks. Several red lined items but the one easiest for the board to verify is the 8 foot door that was changed from 16 feet. No big deal except by the time someone caught it, the 8 foot door was in place. If the story is true, they had to come in and rip out the header and replace it all. A significant cost to the RCSC, which by the way, is us.

    One has to wonder, did that employee get written up? Fired? Were they qualified to even make those changes? How does someone get that kind of authority to do that? All real question for the board to be asking. Are they? There's so much more going on than just that. Long serviced employees being fired, RCSC members being written up for making faces for just a few.

    And that's before we even start digging into the whole question of our IT being the dregs of technology. So many real questions, so little effort to sort it out.
  8. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Yeah, and is it a coincidence that the same guy who apparently was once in charge of the failed IT was also involved in the garage door incident?

    It's kinda like the Peter Principle. People just keep getting moved up the corporate ladder until they end up in a position that they are no longer competent at. Funny thing is, the person in question had moved up the corporate ladder but was then shown the way back down! And now we have Bill Cook! The last graduate from the school of Peter Principle!
    eyesopen, OneDayAtATime and BPearson like this.
  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Spot on FYI. Let me think about the suggestion by Bill Cook during the IT presentation; "the state of our technology wasn't anyone's fault." Really? Let me restate that; Freaking really? Therein is the logic of an organization where the primary trait of your survival is loyalty. Of course it was someones fault. The old adage, the buck stops here is exactly how it should work. The person at the top of the heap, and then the person running the department should have been held accountable. Let's see, that would have been the general manager and the head of the IT dept. Duh.

    And to be clear, the board too is culpable. Their job is oversight. Their role is to hold those in positions of power accountable. Instead they ate the shit sandwich the gm fed them called "loyalty." You couldn't hold anyone's feet to the fire because you wouldn't be loyal to the organization. Stop and think back to the report we saw regarding our technology; a huge number of printers, only a couple of them workable; inadequately marked wiring; programs and other hardware well past their expiration date; an inability to install any real security measures across the amenities scattered about Sun City. The depth and breath of the manure pile is almost unimaginable.

    But hey, it's nobody's fault.

    Someone asked me why i was on "fire" yesterday. It's pretty simple, it started with my disappointment from the responses at the Member/Board Exchange. I fully expected more meat on the bone. There was very little. Then when i got home that night i saw a bullshit write-up from the RCSC to a person who goes out of her way to be nice. It gets way more complicated and ugly than that, and soon we'll be sharing the details with you.

    It went from bad to worse on Tuesday when a long time RCSC employee was fired by the general manager. Myrna DeBruyne. She's been around a long time as the clubs coordinator. She was there while i was on the board and chair of the committee. Myrna was well liked and was more than capable in a job where someone is almost always angry at you. Refereeing complaints within clubs is never easy, but she filled the balancing act nicely.

    The oddity was the decision to fire her was based on an idiotic, poorly thought out motion made at the last board meeting. Sitting in the room when it was made i turned to my friend Ben and said, this is really dumb. Apparently a board member got her shorts in a bunch over a departed club officer who wouldn't turn over the records when he left. Rather than talking to Myrna about it, the board member just dumped it on the table for the boards consideration. Note to board, when an officer leaves office, everything, EVERYTHING should be turned over to the club. Those records belong to the club, not the angry officer. Simple enough; return the data to the clubs or you will be suspended until you do.

    I won't bore you with the details. Suffice to say the anger from clubs about her being fired was significant. And dare i say, her new boss (the same guy who wrote up the member for making faces at a committee meeting), was also the head of the failed technology dept and the same guy who removed the doors at the Vintage Vehicle building that they had to pay to have put back in. Hence my frustration. Loyalty is rewarded, competence is not.

    The real question still is; does the RCSC really care what members think? Or is the general manager the only one that should have an opinion?
  10. Cheri Marchio

    Cheri Marchio Member

    Ha! I used to work with a former school superintendent who called shuffling his inadequate teachers around into new positions 'the dance of the lemons'. Kind of fits here too.

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