92...really?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Feb 2, 2025 at 10:47 AM.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    That's the one fly in the ointment when it comes to calculating sales from the MLS records and what the RCSC may take in from whenever there is a 51% change in ownership via inheritance or deed transfers that trigger the payment Cheryl. One could do a lot of digging through the yearly PIF collected (it's posted on their website under financials), but as we know, the PIF has been increased a number of times and so you would need to know the amount and divide it by the total collected...and even then it wouldn't be perfect because there are always delinquents.

    I've listened for years as really smart people have argued it didn't matter how high PIF was. Hell back in 2010 there were board members arguing to just bump it up to whatever we wanted. Folly then, perhaps folly still? As Larry pointed out above, between PIF, CIF and the yearly lot assessment, we have to ask, are we too high now?

    I know i'd feel a hell of a lot better if we made a concerted effort to make new home owners feel more welcome than we do. Instead, we do the bare minimum.

    I'll address some of this tomorrow in a new thread.
     
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  2. Cheryl

    Cheryl Member

    Since the first of the year we have begun chatting about this with clients we meet at open houses, etc.

    We have comments as there is a perception that sun city west is now lower. We explain that it is a per person fee vs here it is up to 2 on deed.

    The combined new PIF ($4000) and CIF ($1500) have been the topic of commentary. Just Friday I had a realtor call me. They were in the process of writing an offer on a phase 1, 2br 2ba nicely updated condo we have listed. He wanted to know if I knew what the heck I was talking about because the last time he sold in here it was 3500 and 463. I patiently explained the fees had been increasing in the past couple of years and he was in disbelief. I pointed him to rec center web site to verify that I was correct. The result: they decided not to proceed with the purchase due to the fees. Comments that the fees are increasing at increased velocity and caused concern about the future of the fees.

    We could argue that there isn't another community less expensive than ours. We could argue that we have the most amenities.

    Another high level look: buyers coming here are commenting on the appearance of aging properties. I point out the revitalization all around us and how malleable these properties are. The rebuttal: on a high level many want homes that are not surrounded by some homes that clearly show their age.

    Last point: held an open house yesterday near Bell rec center. We educate people on the community, amenities, etc. I sent 5 to 7 groups to Bell just yesterday to check out the pools. Pools are the number 1 amenity women and most people want here. Imagine my chagrin when I saw posts on the state of the pool lounges at Bell. Please Mr and Mrs Buyers: go to our flagship center. Gaze upon the splendor of the pool chaises.

    The rec centers need to prioritize keeping our public facing areas attractive and inviting. That should be job 1. We have the amenities, can we step up our game?

    Also! I hear: we follow social media! What's going on with the budget? Is that why fees are going up? Why are there so many problems? I try to give them a high level education on being over budget and and perceived "debt" or that Sun City " lost money". A budget is a projection of income and expense and a guiderail for management to ensure we stay on track. Sun City is not in debt. Management went over budget however the community is still in a decent cash position.

    Anyway, this is a longer than intended report from the front. Also.every year we see homes that were for rent go up for sale. Some are over priced. When mid January rolls around they tend to cancel the listing, pull out the for lease sign, and wait for next year.

    My apologies for the length.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2025 at 10:35 PM
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  3. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    I can't imagine all of the recent controversy helps draw potential residents into Sun City. Petitions, resignations of Board members, and firing of General Managers doesn't add to a a reputable image. Let's work together rather than split over issues that can be resolved.
     
  4. Cheryl

    Cheryl Member

    Agreed. It's the people here that make this community shine. Not shiny houses, not who you were or your net worth. There are the best, most genuine people in this community and that sets us apart.

    Alas, if you are one of those people that define your social status through your house or scorn of others looks, fashion, past career, etc. There are plenty of other communities that can help those people fulfill their dreams. I value people. But. The social media complaints do not help and many convey misunderstood false information that pushes others off.

    But. During these months, the snowbirds months: we should shine.
     
  5. John Fast

    John Fast Well-Known Member

    Thanks Cheryl. I learned a great deal from your comments. I was wondering if you are seeing any kind of trend where folks are moving to Sun City because it is the cheapest safe place to live in the Phoenix area? My neighbors both fit that profile but there are many other folks who are snowbirds, full time residents or have other reasons for living here.

    I am a huge proponent of requiring RCSC to hire an expert urban planner on a long-term basis for the next phase of Sun City's existence. We desperately need to get a member approved master plan in place and lack the expertise to do so. We have been on this new board new plan merry go round for way too long. Wouldn't it be a great sales tool to show perspective members that we have a member endorsed professionally developed plan in place?

    Please encourage all you know to attend the Annual Membership meeting March 11 at Sun Dial. Registration begins at 5:00. There is a proxy collection drive going on to allow members to have their voices heard even if they cannot attend.
     
  6. Eileen McCarty

    Eileen McCarty Active Member


    Hi Bill,
    I too am concerned about the community turning into a large rental community. Without direct home ownership the community is being used as a large playground for those who come in and rent for 4 months. The reason why this is concerning is there is no true stake in the function and state of the community, as we know it as owners. The heavy usage of facilities without a financial commitment to the place, and also we need to address this, the many advanced seniors living on ss incomes only and not able to afford the increasing yearly fee. I am wondering if something needs to be addressed about this. The reason why this is on the increase is that SC had very cheap housing some 15 years ago. It allowed folks to move in on very modest incomes. Now, maybe there spouse is deceased and they are struggling to just maintain. I have neighbors living around me in this very place. I am concerned about these folks.
    I do like very much your idea of publishing again maybe a 4 times a year magazine to really promote our strengths and the community in order to capture new money, homebuyers. We need actual home buyers to help keep the community viable. Have a great day!
     
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  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Great comments Eileen and you'll be interested in my latest thread. One of the things we have failed to do is have and hold open forums where we talk candidly about our future and what we as a community should be doing. Everyone tends to get butt hurt when questions are asked when in fact blunt discussions aren't about how we got here, but where we are headed...and more importantly, how we get there.

    It's why i have always maintained my focus on "big picture Sun City, not small picture RCSC.
     
  8. John Fast

    John Fast Well-Known Member

    Amen to the big picture and having a plan, Bill! I have been out talking to as many people as I can about whether they want the right to vote on the big stuff once a year at the annual membership meeting. Almost universally, members want the right to vote on the big picture stuff and don't care that much about the small stuff. Long ago I became a firm believer that a constituency is more committed to a cause if they are involved and informed. I believe the angry apathy I hear in many of my dialogue sessions may be a result of the members being told about the outcome the Board has arrived at and not involved in that outcome. Based on my Board experience I can see their point.

    I say it is about time RCSC actively seek membership voting on the big stuff. It won't be perfect but that is not the goal. The goal is to be better.
     
  9. Eileen McCarty

    Eileen McCarty Active Member

     
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  10. Josie P

    Josie P Well-Known Member

    "allow members to come to Rec centers and write down what they want to see"

    This has been done. One of the top requests was a cyber cafe. I am not aware of a report has been done to let the members know what has been done for them in response to this survey. I believe the cost for this was in the $10k range.

    ASU/RCSC Survey-Community Involvement – Recreation Centers of Sun City AZ
     
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  11. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Yes, but 3 data points do!
    Looks like it's an issue that definitely needs attention when compiling a budget.
     
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  12. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    Please tell anyone struggling to make the annual RCSC assessment to apply to the Sun City Foundation for help. We have streamlined the process so the paperwork is not as burdensome or intrusive.
     
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  13. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    I was at Fairway recently and looked over the vacated spot from the old reception desk. I think that would be a perfect spot for a cyber cafe and coffee shop. The outdoor patio is there, too.
    John,
    My advice, although unsolicited, is be careful what you ask for when recommending that the Members vote on large scale projects. While it sounds logical, I am afraid that we will end up never passing anything, resulting in the costs of maintenance increasing and our facilities continuing to deteriorate. My experience with bond issues are they are very hard to pass. People find every reason to vote against something - it is too much money, they should spend more, too many pickleball courts, not enough pickleball courts, etc.

    Janet
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2025 at 10:16 PM
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  14. Geoffrey de Villehardouin

    Geoffrey de Villehardouin Well-Known Member

    Bill,
    While the numbers you posted are intriguing, the five highest sales listed was the result of an extremely low interest rate, almost zero. The rates on home sales were about 1.5-3% which in today’s market would almost be free money. Currently the interest rate on houses is around 6.5%+. This is what is depressing the housing market, especially after down payment of 10% and then closing costs where everyone has their finger in the pie. Add to this that the Fed wants to keep discount rate where it is for the foreseeable future. Not a truly grim picture but not a happy one either.
     
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  15. Tom Trepanier

    Tom Trepanier Well-Known Member

    I would love to see an average for each ten year period , say for the last 5 decades. Bill maybe your source could help with these numbers. For the data given for the last 10 years, the average is 1987.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2025 at 4:09 PM
  16. John Fast

    John Fast Well-Known Member

    Janet,

    Good words to the wise. I have tried to craft the bylaw amendments, so the plan alternatives come somewhat unfiltered from an expert and the question is not whether to spend money but what to spend it on. I will keep this in mind as I refine the draft.

    John
     
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  17. Eileen McCarty

    Eileen McCarty Active Member

  18. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the cleanup on my data Cheryl. Someone else noted it on FB, which i appreciate. Not sure how i overpriced the two PIF and CIF. I know when i was sitting in on the Budget and Finance committee meetings they were talking about $1000 to each. Turns out they put $1500 in CIF and $500 added to the PIF. And so that means that new buyer is only paying: $4000 PIF, $1500 CIF, $650 lot assessment, and $300 transfer fee for a total of $6,450.
     
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  19. Josie P

    Josie P Well-Known Member

    Add closing costs and realtor commissions. I know SC does not control those fees, but they are part of purchasing a home and need to be considered when budgeting.
     

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