Corner lots...

We've talked about this before, but of late it's become more relevant for my wife and I. As we have been shopping for another home in Sun City (for rental purposes and eventually downsize to), our focus has been on corner, larger lots. Not to say the home isn't important, but when we decide to move we will redo it to suit our needs.

Before i move on, let's look at this from a historical perspective. Golf course lots have always had a premium attached to them. When Sun City opened it was $1250. In 1975, it had exploded to a tad under $10,000. Lots with 85 feet of frontage were called "A" lots and went for $10,490. Lake lots were in a class by themselves ranging from $10,000 to $17,000.

By 1975 corner lots were selling for a $500 premium, unless it had more than 85 feet and if it did it also was considered an "A" lot with an additional $500 tacked on. It's interesting to note, because it doesn't appear people are paying attention to lot size or whether its on a corner or not.

I suspct some of that is due the fact many Sun City home buyers have been more focused on smaller lots with less maintenance and more concerned on how many fruit trees it had on it. Curious how boomers are changing that kind of thinking.

I've posted pictures in other threads of recent buyers who have taken advantage of corner lots by adding free-standing one and two car garages. Or in some cases simply adding on to the existing house by attaching more square footage with access from the street-side.

Another phenomena of late has been the interest in younger buyers wanting their own pool. There's 7 community pools (1 indoor) included with ownership, so pools haven't been of much interest. It appears that mindset is changing a bit with potential buyers liking the convenience of having one in their own backyard. I don't think it will become the norm, simply because the costs are prohibitive, but solar is changing that somewhat.

All of which leads me up to this final commentary: Large corner lots will become more attractive to younger buyers. Having ten fruit trees (or any at all for that matter) will become less desirable. The evolving demographics will clearly change how people shop for a property and what they will be looking for and what they are willing to pay for.

I know it clearly influenced us (and we're not all that young any longer).

 

I almost bought a corner lot and I understand how people like a corner lot...no neighbor house on one side of the house. But I also felt a bit exposed with a corner lot because its so easy to look into the side windows. I think I would always need a fence.

 

I had 4 orange trees and a grapefruit. I cut down 2 of the orange trees but I plan to put in a lime in the place where one orange was..already has the automatic watering system in place. Fortunately they have been kept trimmed low. I do eat a lot of fruit but doubt I can eat all the grapefruit. Its a old tree with a beautiful trunk so I don't think I would cut it. I will donate what I can't eat. I also cut down two Queen Palms and a lot of small sprouts. I still have 3 Queens remaining plus a tall Mexican Fan Palm (I think Arizona calls them Spanish) and an amazing Canary Island Date Palm, so beautiful. I'm a tree lover, especially palms, so I'm happy to have them. The palm trees give the lake a great appearance. Once a year the Dawn Lake HOA organizes a palm trimming. One company comes by and cuts them all in one day...for a reduced price.

 

If we were buying in SC in the early 60's, a corner or cul-de-sac lot would be a non-negotiable. We started our search by focusing on corner and cul-de-sac homes. Over time we realized we were missing some really nice homes because we were limiting ourselves to the type of lot. We then refocused our search to phase, and location within the phase, and found a great home. Time will tell if we made the right decision, I've heard some things about folks in our soon to be neighborhood. :glee:

I think you have hit on one more thing that makes Sun City so great Bill - different types of lots. Big lots, little lots, corner lots, cul-de-sac lots, golf course lots, lake lots, mountain view lots, and in the case of the some condos, no lots. No matter what your style or preference - you can have what you want. Fruit trees, palm trees, grass lawns, xeriscape, rocks, cactus,flowers, garden gnomes, wagon wheels, flag poles, pools, hot tubs, fence, no fence, stucco, brick, siding, flat roof, pitched roof, what can't you have?

Check that out...and I don't even live there yet.

 

Yup, with corner lots, a fence is a must have, at least for us. Of course we are dog people and block wall fences were made for dogs who love to say hello to those walking by. It is interesting to note that many age restricted communities don't even allow fencing. Go figure.

And great points V; pretty darned impressive for a neophyte. You did well with the home you bought, you just have to figure out how to get the heavy equipment in there to dig that hole. 1 shovel at a time could take a while eh?

My wife's philosophy is: "if it grows, it's goes." Just too spendy with water, trimming and picking up after them. We had the most beautiful bougainvillea on the side of the house at one time. The problem always was it was never very pretty inside the front patio (where it always ended up). I think the lake homes need have good vegetation. With the limits on fencing, having trees well placed provides privacy, shade and adds to overall ambiance of the setting.

We looked at a home a week ago that was a dump inside, but the lot was magical. Looked to be more than a half acre. By the time you got done inside and outside your next move would be the poorhouse.

 

Bougainvillea are pretty but ouch...that's a painful trim.

 

Nah...I'll leave figuring out all that stuff to the professionals. Right now, I'm just trying to figureout how much stuff to take so it doesn't feel like we are living in less than half a house.

 

I love how newbie buyers are struggling to figure this puzzle out. We've all been through it, and most of us have hauled way too much junk out here. I know, sentimental stuff we hate to part with. If I was to do it all again, I'd simply scrap all of my Minnesota junk and start anew.

Unless you are one of those with Henkel Harris, Tiffany lamps or pieces of Henredon, why not get a fresh start? It's been fascinating to watch how cheap new furniture has become. Don't get me wrong, you can still spend a fortune, but why bother when you can get pretty good stuff at reasonable prices.

But alas, you'll all pay too much to get those pieces you love shipped here and within two years you'll be shopping for stuff that fits better in your new lifestyle; just part of the joy of starting that next chapter of your lives.

 

Time will tell.

Moving in phases is what will cause us to probably bring more than we need to bring. Some stuff in the fist wave would probably not make the cut if not for the fact we want to have a place to stay when we come down before the final move.

 

I think I have mentioned before that I donated all my furniture to Habitat for Humanity. I also gave many items to 7th Day Adventist Church because they gave them away free. I brought with me linens, kitchen stuff, & pictures.

I could have gotten by pulling a trailer but I got a Penski truck that pulled my car. My son left on a Friday driving the truck. I flew down on Saturday and he was already here!

I made a deal with the seller for him to leave some furniture.
For the first few weeks I slept on the couch.
It was lots of fun buying new furniture.

 

I guess we've got it easy. Since we're not closing one household for another, we're looking at furnishing the Sun City condo from scratch. I don't mind missing out on the moving process. Of course, there is the expense of completely furnishing a new place. Should be fun though having a blank slate.

 

Lots and lots of lots

As regular readers of these pages know my wife and I are making a move to AZ in the spring or summer next year. I've spent time visiting and looking online. Earlier this year we made a decision to focus on SC Grand. However, Grand may be our focus but we're not myopic. We still have the original SC, SCWest and even Festival on our 'radar'. That brings me to the topic at hand.

As we look at the various houses I keep noticing when one steps out on a back patio of almost every house, especially at Festival, the first thing I notice is the short distance to my neighbors patio. Yet, when I would step out back in a SC house I see a wide expanse of open (or landscaped) space. I know, for those of you reading this right now you may be thinking "hello, we KNOW and that's one of the reasons we're here".

It's interesting to note that I can't even get to the point in SC where I would think to start eliminating a lot because it is or is not on a corner. There are SO MANY great lots everywhere. I will say the discussion of fruit, palm and other trees is of valuable consideration. I once had a couple fruit trees in my California lot and oh my, they are prolific and do take some cleaning up! I love trees but I'm not looking for any work.

From time to time I drop back to these pages because there's always something more to consider, something I've not thought of, something that deserves attention. Sun City is becoming like that familiar old coat or pair of jeans, every time you slip it on it just seems to fit perfectly.

 

It's odd, because I've written this before Rusco; putting pen to paper (in this case keyboard to forum) always helps me internalize. The more I have to think about something, usually the better off decisions I/we make. I know for certain, the more impulsive I am, the more repulsive the purchase turns out to be.

It's why this forum works well for me; it forces me to think, to look back when Sun City was first built and try and grasp what worked and what didn't. The classic example is the whole corner lot premium issue. I never gave it a thought until the last couple of years. The reality is, there are any number of large back yards in Sun City, and not always on corners. Sun City is filled with cul-de-sacs, and the size of some of those lots is spectacular.

Even the "normal" Sun City lot is bigger than most of what you'll find in newer communities. They're maximizing profit, but at whose expense? The interesting thing for me was to see DEVCO did the same thing, but in a different way. They put higher prices on larger lots; from lakes, golf courses, corner lots and those with 85 feet of frontage all brought more money.

Over the years, we've seen golf course properties command about a $25,000 premium. The lake homes were drawing as much as $50,000 more than a similar home on the other side of the street (sometimes more). The one area that has been ignored has been oversized and corner lots. The focus has always been on the home, and not the lot size. Like I said before, for some, larger lots usually just meant more maintenance.

Once I started taking pictures of boomers and their efforts to enhance garage space for their toys, it became obvious corner lots were the perfect solution. Then as we talked about some day downsizing, we looked for lots in the 10,000 square foot range (that would easily accommodate a pool), and they didn't necessarily draw higher prices than the average sized ones in the 8500 to 9,000 square.

It's curious, because in real estate, square footage matters. For whatever reason, it's all on the house size, not the lot size. I suspect, that will become more a factor as boomers continue to look for alternatives to the newer developments. Sun City offers options, other communities will never be able to compete with. And as this evolves, watch how lot size and corner lots will once again become "premium lots."

Great to see you stop back and visit TOSC R. We are that old comfortable pair of jeans. We feel good, we look good and we are more functional than any other out there. I liken it to buying a new car, damn, they smell good. The thing is, you pay for that smell and in the end, it's gets you the same place that older car does. Nothing wrong with shiny, new and glitzy, just recognize it all comes at a cost.

As we shopped around years back for the right retirement community, we came to understand it wasn't something brand new that would bring us happiness...but where we fit in and were comfortable was what really mattered,

 

Sun City (original) has sooooo much going for it.
Most Rec Centers and golf courses, lowest annual fee, green grass (if you want it) or gravel if that is your choice.

And, location, location, location.
Easy access to freeways, airport, 3 Walmarts, 2 large shopping centers,
Several grocery stores and drug stores. Churches of all denominations.

Many medical places and a hospital with state of the art facilities.

If that doesn't pique your interest, welllllll!

Did I leave anything out?

 

Yep. Forgot something that might be important.
There are opportunities for employment.
The Rec Centers hire seniors and I have noticed that many of the people working in stores, etc. are also seniors. Seniors have experience on their side.

As for me I put in my time and am happily retired after many years in the field of education.

 

It's a good thing some of us are willing to take on the trees. Otherwise the rest of you would have less oxygen, birds & butterflies. Anyway it doesn't cost too much to pay someone to do the clean up and trimming. We need trees. Go trees.

 

There are lots of interesting points in this post, but I've been wondering about one concept in particular should things work out for us to get serious about home shopping there...and that's just how much landscaping to have. Being desert I'm guessing trees might be a hassle to keep going, especially for part-time residents. It sounds like less would be better, but I sure like the idea of some shade/fruit trees. Does it get to be expensive to water them? And what do home owners do if they leave for the summer so things don't perish in their absence?

 

I just bought my house but all my trees are on an automatic water timer system. I do pay a gardener to go one a month to clean up and make sure water is still functioning. One thing good about not living there yet is I get to see the cost of water for just the trees. I paid 11 dollars for the month of July for 10 trees, but they had been kept a bit dry by the seller and I needed to increase the water. I should be getting that bill soon and when I do I'll let you know the cost.

 

Interesting, Cynthia...our minimum charge is $20.00. As a point of reference, I just paid $31.00 for usage of 2390 gallons. It's beginning to sound like maybe water rates are cheaper out there and wouldn't that be ironic! Glad to know automatic watering works well because having fruit trees sounds wonderful and I don't think I'd ever get tired of having them.

 

Henry: That's just another one of those things that makes Sun City special. The options and choices we have here for everything from yard art to greenery is wholly different from many other age restricted communities. While I find Sun City Grand to be very pretty, it's too sterile for my liking. The CC&R's include everything from paint color choices to types and numbers of trees and bushes.

For some/many, that kind of rigidity is a good thing. They like order in their lives and limits on what they or their neighbors can do. I find it refreshing to drive through Sun City and see varying home styles, yards with too much green stuff and others with too little. I like seeing people creative enough to adorn their front yard with the old push lawn mower and a tag on it claiming to be retired. I don't mind the giant pig or metal ornamental band members gracing someone's front patio. I like to see a rainbow of colors and home owners personalities coming in so many unique and varied ways.

Sun City has character and without it, we become just another community with people over 55. Again, it's not in everyone's wheelhouse, but we have welcomed those who like choices (within limits) and I don't see that ever changing. We often talk about having a "sense of community" and this is just another one of the things that help enhance that way of life.