5 to 4 vote...

In this thread I posted a sound bite that to me explained the beauty of Sun City. We are unique and have been for the past 55 years. We have been a community where people mattered.

At todays board meeting we saw 5 board members who put the corporation ahead of the community and put politics ahead of people. 4 board members voted no and the deciding vote was cast by president Dan Schroeder. He claims he was the one who made the motion so there was no intrigue at that point; his yes was a given.

There was a good crowd and the overwhelming majority asked the board to table the vote either until more people were back from the summer break or until they could explain the need for a raise. Silly me to expect them to listen to what members thought.

Those who told people to pound salt were:
President Schroeder.
Director Hoffer.
Director Brasher.
Vice President Jesse.
Secretary Lawry.

Those who voted no and put people before politics and community before corporation were:
Director Wieland.
Treasurer Kennedy.
Director Lee.
Director Eisert.

It should be of interest the 4 who voted no all explained their vote was because there was no need or justification to take an increase at this time. Of the 5 voting for it, only Brasher spoke to the merits by reading the corporate documents; in essence claiming it was their god-given right to do what they pleased. My question is: based on what he read, if there was no need, are they in breach of their fiduciary responsibilities?

Congratulations to the 4 of you who stood up for the community.

 

I was hoping this thread would get at least 1 of the 5 to step up and explain why they voted for it. But then when you consider no one has issued even a single comment on what they would use the increase for, I guess nothing is surprising.

Here's a clue boys and girls, in this case silence isn't golden.

If you can't work out some kind of logical explanation perhaps one of the management team can write it for you, wouldn't be the first time eh?

 

Emily, good post. I agree we all need to be civil. I give the 5 the benefit of the doubt and concede that they truly believe they have the best interest of the community at heart.

Here is viewpoint from a future resident and I really hope that at least one of the 5 board members reads these posts.

My wife who we all know from my posts has not been the biggest fan for moving into the furnace of the US, but I finally mostly won her over this spring when we rented a place in SC.

Now she is asking why the increase and asking the all important question;
"why don't we look at Sun City West where homes are newer and the PIF is only $3100 instead of $3500, besides that I don't like the fact that board members rudely ignored the voice of the community."

So there you go good folks of the board, this is the result of your refusal to answer a simple question, why do we need the increase? I know that you don't have to give answers, but the community is a team. Self governed means the collective... the community.

This hopeful future resident is now looking at the possibility of Sun City West simply because the board ignored the community that was asking a simple question.

So if any on the board read these posts would please answer the why question? At least with an answer and not a ignore I may be able to convince my wife that Sun City really is the better place to live.

 

Good points both to B and E; board members volunteer their services and are due respect for that. Unfortunately for them, respect often has to be earned. When they couldn't articulate the need, other than to blather on from corporate documents, all they did was insult everyone of us in attendance who spoke to the question.

The mantra from the board for the past ten years has been: "we have information you don't have." They get spoon fed what management wants them to have and then they horde it. Yup, I was guilty of buying into it for three years so shame on me. I saw it before I was on the board, I saw it up close and personal while on the board and now i'm seeing it all be repeated. At least the plan is consistent.

I would only point out to 4 of the 5 members who voted for it (the 5th wouldn't pay attention anyway). You all ran on a the premise of "better communication with the members." No disrespect, because almost every candidate says that, so here's the rub: 85% of all good communication begins with listening.

Yesterday, you saw resident after resident step to the microphone and ask you to table the vote until more people were back and you could better explain why you needed the increase. So the question simply becomes gang...how do you rate your better communication commitment to the community now?

This community is all of ours; it's the beauty of a collective. It was built by people taking an active role in it's governance and that role was never limited to a board of 9 and the management team. I've watched committee's dismantled because there weren't the right people on them. I've seen suggestions by the board shuffled off to the side simply to be ignored. I've watched people being played like a fiddle and when it's all said and done they wonder what the hell just happened?

If you want to ignore it, that's your right as a board. As we all heard yesterday, the corporate documents are far more important than the people and the community that elected you. Unfortunately that's not how Sun City was built and survived all these years.

 

Is there anything that can be done so this type of thing doesn't happen again?

What would have happened had there been a petition, with a specified number of names, presented to the board as kind of a "We, as a collective community, do not believe sufficient explanation for this action has been delivered and, respectfully, direct this board to table the vote until such explanation is received"?

Dumb, I know, and obviously the corporate documents would have been pulled out and the entire thing would have been quashed. So, how about changing the corporate documents?

I'm not a resident - yet, so this is none of my biz. But I'm sitting in Seattle on May Day just waiting for the Anarchists to show up and turn things upside down, so I thought I would throw some thoughts in where I don't belong.

Seriously, a self governed community needs to be governed by the community. There should be some way for the community (the many) to slow down, or stop the actions of the few (the board).

 

Good question J, I am in the same position as you are (future owner) and as potential future community member I think this is definitely our business. It is things like this that helps folks like us determine if we really want to live in Sun City. I still do, but my wife is less excited now.

From my limited reading of the corporate documents this is one area the writers fell down on. They probably did not anticipate the board forcing things on the community they didn't want. As far as I can tell the corporate documents didn't give the community any teeth at all. I appears to me that the only way to slow down or stop this kind of "leadership" is for one to run for a director position and attempt to make change as a director. As a community member I believe one can also start a recall campaign, given enough community signatures a director can be recalled. I imagine probably a very painful process though. My guess is that like any community a very small percentage really pay attention to what is actually going on behind the scenes. That is how bullies and get into positions of "power" and it goes to their heads.

Other than that the community has to rely on the elected directors to decide their fate if that is what the standing boards wants to do. To make change the community has to come together in mass and demand real change and be willing to back up their demands with recalls.

Personally I think the corporate documents need to be rewritten to give more power to the people. The directors just like our government are supposed to be servants, not dictators.

 

You are right Bruce, there are provisions for a recall but it's a pain in the butt and years back they ruled you couldn't get petitions signed on community property. Frankly it wouldn't be worth the effort.

None of the board acted out of ill will and any money raised will be used to make the community an even better place than it already is. The bigger concern for me is the lack of interest in what people think and how they feel about what the board is doing .

It's why I said this vote will make Sun City a better place to live. I've written things in the last two weeks on this site that have been said in private and never shared openly. While some think both Carole and I are just disgruntled board members, nothing could be further from the truth. It's no secret there's a number of former board members who would echo our sentiments.

It's time for this community to understand it is theirs. What is disturbing is the direction they are being taken in and balking when members speak out. I watched 6 times over the last 12 years when members turned out and objected to something the board was doing and either tabled their action or changed direction.

Yesterday was the culmination of telling people it's all about community and then acting in the interest of the corporation. My comments in the thread "Which came first..." were very pointed and I will not be shy about telling those I know in this community exactly how I feel.

Disgruntled...hardly. Disappointed...yup, and by those I put way too much faith in to do the right things.

 

Spot on Bill, simply disappointed. Not about the $500 raise, the $$ really isn't the issue for me.
Just disappointed that the majority of the board made it clear they didn't care what the community had to say. Their mind was made up well before the meeting and there was no changing it.

Was there ill will, I don't think so. Were they thinking solely of the good of the community. Maybe in their own mind, but they totally missed the point that the community wanted to be heard and the 5 made it clear they didn't care.

It would have been much better accepted if they simply said, "We have heard your concerns, but as the board we felt that for XX reasons we need to raise the PIF."

As a member of the community that would have been acceptable. You may not agree, but at least you said your piece, knew you were heard, and got to hear why the board felt it was needed. Pretty simple and it would have gone a long way to build a little trust all around.

OK, I'm done, the horse is dead, time to stop beating it.

BTW - IMHO Sun City is the best game in town and the nation.

Cheers! eaceful: