The PIF...

It's been great to see we are having more readers on this site, though it would be even better if we had more posters, but that problem isn't unique to TOSC. Message boards and forums like these almost always have far more lurkers (meant as endearing term) than posters.

I learned long ago not assume those reading would always know the history of an issue being discussed, or even how something as simple as the Preservation and Improvement Fund (PIF) works. It was passed by the RCSC board in 1999 and was intended for one purpose; to improve the amenities we owned in Sun City as they were aging. I'll spare you the history of increases and just say we now get $3000 at point of sale on a property when it sells or transfers ownership. The trigger is a cost of more than $300,000 and must have a lifespan of 15 years or more.

Since its inception, there has been in existence a long range planning committee that would help the RCSC board of directors decide how that money would be spent. Ultimately the directors would decide, but their input, at least in my opinion was invaluable. Much to my dismay, two years back it was abolished as a standing committee and moved to an adhoc status (meeting when and if needed).

Suffice to say, I voted against that action, but was out voted. Sun City has a long and storied history of both committees and resident involvement. It's what self-governance is all about. While working with committees is challenging, it is the best tool for finding the correct balance through the most number of eyes.

And that is exactly why this proposed increase should be tabled until we reinstitute the LRPC and figure out where we are going and how we are going to get there. Let me be more specific: I have in my hot little hands the proposed changes to the PIF Long Range Plan and Budget (that's the exact wording from motion #2 distributed on March 26). The budget runs through 2020 and is something in the neighborhood of 25 million dollars.

Yesterday we heard the rationale for the $500 increase was because we needed to remodel/rebuild or renovate three rec centers (Mountainview , Oakmont and Lakeview). It is what sent me scurrying for the aforementioned budget. And as I poured over it, the only line item agenda even remotely attached to the rec centers was a million dollar allocation in 2019 to "expand the stage at Mountainview."

Let me be more blunt: The current board has taken it upon itself to propose this $500 increase with no involvement of the Long Range Planning Committee. They have suggested the increase was needed because of those three centers in need of repair, yet the adhoc committee sits in limbo while apparently those decision's were made.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it?

There's more, but I'll stop back later and we can continue the chat.

 

B, what did you mean by this" "The trigger is a cost of more than $300,000 and must have a lifespan of 15 years or more" What trigger?

IMHO, I think they are increasing it now because home sales are up. People are into buying now and they deduce current buyers won't care. I am into buying and I do care. But as I said before, I care more about the idea that they will increase fees without a plan or resident involvement. The document in your hand shows that.

 

Hey Cynthia: By trigger i mean it must have a cost of more than $300,000. They couldn't use it to resurface a pool deck area even though it had a 15 year gaurentee, if the cost was less than $300,000 it would have to come out of the capital budget.

 

Where does the capital budget money come from?

 

The capital expenditures come from the annual assessment payments.

 

Thanks all for helping me understand how it works.

 

Let me continue on and try explain why I am baffled by the potential increase to the PIF. For a guy who doesn't touch the checkbook, I should be the last person spewing figures but I suspect as you follow this, you'll see why I am befuddled.

We have been averaging between 6 and 7 million dollars per year. Some argue it's an anomaly, that the bank foreclosures have inflated those numbers. Rather than debate it, I'll stay with lowball data to try and minimize the debate. Lets say we will collect 6 million a year for the next 20 years; that equals 120 million dollars (if it's 7 million dollars that figure goes to 140 million, but why argue over pennies?). And let's say just to be safe we round it off to 100 million dollars assuming the worst.

We know that through 2020 we have budgeted just under 25 million dollars from the PIF. I'm backing out the 1.6 million for Mountainview that is budgeted which now drops it to approximately 23 million dollars.

We heard yesterday we need to remodel/renovate/rebuild 3 rec centers. Let me break them down one by one (BTW, we know we spent 16.2 million on the Fairway Center several years back but it gives us a benchmark, and we know we have roughly 5 million dollars in what we did at Marinette):
* First up is Mountainview. Assuming we plowed it under and put up a state of the art theater, new pool and fitness area I think 20 million dollars would be more than adequate.
* Moving down the road to Oakmont which has a tiny footprint (very small footage on which it sits) and horrendous parking issues, lets assign a very generous 5 million dollars for a face lift akin to Marinette.
* And then the grand-daddy of projects would be Lakeview, I happen to like that building, as someone said it is almost iconic. But rather than debate the merits of it, lets say we plow everything under and spend a whopping 25 million dollars to make it our flagship on the lake.

Still with me? Good.

We heard also yesterday we still have some obligations to fill on our golf courses and that's going to cost us. I'm not sure how much is left in that we did North. Riverview is in the 2015 PIf budget (with the patio about a 6 million 2) as is Willowbrook and Willowcreek (2016 at 6.8 million dollars). And both of these figures are already in the 2015 -2020 PIF budget.

We just did the irrigation at Lakes West a few years back, so I guess we can figure 2 million dollars at Lakes East (an executive course) for their irrigation. Quail Run was our last course built and is a 9 hole with two tee boxes (so conceivably you can play 18 holes using different tees). I have no clue what it needs other than a new patio/entertainment area but to be safe. lets throw 3 million dollars at it. That leaves the South course and 4 or 5 years ago we put several million into some course modifications. We know it needs a new pro shop and cart storage and just to be on the high side, lets allocate 5 million dollars.

Those are the things the board said we may need to do. And if my math is right we have:
Rec Centers: 50 million dollars.
Golf courses: 10 million dollars.
2015-2020 : 23 million dollars.

One of the board members yesterday said we should do something about the Sun Bowl and I whole heartedly agree. Lets get wild and crazy and throw 7 million dollars at it (no idea on what?).

That brings our grand total to a whopping 90 million dollars. However our uber-conservative 100 million dollars in PIF raised still leaves us 10 million dollars for other stuff like the walls surrounding Sun City and other incidentals.

I'm not trying to be picky because I know inflation will increase costs over those 20 years, but i'm not convinced we need to do everything on this extraordinary wish list.

Unfortunately for me I tend to be a student of the game called Sun City. I love what we have here, love the idea we have the money to do what we have done and firmly believe we need to keep doing it. This exercise is one I have run over and over in my head and hence why I was confused as to the increase. Perhaps someone from the board, staff or a community member can show me the error of my math and or ways; because without that adjustment in thinking I cannot imagine why we would need a raise in the PIF.

 

Interesting how varying topics almost always intertwine. In another thread we read the comments regarding boomers and volunteerism. There's volumes of data out there about boomers and their tendencies. They almost always are generalizations that simply become tools to help shape direction; not proclamations that are finite in human behavior.

Most information indicates boomers will tend to volunteer differently. More often it will be in the short term rather than the long. It's been argued we are products of our environment and the one I love is that boomers, who grew up on 30 minute and 1 hour television shows, have that ingrained in them...everything now. Hate to admit it, I can relate.

It caused me to wonder if that's part and parcel of the problem we are witnessing with the PIF? Rather than a 20 year long term plan, how can we get it done sooner without the wait. Perhaps, but seems to me even with the $500 increase the acceleration would be miniscule. A million dollars more a year doesn't get us there that much faster when you consider the costs in the post above.

Here's the bigger concern from me: All of the projections I did above are based on a simplistic approach rather than a targeted one. It doesn't take into consideration what Sun City might need most. I have argued that one thing lacking is a community center. A central location with the potential to bring people together. A building that serves in multiple capacities that meets the needs of a changing demographic of potential buyers. I'll go into more detail later, but it seems shortsighted to fail to look at the boomer trends and habits before we start some sort of massively expensive renovation project/long term plan.

The beauty of this discourse is I have no sense my thinking is right or wrong. What's most important is we are willing to open our minds and consider all alternatives.

I've written it a hundred times: Sun City is perfectly positioned to become the primary destination for hundreds of thousands of boomers over the next twenty years. The only question is are we willing and able to try and shape the community to meet their needs and expectations?

 

I agree it would be good to have a central place like a community center with a coffee shop. Boomers are a group that often met in bars in the early day to listen to music, play pool and such. At least my years did. I know many places already exist though and I wonder if people would go.

I'm not so sure that boomers won't volunteer. I will. I think it depends on how they see the need and the advertisement for it. Does anyone encourage volunteerism? Not just offer it but really make people see the need for it and say we need you. What if in the newsletter or website there is an actual list of "spaces needed" for the various volunteer activities? I've found that really helps when recruiting volunteers because people will often have the impression that everything is ok and taken care of unless you tell them.

 

Cynthia that is a great idea,when my wife and I are there in Oct we hope to do some volunteering and I think it would be easier for us if the list of what is needed came out in a news email.Others like us might just take longer to find where the help is needed as we will be new and take awhile to learn the area,and others just need a little push to get started.

 

The Visitor Center used to parcel off volunteer applications to the various organizations, but I love the idea of a web site dedicated to volunteering. Explanations of open positions, hours and what the positions did would be wonderful. Great idea C.

I also loved your comments about a coffee shop. Let's think back to the 60's; coffee houses were big for 20 some-things who are now of retirement age. Starbucks are filled with people over paying for a cup of coffee. Ice cream shops were and still are the rage. Moving the Visitor Center to the community Center would only grow the numbers of folks stopping down on a regular basis. Having all of the administrative located there just adds to the numbers that come by. And rather than the Sundial auditorium hosting our board meetings, how about a more functional, practical space?

So much more to chew on but logic just never gets much light of day eh?

 

We talked about creating our own Sun City app and this would be yet another in a long line of opportunites to promote the community and all of its unique facets. So many things to do, so little time.

Seriously, there is a world of untapped potential for us to reach for. The problem is we shove a dozen jobs at one person and expect them to get it all done. I think the board should consider a 20 to 30 hour position for just social media, related items and improvng our use of the new electronic signage.

 

Exactly B. A social media person is needed for the future. I was a Peace Corps Volunteer. Remember that commercial "The Toughest Job You'll Ever Love" That sold the Peace Corps to many of us. SC needs something like that. Short vids of people volunteering together and having fun. And saying we need you here and showing what is needed. They could even use the Facebook page to start to get out some of the videos, which frankly is underutilized communication because many people are on Facebook for family.

 

If the RCSC board truly is looking to the future, and I believe they are, then these are the kinds of things they should be looking at (see comments above). While raising the PIF is all about the money, the first consideration should be about the people. And i'm not talking about the impact of the hike and one's ability to buy or sell a home here.

What we've found out when amenities are improved is there is almost always concern over the closing of said amenity. It goes with the territory and people get over it. The real problem is more about the scope of the work. A golf course down for a year isn't arms and legs, there's 7 others to play. Especially when they know the outcome on the remodeled course will be wonderful .

If we go back to my costs projections based on the things the board said they need the money for, then we need look at each of the rec centers and ask how does that impact the community at large. In two of the cases, it's certainly manageable. Let's break it down:
* Mountainview doesn't have much in the way of clubs and while the closure would certainly inconvenience people, it's the kind of short term pain well worth the long term gain. Especially if the outcome is a sparkling new theater, pool and fitness room. The bigger issue is the impact on all the outside areas. Because with every improvement are problems that must be dealt with. Parking is beyond our control, because the size of a theater would dictate the number of parking spots the center must have. While it doesn't seem like a big deal, it is.
* Oakmont again would be pretty straight forward. The biggest question would be a face lift or plowing it under to build new. Given the footprint, logically it doesn't make sense to me for a complete gut job. There are several clubs there who love the center and accommodating them and their wishes seems to be the most important aspect of any decisions the board would make.
* Lakeview is the 5 ton elephant in the room. With dozens of clubs, administrative offices and all kinds of outdoor activities, the impact on plowing that under and starting over would be staggering. Then you come to the question do you start on the street adjacent to the Lake's club (nursing school) and demolish everything but the bowling alley running all the way to the lawn bowling greens? It's an awesome piece of property, but the scope of work there would be mind blowing. And of course the bigger issue is having the money in hand to get the job done. Accumulating 20 to 30 million dollars puts everything else in state of limbo.

Which brings this discussion back full circle: Are these kinds of decisions that should be made by the board or does it make more sense to start up the adhoc LRP committee and open up lines of communication across the community?

Easy answer for me, but what say you all?

 

Tear down Lakeview? One of the things I like about Sun City is that most of the buildings (at the externally) have not changed. Revamp the insides yes but if SC starts demolishing building it will be a shame. Architecture is history and we knock down too many building already. BTW, what is the nursing school you talked about? What's the name?

 

Carole is spot on, but there us a rest of the story here that deserves to be told. Rather than bog down this thread, i'll start a new one entitled a tale of woe. It will be one man's opinion of one of my/our biggest failures.

 

The Sun City Visitor Center (across courtyard from Bell Library) has information about places to volunteer and lots of other information. They also have a bus that tours SC (free but donations welcome). During the summer, I will be there on Wednesday afternoon. Stop by and say hello.