Mountainview Presentation - Initial observations

After going through the Triarc presentation several times, I thought it may be helpful to share some observations (not criticisms)

My first observation is we should all be thankful for the efforts that have gone into the Mountainview project and recognize there is always a high level of advocacy involved.

Second, for those data hounds like me, I found the presentation easy to understand with one exception. I found myself scratching my head with respect to why actual data was not used with respect to the performing arts groups. The number of performances and the number of attendees is easily obtained. Why was this not included?

Third, it appeared to me that the result of Triarc’s programming work is very similar to what the SAC came up with. The two major exceptions are that the theater will be a new building, and the cost has gone up substantially.

Fourth, it appears that only one group has had their wish list filled and this is where the vast majority of the money will be spent.

Finally, I am urging the board to actively solicit and publish member comments over the next few months. If the vast majority of members (by number) want to spend over $20M on a theater IMHO we should go full speed ahead and never look back. If not, the Board may want to brainstorm with Triarc how to get the biggest bang for the member’s buck.

 

I feel the decsion has been made in favor of the players clubs wants, despite the bulk of the community comments that I have read do not support such a venture. There will not be enough usage to substantiate such an expenditure, with no data to support it either. There has been one group that has had the ear of Triarc, and this is the direction this entire process has gone. I also fear there are supporters on the board that are not going to be objective, but rather vote personal preference over what is best for the community. Lastly, for the cost and location, I again have serious questions about this location over Sundial or new structure at Bell Parking lot? There is still going to be an ongoing issue with Maricopa County and parking which can't be changed due to location and footprint. Where was this addressed in the presentation?
Since putting this to a vote of the community has been overlooked, numerous times, this is the greatest boondoggle created sine the Grand Center. Overspending the PIF with the hope home sales stay on course, placing other projects at risk along the way due to lack of funding, and putting in a built in increase in yearly assessment is what lays at the feet of this action. There have got to be better solutions to this idea. A theater has proven to be a burden to other communities that have built them or purchased them. Example would be Sun City West. The cost to maintain the structure and the indoor needs was too much for the community, so the entire building was sold and it is now a Safeway store. When speaking with other communities that have constructed theaters for their members, now wish they had not, as the cost of maintenance is high. This is based upon a personal conversation with a representative of Robson Communities. They have built one theater, and won't build another.
There is evidence that this type of venue is not needed at Mountainview and is probably not needed at all for the community. TriArc does great work, and I wonder if given full information about opportunities within the community, not just one location, if other possibilities might be suggested.
A community center large enough to hold a visitors center that is open to the publice on business days and at least a Saturday. Have a small theater attached where videos of the history of the community can be viewed along with a presentation why Sun City could be a great place to live with you being here. Make it a great place that welcomes people and makes them feel valued for having spent time there. This is where there is a need, a central location within Sun City, not in the far reaches of Sun City. In my opinion.

 

And do what with Mountain View Carole? Remodel the pool and leave all the dumpy old buildings? Put lipstick on the pig and stucco them? How quickly do you think we can shift gears and create this theater/community center/visitor center at Bell? I'll be generous and say three years, in all likelihood closer to 4 years. Then there's the bigger/better questions: Is this what the members want? What will that cost be?

My understanding from those who have been proponents of a "master plan" is that they are interested in better deciding what our future needs are. We should have had one years ago, we didn't. Now telling folks at MV to wait longer is a non-starter for me. Telling the performance groups they are unwanted and not needed is also an ugly look for our community.

 

In my opinion, the thought of spending some $20 mil. for theater groups is disturbing to me. It does not address the overall physical fitness needs and attributes of the kind of community we are.
We are not living in the northern midwest were you can have 6 months of very cold weather, just the opposite. Most of us moved here so we can be active doing outdoor venues, physical fitness and outdoor recreation things. I've noticed in the past several years we have loaded up the schedule of having a lot of vintage band rock concerts and the like. That is fine for the number of folks who want to be entertained that way, but I am not for spending literally millions of dollars for another indoor theater. I am telling you, I've lived here for over 51 years and it did not work in SCW when they built that large white elephant. If you go to SCW, you will see they now have wonderful fitness centers for the majority, being RH Johnson and Palm Ridge. If Triarc is going to build something the most useful for our population here, we need to make it more like Palm Ridge, and have a theater venue but in a much smaller scale. I think for overall health and enjoyment, the Mountain View should reflect more gym style fitness instead of building a $20 million dollar theater. I think we are making a big mistake here. Triarc needs to look at Palm Ridge in West.

 

Okay Bill,

What’s really going on? I only stated not to put a venue such as a theater at Mountainview snd now am accused of derailing the entire remodel? No skin in the game? Just what is it that looking at a remodel prudent for the usage of the community such as pool, gym, expanded locker area, pickle ball. Lawn bowl and nice entrance not satisfactory? Or is it because I suggested it. Doing a remodel without putting in a theater is not lipstick on a pig. This is the second time that statement has been leveraged my way, and I am angry that anyone feels this is an acceptable response.
Why the singling out of my comments? It’s feeling a little personal and I don’t know what I have done to deserve this treatment.
I stayed away from posting anything for a day, did it make the site better? I made a mistake when I became overly engaged in the print media thread, but I apologized. Pariah forever now?
You are most prolific writer and your opinions are valued, but to tear down another person because of their opinion is not appropriate. Why are others allowed to state their dislike of a theater at that rec center and not get shredded? Of course my observations and opinions.
And because I don’t support a $20m theater is my way of throwing out the performance group is a pretty strong accusation. I never stated they are not wanted or needed. Yet there lays the label assigned to me. When I say things that are wrong or hurtful, I apologize. I have done so in the past. This is one time I don’t feel I owe any apology to anyone.

 

Another observation is the theater seems to be a very divisive project.

 

Nothing is going on Carole. I don't get tangled up in every post but i have read the calls to waylay the MV project from a couple of you. Simply my opinion, we can no longer keep doing that with more surveys, questionnaires and studies. We've been down those roads far too many times.

For those of you who don't want a theater, i'm all ears on solutions. Which, if you read my response to you, was directly related to your post about building at theater/community center/visitor center at Bell? How long will that take? How many millions of dollars will we need and what do we do in the interim? It's not personal, i'm looking for answers that those living around the Mountain View Center would expect.

I am getting tired of hearing about the failed Sun City West Theater. It's disingenuous to compare that to whatever we may build, or not build. The Sun Dome was their version of our Sun Bowl. It was too big and it was closed because it was too big. One could argue, our Sun Bowl theater/venue is tragically under used. On the other hand, SCW has a 300 seat sloped floor theater that gets a lot of use. No one is suggesting it closes.

The controversy over Mountain View has dragged on and we are on the cusp of resolving it. The single most important aspect (in my opinion) is at what cost? We don't have an unlimited budget for a small site where only so much can be done. I hardly a guy who anyone would consider a proponent for the Players/Performance groups, but they are entitled to a venue.

If not at Mountain View, where should they go?

 

Now those of Mountainview should "expect" a theater? They are "entitled" to what size or cost of a venue?
Building a centrally located venue for a visitors center, or at least one that is open and affords visitors an opportunity to drop by at will would be a great thing in the community, located somewhere people can easily find it. The continuing talk of wanting to attract more folks to the area requires a starting point, and perhaps a working visitors center could be that.
I am not in favor of Mountainview and stated as such previously. I feel there could be a great renovation to that center that does not include a theater. I also believe another poster offered ideas about seating and other items, at another center, but alas, they didn't get reamed for their suggestion. My suggestion was not solely for it to be located at Bell. Guess that wasnt the point.

I will continue to voice my opposition to a theater being built at Mountainview as not being the most prudent decision for the spending of funds or for location. Guess you are just going to have to keep on chewing me out Bill.

 

I am fully on board with improving the Player's Club space wherever that may be. The question is at what cost. I believe the entire Grand Center cost about $8M and all of building Fairway cost $17M. I just think it is too big of an ask for one club to want a $20M + facility and I see the cost benefit as way out of whack. That is just one man's opinion. But what if that is the opinion of majority of members? Shouldn't we find out?

 

Five votes is all that’s needed for a $20 million theater. That makes no sense. We’re right back where we were when the previous board wanted to spend $40 million. Wrap in the cost of MV and there you are. How many members are there in the theatre group? And how many new ones are coming on board? Ridiculous waste of money.

 

Nothing is personal here, at least from me. We disagree, so be it. For those of you who don't want a theater, step up to the mic and say so tomorrow night. Those that do think, after 20 years of promises, something needs to be done most likely will say so as well.

I know some who would say that 6 million dollars for Quail Run was absolute nonsense Larry. In fact, i know some who think the 100 million dollars we are plowing into golf from the PIF (2000-2032) is exactly what the board feared in 1978; it becomes a money pit. Good thing we aren't letting the membership vote on whether to keep pouring money down the golf rat hole.

Kind of the point though isn't it; trusting the board to make those tough decisions. We own the amenities, they need to be taken care of, from those who golf to those belonging to performing groups.

If you feel strongly about anything that happens in this community, show up, speak up and take ownership.