4/24/2025 Board Meeting No New Business

I feel strongly that verifiable information, not here say and speculation, be used to make informed capital decisions by RCSC. Sorry but I am the strong analytic type and need to consider all relevant data in order to make a decision. So far this is what I have come to conclude based on the data:

1. Entertainment options for today's 55+ crowd have grown exponentially over the last 30 years
2. Live theater productions have been hurt by the spread of diseases like COVID
3. Very few Arizona 55+ recreationally based communities have special purpose theaters
4. Special purpose theaters are very expensive to build and maintain
5. Attendance at the plays our Players Club have worked hard to put on has dwindled
6. With very limited exceptions, our indoor facilities are overbuilt and underutilized
7. With limited exceptions, our participation rate (Residents participating in recreational and governance activities) is relatively low.
8. The fees charged by RCSC are very low in comparison to other 55+ recreational communities in Arizona/
9. The maintenance of many of our facilities has been deferred for a long time.

This leads me to conclude that our leaders need to take into account all these factors and more on each major capital project.

 

I think one of the goals for the LRP Committee should be to increase participation in RCSC activities and facilities.

 

In response to the statement about participation rate within the community, I believe there are numerous studies that indicate what is being sought by today’s 55+ buyers. Rather than cut and paste the information, the general summary is that small group activities with spaces available for gatherings is a preferred method for socializing. Lectures, presentations that educate and entertain are preferred. Interactive sessions such as cooking classes and wine tasting are popular. The desired time to spend with these activities is the evening and weekend hours. The current group of 55+ still work, and plan on continuing to work so meeting their desired activities are outside the scope that we offer.
Don’t want to be chided again about what others offer, rather what can we do differently to be competitive in the very market Sun City created. The demographics have changed and with that, the needs and desires have changed. Can we, or will we, be willing to change as well to offer what the market calls for in 55+ communities? Do we try to compete or rely on the current offerings? It’s a question of choice for the immediate and long term success of Sun City to be a destination of choice versus a cheap place to live.

 

There are volumes written about the next generation of home buyers (Generation X), and i would only caution we not try and place everyone in a small box solution. With that caveat out of the way, the opportunities to evolve are really incumbent on the RCSC boosting its technology ten-fold from where we are currently. We know that, they know that and apparently they are trying.

We've been preaching/screeching this for years now, but we've been trapped with general managers who saw technology as the enemy, not the solution. Hell, we now have a bylaws committee and at least one member of it still sees remote access as a bad thing. Age restricted communities across the country are streaming their meetings live for those not wanting to attend in person. This isn't that hard.

Unless of course we don't have the capacity, bandwidth or interest/will to stay current. We've lost sight of innovation and become trapped in just doing what has been done before by those who loved the status quo. Evolution/change is inevitable, or it's not and we slip from relevance.

On a final note, i think there are other committees, beyond the LRPC, that have the opportunity to shape an energized effort to recruit new buyers into the fold. The program the other day with the Orientation was good, i would argue a more intimate and interactive setting would grow the circle quicker. Hopefully the planners will review their efforts and enhance the structure and presentation.

We'll see eh?

 

Not meant to be confrontational, just sharing something I found while searching pros and cons of age restricted communities, however it is how I feel. When we were young going downtown Chicago to see Le Mis or Cats was so much fun. As we aged, we moved to the west suburbs and sought out small ad hoc theater venues and chose to spend time with family and friends.

Sun City is a place where seniors choose to live out their final years. They don’t want to plan for ten or twenty years down the road. They might not be around then, and whose future would they be investing in, anyway—the next round of retirees?

For the most part, people who retire to age-segregated communities have already jettisoned their obligations to the community they left behind—the one that invested in their future many years earlier.

EDIT: The other issue for me is why invest further in a community where the people we elected to keep the community neat and clean do things behind our backs and don't allow us to vote?

 

Hi Carole,
I agree with what you've said here. I have lived out here for over 50 years now. I remember when they built that white elephant performing arts in SCW. It did alright for about 10 years, and then the building became unusable. We keep forgetting we have Sundial. I also think if they build another theater, we would be very foolish not to look into having it a multipurpose building. We have too.
I am not too hot on building the PAC to be honest. A member said at one of the meetings that we don't want a PAC, because we don't want to make SC a large theater venue for non residents to be using our community for an event district. That will really bring the place down I think. Just my opinion though. I would like to see 2 outstanding modern Rec centers being MV and Lakeview one day. That will be the best selling feature we will have to attract new home buyers. Let's keep the community a resort styled, serene place of maintaining good health, beauty and with some modern amenities.

 

Please see copy of letter sent to Director Nettesheim for her consideration.

My name is Carole Martinez, and I am a member who has read the comments from the committees reports. I have got to implore you to take some time to please listen and read what I have to offer.
You did not ask for my input but I feel it’s imperative that you have some additional information to share with your colleagues and committee members that can provide some most valuable information.
You and the committee’s have worked tirelessly to provide a comprehensive new website that allows for user visibility and information. What I have not seen is real time information sharing or an integrated system for sharing information or data that could be accessed through the site. As long as Wordpress is used as the primary platform, the content and usability is always going to be woefully inadequate.
Wordpress is antiquated and not scalable to meet today’s needs or going forward. It’s time for the RCSC to take action and implement new strategies for addressing the digital needs of this community.
This starts with a new approach and platform for the software development and implementation. There are several “off the shelf” options, all needing some amount of work to import some of the older information. To be frank, this continued activity to make the current version usable and scalable for the use of all is going to be tedious at best.
I have done some research into a scalable, community development platform, that could also support revenue streams such as golf and membership payments into one application. It also provides software for developers to create training and development tools that allow for tracking of such activities. It means abandoning the current process being developed, and embracing a new approach to development of electronic media for the RCSC.
So, after some research, I think Hivebrite is a much better option for the corporate media network, now and the future.

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I know you didn’t ask for my opinion, but I have watched the hours and time put into this issue, going back to when I was on the board. It’s time to turn the page and start thinking about building a better product for today and the future.
Sincerely,
Carole Martinez
RCSC member

It was an unsolicited offer to this director to seek alternatives to continuing to try to rework the current system. In doing so, the RCSC is encountering additional delays and other challenges that are going to complicate the process even further. The digital needs of the RCSC are immense due to lack of attention and upkeep. In other words, trying to put lipstick on a pig is just not the appropriate way to advance the digital vision for the future of the RCSC.

 

Bill, it seems you have misunderstood my position regarding remote access.
I was opposed to Board directors phoning in to be counted as attendance because our technology was not far from two tin cans, two nuts and some string. That was two years ago and two recent committee meetings I attended, things had not changed that much. I thought the big screen TVs were cool and a decent sound system, but did not make up for the short comings. Even trying to make it work in the Board room required some sort of certification to operate.

Before we start doing laps for our technology we should make sure anyone, even me, could have no problem operating it.

My last point on this referred to earlier was Directors calling in for Board meetings, possibly work sessions and other situations. To run for the Board you must be available 10 months of the year. Fine, but what prevents the system being abused by a Director, once elected, leaves to live elsewhere while maintaining a primary residence here. This is obviously an abuse of the system but legal because the Director is “available” via the latest remote app. It’s like the politician that comes only during election time and you never see afterward.

You might find my example a bit out in left field but 50+ years I have seen people try to find cracks in the system to exploit.

The above is a far cry from the image you are trying to project of my views on this subject. Even you say our technology is not up to snuff, so what is wrong with me saying the same thing but applying it to real life examples?

Proxies to be discussed in the future.

 

As a "historian" David, you of all people should know better than trying to rewrite history. You have long been an outspoken critic of the RCSC using technology to enhance those who want to participate. It's one thing to argue our technology sucks (it does and you were on the board as the GM treated it as a throwaway) and wholly another to shout from the mountain tops (or in your case from the mic) you oppose it; unless you "know how to operate it." Do you know how foolish that sounds? Seems to me it wasn't that long ago you were complaining about a mouse not working on your ipad?

So, every time you stepped to the mic and argued against remote access my sphincter muscles tightened (you've been doing it for years). You are never shy about your positions which is why i did a full cringe when i heard you were back on the bylaws committee. Sorry, nothing personal, some of your views are counter-productive to restoring the safeguards our community was built around.

Technology is our future Dave, whether you like it or not. Troglodytes like us are a relic from days gone by. Retreads should be a thing of the past as well.

Just one guy's opinion.

 

Hivebrite system designed for non-profits may be the an option to explore.

From Hivebrite site:


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This company seems to have a handle on what to design for and seek to meet and exceed community needs and engagement. I have not included the entire package of offerings, but it is comprehensive, scalable, and available to meet all of the RCSC needs.


Drive mission success
Foster innovation and enable your team to adopt best practices through efficient knowledge sharing, empowering your practitioners and changemakers to achieve exceptional results.


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Cultivate a deep sense of belonging by tailoring guidance and support to meet the unique needs of your members, strengthening their commitment and engagement with your mission.

Sorry, I keep dropping information about digital platforms in the middle of other discussions. Not trying to change the topic, just misguided today.

 

This is a snippet from a message sent to a friend, mostly as a humorous retort to the subject we were discussing. As I look at it again, it might not be a joke after all.

Community Outreach Committee needs to be formed with the intent of creating and promoting Sun City to the members. Seek and engage various venues and formats for communicating with the members in ways to enhance and enlighten them about the community we all live in. Ta-da a new committee with a mission statement.

last humorous line removed for sanity sake.

 

First, the iPad has no mouse which I pointed out to Josie. Hard to work something that doesn’t exist.
Your tone makes people think I am anti-technology and I am not responsible for the current situation anymore you as a “Union leader” are responsible, I’m not. Director Chis, the Board tech expert has said that the current state of the art platforms are dinosaurs within 2.5 years. How does the RCSC deal with this fact when upgrading? Do we work with the current system for a few years then upgrade to the newest, bestest thing or go with the herd and buy new every 2.5 years at no small cost? That’s for the techies to answer and BF&A to plan for in the budget and it will affect assessments.

OK what safeguards am I missing or are you just pining for the good old days? Sometimes when I read your posts or hear you testify at exchanges, you seem to want the members to have the ability to run buck wild with no safeguards. Sometimes I have no idea what you are talking about and I have the same problem also with other people.

I know tech is the future and I am the dinosaur heading off to the dinosaur graveyard in Utah. I don’t need the latest shiny tech toy or telephone. I just want to make and receive phone calls as easily as possible. I don’t want to make a feature length movie on my phone but I do want to take an occasional photo for some reason. Doubt I will make it back to Europe to revisit a few cathedrals, Norte Dame and St. Chapelle in Paris, Albi and Carcassonne in France, Bergamo, Ravenna and Pompeii in Italy, Aachen in Germany (Charlemagne’s cathedral and make sure you eat at Hans House of Wurst across from the cathedral, it’s the McDonalds of Germany) and a few in The Netherlands and England, but hope springs eternal.

Thank Tom for outing me. I have no problem with his motion and the attorney will change one word. Chill out, it’s not that bad. Force Majeure. Just predicting the future.

The future ain’t what it use to be. Yogi Berra

 

Sometimes I read the last post and wonder what the thread is about. It reminds me of when we would take long road trips and it would start: He is on my side of the seat, she touched me, he made a face at me, ... It is maddening but very real for those who are emotionally engaged in a battle of wills.

My sense is the governance submarine has submerged and will not reappear until August/September when the decisions will be announced as final. Look I spent a summer in Sun City, and it was not pretty. I appreciate people being willing to sacrifice their summer to engage in what are in MHO guided discussions. Look there are four board members on this working group so only one more vote is needed to pass whatever is produced. I wish them the best of luck.

 

I've used your quote Dave, but it is in conjunction with John's remarks and inclusive of the discussion in this thread. Let's start with the most basic of answers: Those safeguards i am pining for were built into our documents to protect the community/membership from the stupid stuff the board or general manager was doing...not visa versa.

What happened in 2006 when we hired the new GM, a course was set for this community that by 2009 she had convinced the board members the membership was out to get them. Initially passing bylaws with a quorum set at 3500 and several months later reduced to 1250. That action created a community where we went 12 years without an annual membership meeting. That created an environment where the members took a back seat and the board and more so the GM made every decision.

I was on the board for the ride, and it was one of the most frustrating periods of my life. I watched in real time as one bad decision after another was made and the members sat lifeless and listless. Image a freaking board shutting down the long range planning committee because their work was done? One board after the next just gave her free reign to do whatever she thought was best.

You were on the board after me and saw, watched poor decisions made with no push back, no accountability. Hell, you resigned in anger. Now you freely admit your suggestions on budget and finance have just been shit-canned with nary a glance. The list of abuses and poorly thought out choices is nearly endless, and here we sit now arguing whether a "small band of members" will be screwing the community over.

Sorry, Dave, that's never been the problem. It's never been the membership we needed to worry about. The shit-show and the results we are trying to dig ourselves out of haven't come by way of the membership. You know that, or at least you should.

All of which brings us full circle to John's point and many of the remarks made in this thread. My mantra has never changed, in all of my written words and all of those times i have "testified at the mic," the message has never varied: "Trust the freaking membership. Involve the membership. Build an internal infrastructure to grow the participation and make them owners of the process and accountable for our success."

Rather than doing that, we are headed in the wrong direction. The board has the right, the ability to put whomever they want on the bylaws committee. Fine, but by doing so it raises questions and concerns; as it should. Here's just a few of them:
*What was the message to out of hand tell those who submitted motions they were disqualified?
*What was the message to create a committee and then mysteriously call it a working group?
*What was the message to hide/shield those on this new group as if it was "top secret?.
*What's the message when you claim to have been outed?

With every step they take/make it reads like a Jason Bourne novel. It's why several of us have said: One step forward, two steps back. Either you trust and believe in the membership, or you don't. Either you include them in the process, or you don't. The simply reality for me is this; if the message is we don't trust those living here to be involved, then nothing has changed since 2006.

So you understand my reticence in you being on the bylaws committee is based solely on your way too often stated remarks about how little the members know or worse yet, how dumb they are.

 

I did not out you. You outted yourself when you told us what the committee decided. Something only a committee member would know.

Stop spreading lies.

 

The Board is not in an enviable position. Open positions on the board and management combined with a lack of trust of the membership makes for a ton of work that the Board is handling on its own. In addition, it is highly likely at least four board seats will change hands next year. I sense there is a possibility of rational thought guiding the decisions of this Board. I, for one, will really kick the tires of what this Board's proposals are for:

1. Bylaw changes
2. Building a special purpose theater
3. The Mountainview renovation
4. The dog facility

I had a boss once who said integrity is what you do when no one is looking. I hope this Board shows us this fall what integrity looks like.

 

As soon as you do.

 

I'm not the liar.

I showed you your own text where you gave yourself away.

Show me mine.

If you can't, then who's the liar?

 

If the board would consider a retread, I think I might like to apply for the open position. The bylaws state a total of two terms/ 6 years. When I was elected the first time, it was to finish the term of an exiting board member who needed to deal with medical issues. My term was set at 2 years because I was filling a position that was vacated. My second term was the full three years. Total time spent on the board, 5 years, allowing me to spend some more quality time being a member of the board.
I would also need to be appointed chair of a newly created committee called Member Outreach Committee. Its focus will be communication and engagement of the members, utilizing whatever resources or means necessary to promote and maintain open and transparent dialogue between the RCSC and the members. The first order of business will be to help the communications committee find a new digital software platform to be developed and implemented just as soon as possible for the benefit of the RCSC, the members, the golfers and the payments of assessments. Once this new technology has been discovered and sought to implemented, the reintroduction of a print media service of which will be delivered to every home in Sun City. This newsletter will cover RCSC news, but will also highlight clubs, events and outstanding members of the community. The structure of this committee will be for myself, the director in charge, to gather committee members, who will then elect a chair and co-chair to be the voice and direction for the committee as they represent the members. Being the director of the committee for members means members will be the voice and leadership for the committee.
That is my retread platform for consideration to fill the current vacancy. This should make several people cringe, but is my offer to help. Time for everyone to laugh out loud, we could all use a smile about now.

 

If you simply fill the vacant position it doesn't count towards your 6 year limit, meaning you could still run to serve another full year!

I cringe only because I understand what you and Bill tried to do the last time you were on the board! How'd that work out for you? It didn't.

You're speaking and the board is hearing, but they are not listening!

Good Luck storming the castle!