50 Shades of Gray

Serious question. How are you going to get this board, who took away our voice at the annual meeting, to agree to your ideas?

 

It’s not my place to tell anyone how to proceed. I make suggestions for the betterment of the community. If the board chooses to enlist any idea submitted, it will be of benefit for all. The ideas suggested are given freely with no restrictions attached.
Most ideas presented on TOSC are based upon acumen and experience from having been involved in the community and having a desire for the community to seek answers to for its future. There is no strings attached to anything offered for having the community seek a different direction and move forward for the purpose of making Sun City the neighborhood it can be. Most importantly, these are suggestions, not mandates. I have no way of influencing the board in any particular direction, I can only make suggestions.

 

Maybe we need an outside professional firm to run the entire RCSC if we can no longer plan, develop and make decisions.
The question may surely be at present, how many other senior communities are having the same problem?
More difficult sign of the times as it seems.

 

thank you for your kind and truthful answer. I guess my question is what good does posting on this site do if concerns, questions, suggestions (all of which are excellent IMO) and not taken to the members. I doubt the board will accept input from residents.

I have looked at past comments on this site which goes back to 2013, and the same issues are brought up over and over throughout this site's 12 year existence. I saved the posts I felt are important. Bill has said many times that since 2006 SC RCSC has changed and not for the better. So for 19 years everyone who has been a past board/committee member gets together on a social media site and says what they believe will fix what's wrong.

The only person in the 20 years I have lived here that tried to fix anything was Anne Randall. She lost, and interestingly enough she was fighting to be a Title 33 corp. She took a lot of crap for that, yet Bill posted this recently:

Agreed John and it is interesting to note Sun City West elected to operate under Title 33 rather than Title 10. There was a fascinating struggle circa 1998-2000 where a community action group, SWOOG, formed and rather than getting into a lengthy and expensive court battle, they just agreed to follow Title 33 which features a much more transparent and open style of governance.

We decided to fight it, and hence, we are where we are and they are where they are.

BPearson, Apr 5, 2025

So I guess we just keep letting the current board dictate to us what will and will not happen. Typing will not change a thing.

 

Posting on this site is strictly for the interest of providing information others may find interesting and useful. No one who posts on this website can be held accountable to perform duties they are not authorized to do. When posting about the board, the content is that of a suggestive nature, with the intent of providing answers and information to those who read these posts. Those who offer information, ideas, suggestions and advice are doing so as a courtesy to the board.
The caveat is that I feel confident that members of the board do read this site, so they are informed as to what some of the community members have to say. The amount of former board members on TOSC is enlightening to see as it’s an indication of the commitment made to this community and its members. The former board members are also trying to make the board aware of the changes needing to be made. So, if the comments are being read, and creating cognitive thought processes than posting on here proves what an invaluable resource this site is.

 

Thank you, BP. In theory, yes, what you suggest seems prudent vs. retread ….. however, the desire may be a “yes” person.
Nonetheless, don’t underestimate one who has been rudely shut up bringing factual/concerning issues to the table and who is challenged to contribute by serving - particularly someone that has provided much effort and hours towards the betterment of Sun City. Don’t bite the hand that helps you ….. it just might backfire.

 

GdV, sounds as if you have given reason a good effort but haven’t been successful due to what we all might know the reason to be. Unfortunate. Why stay so long in such an important role when you know an approach is not correct? Associating yourself is not something I’d think anyone would want to do knowing truth.

Thank you for your initial effort in trying to “right” the ship. I know what it’s like to see the deer in headlights.

As for balancing assets and liabilities, I wasn’t addressing the balance sheet, I referenced the income and expenses statement. I was actually pointing out that our deficit is higher than what was reported. I want accuracy reported and mistakes acknowledged and explained. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable ask.

And while I’m aware we have cash and assets, daily decisions and spend can affect that quickly. And one more time – good financial stewardship is desperately needed.

Why hasn’t financial education 101 been offered if this has been an issue for years? Great idea, and I’d support it and attend if it doesn’t showcase the current methods used - it probably hasn’t been embraced as it may put a kink in things for those in the driver’s seat, as would providing appropriate explanations.

Also, thank you for acknowledging what many celebrate - the wonderful holiday and meaning of Easter. Happy Easter to you, too, Dave - celebrate that your Creator loves you - regardless of the unbelief.

Have a blessed Easter.

 

It was interesting the other day SBB when one of the board members asked how many of those in attendance at the Exchange would attend a budget workshop? A smattering of hands went up, but hardly a reflection of potential attendees. There wasn't that many members in the room to start with. If the RCSC had a really good outreach process, targeted sessions on topics of interest could well attract those with either a passing interest or who were well versed and wanted to get involved.

This concept isn't really that hard: If you want member involvement, identify the potential interested parties, invite them in, share your knowledge and ask for their help. My old friend Ben's philosophy was the best and it worked: Reach out and ask them for help.

I can tell you every time we did that, we found we grew the circle and increased our ability to become more effective.

 

Yup.

 

If it happens, it certainly will not be you. Hope this makes it to your fake external hard drive.
How’s the best quotes from Sun City coming along? Here’s one from my father. “Experience is a hard teacher, it fives tests first and lessons afterwards.” Another one “ When you think you are finished learning, you are finished.”
Very wise man.

 

So what other activities in Sun City produce profits? How much of the annual expenses does each rec center cost? Nothing in Sun City provides a profit. Regardless of what you say, you have golf your whipping boy.

 

Hardly a whipping boy Larry, it's just the realities of owning 8 golf courses. The first 30 years of PIF revenue will see some 100 million dollars in golf course and golf outbuildings of investments. Not the golfers fault but it is going to be an issue going forward. We know Generation X aren't committed to golf like the greatest generation or even the boomers. In fact, as they work later in life, everything we offer in Sun City will be tested. Less leisure time will put a strain on everything the RCSC does. It's why whatever we do, we best do it well.

The good news is, we still have some of the best golf prices in Arizona; not summer season, everyone gives it away. Our peak season has good rates, but they need to do a better job on keeping the courses up. It will be interesting to see who they hire to take Brian's place, they need to get that hire right, someone who can work with the golfers and find a structure that works and is sustainable.

I actually don't pay much attention to golf anymore, i know some of the golfers on GAC and i know they are having their voices heard as they try and reshape what was simply an unsustainable structure. Nothing needs to make a profit, the real questions is how deep a hole anything the RCSC runs is too deep?

That's why the data matters and why making sure the members know what the data says is so important.

 

"it fives tests first"??? One of two things. either dad wasn't so smart or you didn't absorb what he said. Going with #2.

 

Why is it that two members of this online community are allowed to continue to ruin every thread with their personal attacks on one another? Come on admin, either name a moderator or take charge as the owner/administrator and boot them off until the childish name calling can be held in check. Perhaps a thread where they can just abuse one another is in order, that we the serious discussions we are trying to have here won't be interrupted by their tantrums.

Of course, this is just one guy's opinion.

 

I apologize, it should read experience is a hard teacher, it GIVES tests first and lessons afterward. Satisfied?

 

So what are our options? Try and sell off the properties for a song? Knowing that we’ll get next to nothing for them? Actually I’ve seen surveys that show that future generations are playing more golf than we are. Again, as you stated, the water issue is huge, but not just for Sun City. Remember when the Real ID was going into effect in May of 2008? My point is that deadline ain’t gonna happen. Golf is way too important to Arizona to suddenly shut down the biggest tourist attraction we have.

 

All good points. I argue the best way to address the issue is to look at the community as a whole and seek to work collaboratively with the state to reduce water usage. Can the state and EPCOR start grant programs to allow older communities like ours address the cost of installing desert landscaping. How many codo associations would sign up to replace water thirsty grass with native desert landscaping if part or all of the cost was covered? Seems like a good option to me.

 

I heard they are going after the older courses in particular. Like pre-1985. Please don't quote me on the exact year though.