Planning a Restaurant

It's real hard for us to get even a solid franchise in here. Most of these companies want to have their restaurants off our newer freeways where they can make the most money, new housing and new venues are. I would love to get Buona Beef ( Chicago) or Polly's Pies ( Los Angeles chain) in here, but not sure if they would consider doing it based on the criteria I stated above. If anyone knows any good franchisee, please let them know. I mean you just never know. Things just may not ever change now because of the risk and poor economic factors.

 

Read all about RCSC BUYING BUILDINGS
TOSC previous discussion thread:
https://talkofsuncity.com/threads/rcsc-buying-buildings.5862/

General info that was in the Sun City Indepedent article, April 25, 2024, print edition, most everyone gets it delivered free weekly. Some read it, hope most do for credible local information.

“The board was offered a chance to purchase the former Acuity Specialty Hospital at the intersection of Thunderbird Boulevard and North 111th Avenue April 21. The offer was not made with a set price being discussed. The facility had been to auction starting at $1.6 million, but the highest bid of $2.95 million did not meet the price required for its sale, prompting the seller’s agent to contact RCSC.”

Source: Sun City Independent
RCSC invites resident input on opportunity
Board offered 4.6 acre building for purchase ( Article headline)
Posted Thursday, April 25, 2024
By Scott Tynes | Independent Newsmedia
https://talkofsuncity.com/threads/rcsc-buying-buildings.5862/

 

I am personally not familiar with the property so commenting on specifics is not in my purview. What I am asking is if this property would be a prudent investment for the RCSC to consider? There are folks better informed about construction and remodeling costs, and comparing what could be done at such a location versus trying to modify one of the rec centers into something it probably can’t be. From reading what the Acuity property offers versus trying to create that same amount of space into an existing rec center seems kind of attainable to me. Again, I have no experience in construction or commercial property development so all I can do is surmise what could be done with additional space versus trying to add space where it doesn’t exist. And it’s already in Sun City so we are not trying to replicate it outside the white walls.
When the Lakes Club was offered to the RCSC, I believe it was for $8 million dollars and Sun Health retained the ownership of the dirt under the building. We would have purchased the building only. I can only guess what the outcome could have been long term. We were never afforded the opportunity to discuss further details about how the total property could be purchased as the building was sold while we were told talks were underway with Sun Health.
Fast forward to today and another property presents itself. Is this a good investment? Should we investigate its potential, or are we sure it doesn’t meet any of our needs? I suspect this will be the last time the property will be available for purchase, as commercial property is selling and to be in a good location for development can make it attractive for an investor to purchase the property and create condos or multi family living. Do we watch another opportunity lost or is this an opportunity to walk away from?

 

By viewing the aerial view of Acuity, it appears to being multiple pods connected with hallways. The current footprint could be converted into two separate wings. One side a restaurant/upscale shopping area and the other into a small venue suitable for theater presentations or other entertainment activities that could be arranged for the audience. This would keep the current footprint intact. Looking at the parking lot, it appears it is small so some of the outdoor space would need to be converted into parking.
This is not a small undertaking and requires capital expenditures. But is the overall cost to accommodate what this community needs better suited in a different building or continue to try to expand the rec center space and lose some of the amenities at each considered location? I have no idea, just making suggestions and pondering what could be.

Amended to include another idea. Incorporate a culinary school at the restaurant side of the venue, making it upscale dining but also offering students the opportunity to further explore their craft and invite different menu options through the student and resident input. Perhaps offer cooking classes for the members during the off hours, utilizing the space for multiple activities.

 

Don’t forget Arrowhead Grill, Flemings and Firebirds to name a few.

 

The Sicilian Butcher, really?

The only upscale thing about that place is the high price for meatballs!

 

IMHO the economics have to drive the restaurant decision and BP 16 will flush that out if it is correctly applied. One thing I noted in this thread is the wealth of opinions without data on what should be done. I think this is a prescription for financial collapse. What happened to applying data-based analysis before an item is put on the PIF list? To me it boils down to whether any restauranter would invest their capital to start from scratch an upscale restaurant in a seasonal fixed income community knowing that they have to make a year's worth of profit over the course of 5 months. I have accepted the reality that all the real money leaves sun city when the Snowbirds go home.

 

Father Sarducci’s in Youngstown has great pizza, try the Vatican veggie, is really great. Being from Chicago I am very picky about pizza, no pineapple or ham or ranch dressing (!?) or any other of the weird combos out here that somehow acceptable.

 

If they serve steak, is it dry aged and for how long. If the answer is no or they don’t understand the question, run very fast from this place. The steak is probably crap and not prime.

 

If a restaurant can’t survive on P83 people should question why anyone would think an upscale restaurant could have any chance of success in Sun City. For any business to survive in the west valley, you have to attract the locals as well as the snowbirds. In a city that has a stable year-round population, it’s a roll of the dice for a new restaurant to make it. In Sun City, it’s a pipe dream to believe an upscale restaurant could survive.

 

I think we all realize that but what would people say if the Board ignored all of the people that wanted one in the survey? They should investigate the possibility and then explain why it isn't going to happen. Just like disc golf.

 

As stated earlier in this thread, Restaurants are a tough business.
Anyone thinking of opening a restaurant in Sun City is a real stretch.
As mentioned earlier, there were 14 restaurants at one time in Sun City. Where are they now? No one answered that.
I'll take a stab at it and I'm sure I'll be chastised for my response but here goes.
Sun City was marketed as (and still is) the Cheapest retirement community in the nation in a few ways.
Still waiting to hear what the definition is of an Upscale Restaurant?
If you don't get out of Sun City, you will never know what an upscale restaurant is.
Dominics at Bell and 99th is nice and food is decent but upscale it is not.
Father Salducci's is great for pizza and beer, but upscale it is not.
Chrissys Ninos is a pizza shop, upscale it is not.
Nino's Mexican (formerly of Sun City) is not upscale.
Mercers's on Peoria is more like The Royal Cafe. Upscale it is not.
Arrowhead Grill is decent, but still not upscale.
Flemings may qualify as upscale.

No upscale restaurant would ever consider opening an establishment in Sun City.

 

As i mentioned early on in this thread, the closest thing to "fine dining" in Sun City was in the more elegant restaurant found at the Lakes Club. It was owned and operated by DEVCO with the express purpose of closing the deal for potential home buyers. The goal was to wow them with the elegance and beauty of water-front dining. It was also at a time when country club living was at its zenith.

After DEVCO left for the greener pastures of Sun City West and company president Bob Swanson started selling off everything DEVCO built, the one property he struggled to sell was the Lakes Club. The sheer size, some 36,000 sq feet was daunting' along with the price tag. They tried running it as a private country club (without golf) but that was only marginally successful.

Society changes, and from my daily news feeds, i get bankruptcy filings with restaurant closures being the most often seen. Doesn't matter; high end, middle of the pack or fast food joints...there's simply too many of them and not enough end users. It's supply and demand with the inflation factor kicking it all square in the you know whats.

SCR, Larry and others are right; a high end restaurant would be folly here. Any suggestion the RCSC should build one for Gordon Ramsey to appear and run it has to be happening from one too many stops at our many marijuana shops now dotting the landscape. It's just doesn't make any sense.

Like i said earlier (and repeatedly), had the RCSC allowed the membership to have a voice in buying the Lakes Club (circa 2012/2013), Sun City would look nothing like it does today. NOTHING. The Grand Ave property would never have been bought/built. Mountain View would be done. The Theater would be at the Lakes Club, adjacent to the water. We would have a true community center with ample opportunity to do literally anything we would have wanted. The Vintage Auto club would be in a newly rebuilt building behind the bowling alley.

And, had we just been willing to let members have a voice, rather be terrified of their answers, we might just be planning the rebuild on the remainder of the crow jewel of Sun City...the Lakeview Rec Center.

 

This subject keeps resurfacing. First of all, Joe LaRue was not SH Foundation, he was VP of SH Properties. and one of the kindest men I have ever met. Never heard him raise his voice in 17 years, much less use foul language. From a previous statement you made it appears he asked you to meet him for lunch regarding The Lakes Club. You did not.

At the members only Sun City Museum addition grand opening i was standing talking with Jerry Svendsen. He worked as the PR guy though all of Sun City's development for DEVCO. We've become friends and enjoy talking with him. He knows tons of folks from those early years and has stories in abundance. As we were chatting in the kitchen a guy walked up and said hi to him and they began talking about the good old days. I had never met the man but quickly realized it was Joe LaRue with the Sun Health Foundation.

Jerry introduced me to him and i was at my usual worst. We shook hands and i said "i can't tell you how many times i have taken your name in vain over the past years Joe." He looked at me shocked and asked pointedly what he had done to deserve that? I told him i was on the RCSC when the Lakes Club had come up for sale and i would have killed for us to have been able to purchase it. You may recall, the Lakes Club was owned by a separate corporation (that wanted to sell it) and the land was owned by the Sun Health Foundation. As board members we were told the RCSC was trying to work out a deal with Joe to secure the land in a trade for some office space in the building for the Foundation.

It would have been a win/win, but allegedly Joe never followed through on making it happen. I always felt he was in part responsible for our failure to go after it. Shame on me. He told me he had no idea there was any real interest in it. In reality, there probable wasn't, other than from Carole and I. As we chatted, he indicated there was always the opportunity moving forward for that to happen. I explained i had no authority to do anything but as we talked about the importance of that building in Sun City's history be quickly understood why it mattered.

He invited me to contact him to follow up and after the holidays, i will. Not because i can make anything happen, but because i still believe our owning the one building that DEVCO never deeded us could become the most valuable addition we could make in Sun City. Not my job, but clearly in Sun City's best interest.

All for now, off to SCHOA.

BPearson, Nov 27, 2019

Seems like you were the only one who even had a chance. Did you ever contact him? Not that it really matters, you can't change the past.

 

I have had discussions with one of the biggest proponents of this and it is clear they have taken a want from the survey wish list and made it into a need. On a high level, it is clear no rational restauranter would ever consider investing in fine dining in a fixed income community. From what my high school acquaintance who was CEO of Red Lobster for years, it is critically important to match the style of restaurant to the income level of the hood. The proponents of this are IMHO using some vague survey data to conclude that if you build it they will come. IMHOP this is a prescription for failure. I only ask that those that think this is a great idea obtain expressions of interest from Restauranters.

 

So back to my post last week of Title 10 vs Title 33. Doesn’t 33 offer the members more of a voice?

 

The Lakes Club was a private ( membership only) dinner club when built by DEVCO. It was the kind of place our grandparents would take their spouse on a Saturday evening to do a sit down nice meal, and waltz around the floor like Lawrence Welk styled music. I remember from my youth living here. We should of still bought that building when offered 10 years ago. It was one of our original structures that furthered the idea of wonderful amenity for the community. We could of used half of the building for corporate offices and again, put in a nicer styled restaurant with some weekend music venue for going out for something nice. We really lost out on an important historical opportunity for us.

 

I do think if we could get a middle class franchise in here like Buona Beef of Chicago to invest. Look at there menu and you will see that this restaurant is the perfect modern demographic for SC. Polly's Pies out of California would be great in here too. Does anyone know anyone who works for these companies?? I would love to see either one of these guys come in here!