RCSC members propose data-driven master plan

Letter to the Sun City Independent editor
RCSC members propose data-driven master plan

By Gary Osier and John Fast | Sun City

Using objective data greatly improves the quality of decisions. Recreation Centers of Sun City hasn’t properly used data in the past, making decisions that negatively impact the affordability and condition of our amenities, and the reputation of our community. Use of objective data by an expert will ensure that data drives future development instead of the wants of a small group of members.

We believe RCSC should contract with an expert to develop a member-approved master plan before embarking on fixing any one site, but recognize renovation of Mountain View Recreation Center has dragged on far too long. We are pleased RCSC appears committed to developing a well-thought-out plan and has committed funds to start the process.

Development firm triARC Architecture and Design appears focused on delivering the most bang for the buck assuming all existing amenities stay at Mountain View. Cost, utilization, functionality and other data should guide stakeholder discussions and the decision-making process to address the needs of the community as a whole. This is much different than previous efforts.

The next step for triArc is to meet with theater, pickleball, swimming, mini-golf, dance, lawn bowling, tennis and other stakeholders to discuss how the data impacts each group’s wants. Operational and capital cost and volume of usage will be key elements of this discussion. Member demographics, high-level utilization analysis, trends in 55+ communities and comparisons with other age-restricted communities also should be examined.

Data-driven processes also could prevent emotional spending sprees by the board that might create expensive-to-maintain buildings. In our opinion, members should not expect volunteer directors with diverse backgrounds to possess the skills and expertise necessary to make a good master plan. Our advice is to hire an expert planning firm ASAP.

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Sun City Independent posted online, Monday, March 24, 2025
https://www.yourvalley.net/sun-city...embers-propose-data-driven-master-plan,571540

 

I agree with the use of valid and reliable data to guide decision making. The question becomes how valid and reliable is the data being used. I have my doubts about some of the data being used because of the tools and methods used to gather the data such as at the rec. centers. Some data seems to subjective such as the responses to the five questions presented to the members by triarc.

 

Thanks Eyes Open. I hope members agree that having an expertly developed member approved master plan is a great improvement to spending tens of millions of dollars without any idea of how each expenditure contributes to the whole. Director Kise mentioned this could be a very expensive proposition and seemed to indicate that SCW and Wickesberg's master plan was a bunch of fluff. I think this is a very short-sighted comment. The report that is generated is a very valuable marketing tool for buyers considering a move to Sun City. The process of having an expert collect, collate and analyze relevant data is a no brainer for anyone that understands how the capital allocation process is working today and how it should be working for the benefit of all members. The secret to success is to let the right expert do their work without special interests lobbying them. Let the data do the talking.

 

For a while I was up in the air about a master plan. But if the experts COLLECT and analyze the data, I only see one remaining problem.

Do you actually think the people here will accept the advice of another expert? We've had lots of experts over the years. It never seems to go over very well. I realize they were experts specific to the project so hopefully the plan experts would have less problems.

 

Data can be manipulated to produce a wanted outcome.

 

The ASU survey/report was supposed to use data to draw conclusions. Was that data valuable? How has it been used?

 

Not to sound like i know what i am talking about, BUT, the key to anything/everything the RCSC wants to do or be successful it is contained in a two word summary: "Great Communication." I hate to minimize the challenges and honestly if we look at past performances as a measuring stick, they are in a world of hurt.

I also think they learned a valuable lesson in the space of a ten day period with two major events. The annual membership meeting was an abysmal failure, while the Mountain View Session was a massive success. Having sat through both, i cannot tell you how staggering the differences were. If i could identify why, the first was an internal effort they just wanted to get through. The second was an external product done by people who understand good/great communication starts with listening with everything flowing from there.

They (the RCSC) has a mountain to climb and it only works when the members are there every step of the way.

We'll see eh?

 

Yep, we'll see. People were unhappy before the member meeting. Much more so post meeting. But one never knows, the Zoot Suit may make a comeback too.

 

And how long will those Members who submitted motions and amendments have to wait to find out what the Boards "study" has determined?

I doubt you will hear anything from the Board itself but will have to wait for the long drawn-out affair of the Ad Hoc committee.

BTW...we're still waiting to hear about the creation of that committee!

 

I think the real question is how long do we have to wait for the corporate attorney to decide whether or not to honor then reply to the motions and amendments submitted.
I believe the adhoc committee really needs to focus on clearing up the mess the corporate documents are in. Clean up the ambiguous language and look for clear language and direction to be put into a common sense document. The revisions done to the original bylaws were willfully rewritten to create a top-down organization. They need to, once again, be about the shared purpose of the members and the board.

 

Welp Tom, I kind of think my Zoot Suit comment covers that. Most things run their course. How about "the Wave" in Scottsdale? We are ever evolving thank God! Elon's newest thing is a robot chef that can out cook a real chef. And so much more important how about Elon's Neuralink device for blind people? Blindsight is being developed to enable individuals with total visual impairment due to damage to the optic nerve but with intact visual cortex to see, this is made possible by bypassing the optic nerve and directly stimulating the visual cortex to create a visual perception.

But people like Dave and Bill will keep griping about his accomplishments. Sun City is a tiny pimple on this planet compared to what Musk is accomplishing for the future. But let's just focus on dog parks. PAC's and letting the needy in our community keep suffering.

How about working in the now??? I did not expect anything from my parents. Why are we so focused on the next generation? Did we raise a bunch of incapable kids? Keep SC safe and fun for our generation. I expect to be dead on 15 years so I really don't think I will care. Let the next one take care of themselves. We did, well not very well I guess.

 

The edits to the documents that were in place, prior to the revisions, should be available at the Arizona Corporation Commission. Every time revisions to the documents occurred, the board secretary had to make sure they were submitted to the state agency for approval. Now, they could say there was a fire at the warehouse and the documents were all destroyed. I understand this is a favored response. Or, they are on microfiche and would have to be viewed in person in order to get the information desired. Some where there is a paper trail.

 

Amazing

 

Golly gee Tom, the bylaws committee from days of yore answered that question and it was ten days. Too bad the idiots who opposed them and the clowns on the Board voted them down, otherwise you would have had them by now. Isn’t Karma a bitch.
I have nothing to do with the formation of the new committee.

 

Fire in the warehouse, how convienent for this situation. You mean there was not a sprinkler system installed. So all of the records are destroyed? Didn’t any of you moppets ever think something like this would happen? Flying Spaghetti Monster please save us from these Republicans.

 

My comment was a sarcastic statement in regards to a prior attempt to locate records of yore. I know as each amendment of these documents occur, copies were forwarded to the Arizona Corporation Commission. When I tried, one other time, to get copies, make copies, seek permission to review prior records, I got nowhere. As each update to the documents has happened, the changes were submitted, yet I can’t seem to find any way to retrieve them. My dilemma further explained.

 

OK, try filing a Freedom of Information request with the ACC, maybe give them s9me time off from approving every rate increase requested by the utility companies.

why doesn’t the corporate office have these documents? They should be available for inspection and copying.

 

As changes have been made to the bylaws, all prior written documents have been removed and not available, to my knowledge. When I was on the board, and modifications were made to corporate documents, when seeking what was written prior to the change was no longer possible to be found. It was as if the entire document was expunged and disappeared in to thin air. It was deliberately removed from any form of viewing with the intention of making sure the original document was not to be recovered. This is why I feel the only location which would have the copies of the original documents and subsequent changes would be the ACC. The changes had to be submitted to them. In order to see what the original documents stated, the only true way to get them is through the ACC.

 

Dave,
I take offense at you calling me and another bylaws committee an "idiot" because we opposed the bylaws that were presented. We had very good reason to oppose them and we made it very clear it was because our revision didn't allow petitions to be signed on RCSC property. Several weeks after they were voted down, at least two of the Directors were gathering signatures for absentee ballots on RCSC property, the very thing they opposed, and telling Members who to vote for in the election. Talk about hypocrisy! They are no longer on the Board making decisions. Yes, Karma is a bitch! An apology to me and Pat G should be forthcoming from you, but I doubt you have ever made an apology in your life. I live by "When you are wrong, promptly admit it" and "Treat others like you would like to be treated yourself". Try those on for size.

 

Janet, your memory is failing you. Allen specifically said at the Board meeting where the new by laws were presented that if the Board approves the by laws, he will personally motion for a change in the new by laws for signatures on RCSC property. Even though they were defeated, early the next year he proposed the change and it passed. He kept his word which is more than I can say for you.
You whine what a terrible time you had but seemingly had time to boogie off to NE to be involved in a political campaign. Why didn’t you just quit? Sorry about your nasty fall and hope you healed properly with no ill effects. It also proved to me that Zoom calls have their tech limits which is why I argued strenuously against them as a way around the 10 month physical availability.
I was not referring to you nor Pat when I used the term idiot, I was referring to certain persons in the membership who complained about everything about them even though it was quite clear they had no idea what they were talking about. That included some Board members. So they were defeated and it was back to square one and the Board has spent the past couple of years trying to undo that terrible decision. They are even bringing back the committee for a do over.

Karma is a bitch and she will return quite soon bringing her banshees with her.