The SAC...revisted.

Actually, there are 3 alternatives to a "committee of the whole" each having different rules, and which alternative is used is dependent on the size of the assembly.
1. A Committee of the Whole
2. The Quasi Committee of the Whole
3. Informal Considerations

Next:

I do believe our Bylaws state that 6 Directors are required to achieve a quorum. As you know, without a quorum no business can be conducted that would finalize anything.

 

Josie, This Board had no involvement with the Grand Recreation Center so I don't think you can fault them for it being done in the dark of night. Real estate transactions, such as the Thunderbird potential purchase, is certainly within the purview of Executive Sessions. It didn't come to fruition.

I can understand the confusion about my comment regarding executive committees. I meant the officers of the Board could meet which would be President, VPres, Secretary and Treasurer.With only four of them, they could have meetings without notice or in public.

I think the news article may have been inaccurate about Chris's and Anita's statements. I don't think they said they necessarily wanted it at Lakeview or to replace the lawn bowling. At least not at the meeting I watched.

Like you I also have to watch the candidate videos. I did see Mr. Ege's. My concern is how he voted when he was on the Board the last time. He also didn't attend the last several meetings of his ter. Might have been because he became employed by RCSC. Rumor has it that the person who started the petitions is his campaign manager. Not sure if that is true.

 

John,

I, too, am committed to a sustainable government process with Member input. Always have been. I supported you when you ran for the Board, campaigned and voted for you. Please tell me exactly why you resigned. That would be transparency.

I agree that the PAC, as well as the indoor dog training facility, were rushed to votes. The PAC has been on the PIF list for years, but I don't think the indoor dog training facility was ever on it until recently nor was it on the ASU survey. That concerns me because it may be built before other projects that have been waiting for years.

Regarding the PAC, I would not have supported it being built on the lawn bowling greens.

I don't think the Board was initially aware of the library closures, at least most some of them weren't as far as I know. The GM should have been held accountable for that fiasco. The current president stated that did take place. However personnel decisions are usually kept private.

Chris Nettlesheim has extensive knowledge and experience with technology and she has worked hard to upgrade ours. I would hate to lose her. Both she and Anita have worked tirelessly.
So has Connie and I commend her for firmly stating her opinion about the PAC even if it isn't what people want. Who is going to replace these people? How qualified will they be? What are their agendas? I have heard rumors but don't care to express those since I don't know how true they are.

I resigned from the Advocates because I knew I would be busy with the Foundation. I also saw that it lacked direction. I only attended a couple of meetings.

This may be a surprise to you, but I have only talked to a few of the RCSC Directors individually a few times about the Foundation much like I did with you when you were a Director. I only know them through their official duties as Board members and have never met with any of them. Two of them were present when Linda and I approached the Foundation about starting to write grants and finding other revenue streams. The minutes of that meeting state Linda and I "were not a good fit". Not sure when that morphed into "we were unqualified".

I emailed one of the RCSC Directors that sit on the Foundation Board in early fall when I learned they were going to expand the Foundation Board. In that email, I suggested that they publish the openings and request applications from any Member so that they could choose the most qualified to appoint in January. I was surprised when I received an email from Marcia Johnson in October telling me I had been appointed. I do not know why they chose to do it then. Unfortunately it has generated some unnecessary controversy.

I have always stated my opposition to the closed meetings the Board has after the Exchange. Is this where some of the mistrust comes from? You would know because you were at many of them.

Assumptions are not always accurate. I think those you have of me are incorrect. Perhaps we should meet for coffee, as you have suggested, when I get back to Sun City next week and clear the air between us.

Janet

 

I am giving you a perspective from the community, not as a board member. I have not read the AOI's or the By-laws so I can't give any input on those things, but I sure know how it feels to be a resident. My neighbors, friends, golfers, social gatherings, the general consensus is the board does not care about the members and they are becoming apathetic. Regular board meetings draw about 70 residents. The Library and PAC meeting drew 400. That says a lot. Please re-read the Independent article. It will not let me upload it.

The number of for sale signs last weekend was mind boggling. 600 homes for sale (Realtor.com)

If RCSC purchased the Grand Bldg. why would the board not know about it? here's a snip from 8/20 Sun Views. *** The final Certificate of Occupancy for the Grand Center building located at 10415 W. Grand Ave. has been received and the clubs relocating to this new space are settling in quite nicely. The anticipated full opening of the newest RCSC facility is scheduled for Monday, August 3, 2020.***
August-2020-SunViews-Final-for-Web.pdf

T-Bird didn't come to fruition but that was not my point. No one knew about it until an offer had been presented. I did hear that the board knew about the libraries, but the story changes later. Will look into that as well.

 

Janet: My apologies, you said "this" board and you are correct.

 

I am beyond dumbfounded to read that money for another dog club amendment is still a topic. I have been in a significant position of caregiving for almost 5 years. During that time I was not able to stay abreast of going’s on at the RCSC. The mere mention of additional money being spent for a dog club at Fairway makes me ill. There are so many other needs in this community that warrant spending of money on. The dog club is a very small special interest group that cries the most and does not warrant any more time or effort at this point.
I have dogs, I love animals, but this dog club and the additional resources they continually beg for has got to stop.
There are so many needs in Sun City that deserve and need attention. The dog club is not a place to continue to dump money into. I was on the board when the dog club asked for sails to cover the outdoor area. I was on the board when additional money was requested for grass because rock wasn’t enough. The additional funds to cover these expenses are always borne by the members of the RCSC, not the dog club. When I see the dog club start footing the bill for all of these grandiose expenses and costs, that is when I will support their efforts.
There has always been a need for transportation here. There is a need for a community development action plan, there is a need for a long term plan with a comprehensive outline for guidance for continuing to maintain the lifestyle of Sun City. I will say it again, there is no need for additional dollars and debt for a dog club. If you want it, pay for it yourself.

 

My understanding is that the dog folks want to use the auditorium at MV for an indoor dog training facility. Don’t quote me on this though!

 

What is the $1.5M RCSC Board approved PIF funding ($500k-2025, $1M-2026) for the BFDG being spent on?

 

Great question MikeM. I believe the first amount was to study and find a place for an indoor facility. Steve Collins made that motion within the last year. Maybe the question should be asked at the next exchange meeting.

 

Good question and one we will have no answers to until we see the Tri-arc "elements" drafted for the board. From a distance it looks like moving the PAC to the bowling greens at Lakeview was an effort to free up space at MV for "other" indoor activities. We know MV has limited parking available and we know those limitations are driven by the total square footage of indoor space developed. It's always been the challenge of the Mountain View footprint.

We know the pool and accompanying fitness/changing rooms/bathrooms and spa are givens. We don't know the plans for that coveted auditorium? Seems to me those "elements" should be released so we can proceed on the MV renovation post haste.

 

What is the benefit to the community from the dog club? What form of service do they provide to the residents of Sun City? Are they ever involved in adopting of dogs in need? Do they offer free or reduced cost veterinary services to the community? When I look at the amount of money given back to the RCSC by the Men’s Club and others, I see a significant contribution to the community as a whole. What is the significance of the dog club and how much do they give back? All I see are constant expenditures for the benefit of a small group of people.
A review of cost incurred because of the dog club versus value offered would reveal a significant loss of money to the RCSC and to the community. I love animals of all kinds, but the two legged ones are being greedy in their relationship with the community and the RCSC. I understand special interests, but the dog club takes it too far.
A complete investigation into monies spent by the RCSC as well as money received to the RCSC by the dog club is overdue. This club is easily someone’s special interest and should have a light shone into their actions and costs. The expenses to the RCSC by the dog club were excessive a few years ago. There was no revenue from the club reported, so the money it’s costing for this club is excessive in my opinion and the flow of cash needs to be addressed.

 

One difficulty I have is the disjointed nature of communications members receive on any given topic and the abbreviated nature of such communication. It leaves me relying on my memory which is always dangerous but here goes. As I recall, Director Collins who was up for reelection (probably as a favor to Director Fimmel) made a motion at a meeting at which a significant number of Dog Club members were present and spoke to build an indoor Dog facility. Darla Aikens, then on the Board and also seeking reelection jubilantly seconded the motion and the indoor dog facility was off and running. At the time it was unclear what this meant, and no budget was allocated to the project. At a later meeting Director Collins made a motion to budget $1.5M for a facility of about 10,000 square feet. At that meeting it was learned management had already investigated possible sites for Kat's Dog park. (Sorry, I could not resist the pun.) I mentioned that based on construction estimates obtained during the SAC a facility of this size would cost at least $7M. I am not in favor of this proposal.

 

Thank you so much. If you scroll up a little Emily I realized I made a mistake with "this" board and made my apologies to Janet. And I'll leave it at that.

 

And I joined you, John, in my dissent.
Jean

 

I feel the same way about the PAC. As I type I looked out the front window and noticed our sweet snowbird is back with her Shit Szu out walking. The woman has one leg, yet there she is, most likely because of her little pup getting out. Dogs are a very important part of people's lives, especially the elderly. Look it up. The only time an indoor dog facility is required would be in the summer. How many people do not get out in the 115 degree temps with their fur buddies due to the heat? So, in your opinion dog clubs don't matter, only clubs who can give to RCSC monetarily matter. So much for SC being a place all about the residents. At least we know where your priorities lie.

Sorry you had to go to the trouble of changing your name. It's not easy, although I could have helped you keep your real name. As far as the infighting talk to the two men who sling the arrows and do all the name calling.

 

Thanks for the info John and I believe your memory is working well. So it seems we have two facilities to guess where they will be situated—indoor dog facility and the PAC. Wonder when we will get the info on these items. Maybe I will go to the exchange and ask the BOD.

 

I never said dog clubs don’t matter. Please show me where I said that as a quote please Josie!
I take exception to the Best Friends Dog Club continuing to make cash requisitions at a significant expense to the community. This club always has been a drain on resources with nothing given in return. Have you ever seen this “club” offer any sort of services to the other dog owners of the community? Any reduced rate veterinary services for the RCSC members? Any animal placement or adoption services to the general population? Any animal services of any kind offered to the members of Sun City? Please let me know as I have seen nothing offered by this “club” that offers community enrichment. I know they will do dog training to their members, but these offers are not open to the general membership.
Yes, I take issue with your position and commentary as to what I said. As a matter of fact, based upon your rendering of the story, there is a one legged woman who walks her dog. She is admired by you for being adept and loving enough to continue to walk and care for her pet, despite possible physical limitations. That is truly a wonderful woman who loves her dog. So, pray tell, how is the dog club helping her?
I am most concerned with a specific club that I called the dog club. There is only one sanctioned dog club in Sun City. And I am most definitely concerned with giving away any kind of money to this club. They take from the RCSC pot of money, and offer no service to the community in return. No pet outreach, no discounts for veterinary services, no free pet food for the neediest pet owners, no rehoming service for pets whose owners are in need or have passed away. Yes, I am critical of this “club” as enough of the special interests getting cash that takes away from other projects make me angry.
Josie, here is hoping you now have a clear understanding of my intent. I said in my original post of my love for animals. I support anyone trying to make it better for pet owners here in Sun City. I don’t want my yearly assessment going up again and finding out money was given to someone’s special interest.

P.S. what name I choose to post under is my choice. Got it?

 

Got it! "Until such time I can ever recover my original CMartinez login, I will use this login for the time being. It is I, Carole Martinez, long time contributor, anf former board member. I have not been as active on TOSC as Iwould like to be due to other reasons no worth getting into right now."

So you just "take exception" to BFDC, but they do matter? If the residents who belong to the club paid $5/year to RCSC would that be ok? What about the pools? Is there a separate fee to use them? I know tennis is $10/year, Lawn Bowling is $5/year at bell Center.

The services they offer is dog training with a result of well trained dogs not lunging, showing aggression while on walks thru the community with their owners. Not to mention socialization of elderly, and even not so elderly owners which happens to be a very important part of aging. It's probably hard for you to wrap your head around the fact that some folks who live here may be alone with a dog and don't want to join pottery etc. Maybe their only real joy in life are their pets. Just because something doesn't fit your personal agenda does not make it irrelevant.

Pray tell, I will ask her if she belongs to the club, goes to the dog park etc. Being here for a few short months a year she may not know they exist.

Maybe it's just the tone of your post. Very angry towards the dog club. I guess giving old folks who love their dogs a place to gather and train their pups is not "enriching" their lives. Maybe you would like to see the dogs tug and pull their owners around and snarl and lunge towards other dogs and people. Remember the two pitties that attacked a woman and her two dogs recently here in SC? A couple stopped to help, one with a walking stick and one on a walker. They used their medical equipment to help the woman fend off the dogs. One of the dogs lost both eyes due to the attack. It was in the Independent recently.

As I said in my first response they only need an indoor facility during the summer months. If you are referring to the $1.5 million facility talk to Kat. I believe it's her agenda "baby". Personally I don't think any new buildings should even be considered until what we have is fixed. Sometimes you have to be careful what you ask for:

Every once in a while a true talent is offered to the RCSC Board of Directors. This year it is Kat Fimmel. Her skills are beyond reproach. Her knowledge of things electronic and wireless is astonishing. She brings with her hands on skill which can be applied directly to the RCSC needs. In other words, she has the knowledge, skills, and abilities this BOD needs to help them get to the 20th century and move forward. She can help with the needs of a 21st century community.

So don't forget, vote for Kat Fimmel for the board, she is the ray of hope desperately needed.

SunCityGal, Oct 5, 2020

Please, vote for Kat Fimmel in the RSCS elections. She has the knowledge, skill and the abilities needed to help move the BOD onto bigger and better things. She is soft spoken, but extremely knowledgeable and aware of what this community needs.

So, remember to vote in the RCSC elections, and make Kat Fimmel your number one choice.

Go Kat!

CMartinez, Oct 6, 2020




P.S. I "got it" more than you realize. So you are blessed with at least two accounts here. How very democratic of you. Gives the impression more people recommending a particular candidate.

 

Josie, bringing a close the “dialogue” between you and I. It’s a waste of time and energy to deal with someone like yourself. Probably explains why no one else responds to your threads and other pointless posts.

My energy is better spent on something that is not retrieving posts that are almost 5 years old.

Perhaps someone else will find you entertaining, and further engage you, it will not be me.

 

When the truth hurts it's best to ignore it. I don't have to search, I just remember things. It's a curse and a blessing at the same time.