PIF Motion

I was looking over board documents and have a question about the $1000 transfer fee motion brought forth at BOD meeting today. The transfer fee seems directly related to the PIF and so seems funds from it should only be used for PIF and not for capital improvements that don’t meet PIF requirements. I’m not a lawyer so I’m wondering how some of you other members interpret the language. I will look again to see where the reference is located.
Found in Section 1 of BP 24. Thanks for any non-condescending opinions as I am just curious to hear any other opinions. Condescending opinions would also be accepted.

 

Read the motion. It says it's an additional fee to be used for capital improvements.

 

Yes FYI I reread. “In addition”, to me means now the people in this situation pay the existing transfer fee and this one. Double fee?

Wording of motion says, “This fee shall be in addition to the current PIF fee attending property transfers”.

 

We will have TWO entirely different transfer fees. That is confusing. More appropriate names are needed.

1. The new additional $1000 transfer fee associated with the $4000 PIF at time of property purchase, to be used for capital improvements.

AND this, that I have been told covers RCSC administrative staff cost of property management.

2. Transfer Fee – $300/occurrence
A Transfer Fee shall be imposed on the purchase, acquisition, transfer, inheritance, gift or any change in ownership of legal or beneficial interest in the title to property located in Sun City, Arizona pursuant to any deed, contract for sale, will or other instrument or document transferring an interest in such property, so long as the original payer of said Transfer Fee no longer retains a majority ownership interest in the property.

https://suncityaz.org/rcsc/cardholder-information/fees/

 

Thanks eyesopen! Is it the intent of the board to have the purchaser of a property pay these fees? I know other factors can come into play, but my example is meant to simplify the situation.

 

So...let's make it a little more confusion. Article III, Section 2 of the bylaws says that when the original payor no longer retains 50% of the property, then a change in the property title requires the PIF fee ($4000) to be paid.

"...pursuant to any deed, contract for sale, will or other instrument or document transferring an interest in such property, so long as the original payor of the PIF assessment no longer retains a majority (50% or more) ownership interest in the Property..."

So why, if only a husband's name was on the property title and he decides to place his wife's name on the title as well, why is there a need to pay an additional PIF fee when the original payor still retains that 50% ownership?

Doesn't make sense to me! What am I missing?

 

Didn’t something like this happen recently? I seem to recall a post about this situation.

 

A couple of examples of
Ownership Changes & Fees FAQs that do not set well with most Sun City owners. Where’s that sense of community toward an owner (neighbor, friend, family member) already experiencing a difficult major life change?? Is this a heartless, blatant, greedy money grabbing scheme?

Examples…
My spouse added me as an owner and has passed away. Will there be any fees as a result?
Yes. Your spouse, as the original owner of the property, is the original payor of the Preservation and Improvement Fee. Upon the death of the payor of this fee the remaining owner of the property would be charged a Preservation and Improvement Fee and Transfer Fee.

My parents owned their home in a trust and have both passed away. Why would any additional fees be charged when there has not been a transfer from the trust?
While there has not been a recorded deed that changes the ownership of the property, at the time of the last Grantor’s death the vested beneficial interest of the owning Trust has changed. The contingent or remainder beneficiaries become the vested income beneficiaries of the Trust upon the death of the Grantor(s) of the Trust. It is this change in the vested income beneficiary of the owning Trust that RCSC recognizes as a change in ownership and charges a Preservation and Improvement Fee and Transfer Fee.

Read all: https://suncityaz.org/rcsc/faqs/ownership-changes-fees-faqs/

 

Yup, that same exact situation happened where a home purchased around 2002/2003 with just the husbands name on the deed. A couple of years later he added his wife with a quit claim deed. Oddly enough she had been given a rec card (not a privilege card) since the initial purchase. The husband died a year or two ago and they told her she needed to pay the PIF...or prove she had paid the PIF back when the home was purchased. Who keeps checks from 20 years ago? Still unresolved, but clearly not what was intended when the PIF started in 1999. Many of those changes came later on.

As far as the motion to increase the PIF to $5000 with $1000 going towards capital improvements, it passed the first reading with a caveat. Director Fast made a friendly amendment that made sense but needed clarity. As i understand it, before the second reading (Nov), the RCSC will get clear and concise language from their attorney on how to word it in both the RCSC documents and in rewriting the facilities agreement.

This fund will generate between 1.7-2 million dollars a year. We know Sun City has averaged 2000 home sales (PIF transactions) per year, though 2023 will likely be in the 1700 range. The combination of high mortgage rates and inflated home prices are slowing sales. Many people moving to Sun City pay cash, the challenge is selling their home where they live as most often those buyers are taking on mortgages.

 

I’m responding to this post although I realize it’s been over a month since the last activity. I believe I recall previous posts about the PIF collection fees from spouses/beneficiaries following an owner’s death potentially being refunded if the property is then sold again within a year (thus RCSC collecting a new PIF fee from the new owner)….but I cannot seem to find anything to validate this on the website.

BPearson or eyesopen (or anyone) - I’m sure RCSC doesn’t want to advertise a refund opportunity for obvious (and selfish) financial reasons but does anyone know if a refund, when requested due to an inherited property selling again within a year has been the practice and, perhaps separately, is it documented?

 

Go read Board Policy 24

1. the sale/disposition/transfer of a previous primary Arizona residence in Sun City, Arizona is made within one (1) year of the purchase/ acquisition/ transfer/ inheritance of the other primary Arizona residence in Sun City, Arizona;

 

•REFUNDS
RCSC Corporate Bylaws (Article III, Section 2) outlines situations where a refund of the Preservation and Improvement Fee is allowed.
https://suncityaz.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Refunds-FAQs-2019-4.pdf

REFUND FORM https://suncityaz.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/FORM-Refund-Request-2022-09-01.pdf

•CORPORATE BYLAWS
ARTICLE III
SECTION 2: PRESERVATION AND IMPROVEMENT FUND AND ASSESSMENTS
https://suncityaz.org/corporate-bylaws/

OWNERSHIP CHANGES FAQs
https://suncityaz.org/rcsc/faqs/ownership-changes-fees-faqs/

 

Thank you, Tom!! This is exactly what I was interested in. I already own in SC and paid a PIF but also inherited a property (they were the reason we moved here) so #4 is the bullet I was looking for. The house will be transferred to new owners within weeks of my loved one’s passing . That buyer will be responsible for a PIF buy-in and I wondered if RCSC would also come knocking on my door too. Good to know that if they do, a refund should be granted.

 

Thank you too eyesopen — you are the best sleuth around, hands down! I also appreciate having the refund request handy.

 

I think anyone that owned a home prior to the implementation of the PIF should be treated differently than those that came after in regards to surviving spouses that weren’t originally on the deed.

 

Agreed, they have some serious cleanup work regarding those that have lived and owned homes in Sun City for a very long time. I love the fact the PIF was created and all it can and should do for the community and our amenities. I hate when it becomes a money-grubbing tool to go after long time members.

 

The bylaw says that as long as the original payor of the PIF retains 50% of the home, then no additional PIF fee should be charged if the owner decides to put their spouse's name on the title!

 

To anyone's knowledge has there ever been a legal opinion or legal challenge when the fee has been charged on such a deed change?

 

Interesting!?!?!?

I was always under the impression that if you sold a home in Sun City and purchased another one in Sun City that, YES, you had to pay the PIF fee again however you could apply for a refund within one year.

I guess I'm guilty of believing social media as well because if you read the actual refund request form you will see that you actually have 3 years?!?!?