It's The Process; stupid.

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Jul 22, 2023.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Not trying to offend anyone, but after attending the SAC meeting yesterday, the old political line sprang to mind; "it's the economy stupid." The more i thought about the meeting and everything i have watched and read, it all begin to fit. Pieces of the puzzle.

    After more than a dozen years of dismantling member involvement, i see clearly why the former, former GM did it. Working with committee groups and members with any interest in what they are saying is painfully slow. It's far easier and way quicker to just make every decision on your own. Input from others just slows everything down. Sadly, it also creates a setting where bad choices often become common place.

    Let's get back on task and let me say, as painful as this is to trudge through, the process works. The expectations going in by many of those on the committee was trapped in the folly of what the former board had proposed. Not much of it made sense as they created the illusion of being able to afford anything and everything.

    Starting with a Performing Arts Center that looked like it belonged in Scottsdale, to lavish pools and gymnasiums for basketball and volleyball that were convertible to flat spaces that would double for massive gatherings with an indoor walking track, it was rife with questions. And, that was before the two-story pickleball center, newly built lawn bowling green and a large ADA mini-golf course. Truly amazing.

    By the way; did you know a basketball court is 94x50? How big a flat space gathering does that give us? Duh.

    Was it real, or was it smoke? We know for sure, it wasn't practical. 40-50 million dollars and 8 years to complete was just the beginning of the question marks. Water retention, sufficient numbers of parking spaces and how much of what they wanted was practical or needed? The simple truth is; what members asked for became the grandiose plans of a handful of board members. It was nuts.

    After months of meetings, reality has set in and the expectations have been halved. There's still a ways to go, but they are on the right path. I was stunned to hear one committee member say they needed a fitness area comparable to Bell's yesterday but what the heck, it's still a work in process. Hello...Fairway anyone?

    The good news is they narrowed down the location for the Performing Arts Center to Mountain View or Lakeview. The straw vote was interesting and non-binding as the first vote favored MV with the second leaning towards Lakeview. My preference would be Lakeview because it would be bigger and much more usable space by the masses.

    The reality is the Lakeview renovation is years down the road. The Players don't won't to wait for bigger or better so give them their less than 3oo seat theater and we'll make do. Hell, by the time Lakeview is rebuilt we will be two boards down the road from where we are now.

    The beauty of the process is it comes with the reality of what can be done and what can't be. They've yet to come to the question of costs and i can tell you point blank, the sticker shock will change the room dynamic far more than anything else has or will.

    I got an email the other day (no it was not from a board member) so i have no idea if the person who sent it had a clue as to what they were saying. The contention was this: The building cost for a theater these days is $1000 a square foot. You can do the math as well as i can. A 20 million dollar theater is a quick 20 million dollars. I suspect all of those longing for a theater will start ducking for cover when the Players are telling everything else has to be put on hold till they get exactly what they want. Watch how quickly the tide turns if that is the case.

    Back to my opening point: The process works, it always has. Yes it's slow and cumbersome, but i would rather have slow and cumbersome than a handful of board members and the GM making poorly thought out plans. It's how we got mired in the problems we are in right now.

    "It's the Process: stupid." Remember that and we'll all be better off.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2023
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  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    For many/most, they have no idea. I get it, i truly do. Who understands "process" unless you've lived it; been there, done that. Oddly enough, there are some that still engage in the "process," that still toil behind the scenes. They are unseen, and underappreciated. If i told you there's a handful of hard-core Museum volunteers who been scanning thousands of documents into the museum's data base, would you be surprised?

    We are talking stuff that was saved and archived by countless other volunteers from the late 8o's and 90's. Cutting out articles from newspapers, transcribing oral histories from tapes and accepting donations of materials and other items that have become part of the core collection; all part of the process that got us to where we are today. Preserving it by using technology insures it will be available for years going forward.

    My first RCSC committee was in the fall of 2003. I was one of a dozen or more members on the RCSC Communication committee. We met monthly to look at the galleys of the Sun Views. We also helped clubs submit articles and create content to keep them visible. It was a slow cumbersome process, but it was all about engaging members and having them take ownership. Anyone reading my scratching can quickly see where this is going. When the new GM was hired in 2006, all of that changed. Not immediately, but over time.

    Perhaps there was no more important committee than legal affairs. It was made up of retired attorneys and judges who met monthly. They reviewed almost anything substantial the board was going to act on. They simply registered their opinions and suggestions in document form. It was a cumbersome process, but highly effective by insuring decisions never strayed too far afield. It was also the first committee disbanded by the then new GM.

    Once they were gone, rewriting bylaws became the role the GM assumed. Yes she always brought it back to the board to vote and approve, the reality was there was seldom push back. An occasional board member would vote no, but more often than not the rubber stamp was a given. Compare the two styles and you quickly come to understand the difference between a committee of retired legal minds to one where the GM just did what she thought was best. There was none.

    As the years marched on, we streamlined everything. Process was thrown out the window and decisions were made in a vacuum. We can argue the Mountain View open forums were a positive and they were. In fact they are still on line and you can watch the recommendations that came from them. The suggestions looked nothing like the 8 year, 40-50 million dollar plan approved by the board in 2022. We went from sensible to grandiose.

    That's why the current SAC efforts are truly a throwback to years past. If you are paying close attention, the details, data and open free flow of conversation is remarkable. Yes there are bias, and yes they come through. The best aspect is how reality at some point settles in and sound decisions will be made. It's slow and cumbersome and 100% more effective than a small group of board members just telling the community what's best for us. Process works.
     
  3. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member


    The following numbers are from a 2021 report:

    THE AVERAGE COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION COSTS PER SQUARE FOOT
    BUILDING TYPE COST PER SQUARE FOOT
    Single story office $289-$437
    Mid-Rise Office $330-$870
    High-rise Office $430-$1001
    Government administrative buildings $426-$844
    Museum/ Performing arts $650-$1272
    Medical Office Buildings $451-$1018
    Recreation/ Gymnasiums $347-$683

     
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  4. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    Yes, process is important, Bill. When I was on a Board hiring a new CEO of an entity greater in scope than RCSC, we asked each interviewee the question, "Which is most important? Process of product?" One individual responded, "While process is important, product is more so since that is what we measure." His answer to that question was key to him being hired. Regarding MV, Lakeview, a Performing Arts Center, or anything else, what is it that we are going to measure? How much is cost? How often is it used? How many Members take advantage of the facility? I don't know but perhaps we should think about it. How will we know if we were successful in our decision?
     
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  5. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Interesting opposing opinions! Bill says "process" and Janet says "product"?

    I'm sure an argument can be made for the importance of both at the same time because you can't have a legitimate product unless you went thru a legitimate process!

    You can't just shift dollars around to make one project/product look magnificent while leaving other products left in disrepair! And although a beautiful Taj Mahal recreation center is a wonderful "product", was the process to fund it above board or was it just another instance of robbing Peter to pay Paul? And although it may look wonderful in a real estate brochure was the opulence worth the expense?

    I think by now you all know where I stand and that's the fact that I'm not willing to break the bank just so everybody is made happy getting the things they want.

    I've continually stated that I believe Sun City is bloated and before another dollar is spent on another recreation center, or before they decide to raise our assessment or PIF fund again, somebody (the board and management) needs to take a very deep dive into exactly what our current costs are, what our needs are dollar wise to support the amenities we already have, how many of our venues are duplicated and by how many times throughout our 8 recreation centers, and of course the utilization numbers on those venues.

    Bill asked, do we need 4 mini-golf courses? The same can be asked, do we need 8 rec centers, or 8 golf courses, or 5 lawn bowling courts, 2 bowling alleys, etc.

    I'm not looking to deprive anybody of anything, I'm only trying to make sure that the things we do have are efficiently run and sufficiently utilized and maintained and are actually needed,...not just simply wanted.

    Everything comes at a cost and most of us are on fixed incomes while the cost of everything else around us keeps going up! And that includes the cost to maintain, staff and cover utility costs at each of our rec centers.

    Along with our water and electrical utility rates increasing, an Arizona minimum wage increase will be on the ballot in 2024 to raise it to $18 hour!
     
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  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I would agree with Tom regarding "process" versus "product." It isn't one or the other, the process in most respects does determine the product. The problem with assessing the product is often an exercise in futility. The problem with assessing the process is it is most often a long term proposition. Especially in non-profit organizations with a long standing history, often they survive in spite of themselves.

    Let's look at Sun City. DEVCO left them everything except the Lakes club. The golf courses cost $10 and a cup of coffee while the amenities (rec centers) were given to them, no charge. The Sun Bowl was sold to them for next to nothing in 1981 with a trial period to return it to DEVCO if it turned out to be a bad deal. When the RCSC took the reigns in 1979, the documents were in place, the mechanisms to pay for everything was there.

    The 80's were turbulent because there were two factions; one who wanted everything to stay the same (including costs) and the other who understood the importance to evolve. It was an ugly battle with those who knew DEVCO had been subsidizing the community above and beyond what we were paying won out. Costs continued to rise and in 1999 the board, recognizing the amenities were aging, passed the PIF. It was our saving grace.

    We remained true to our historical roots, trusting the process of self-governance and a belief that the membership cared enough to put their hands up and be involved. That was until the decision was made to hire a new GM in 2006 and give her more authority. Certainly way more than any GM in our past 45 plus years.

    Which is where our discussion over "process" really starts. I would guess if you interviewed the former, former general manager and a good number of the board members elected during her 17 years, they all would tell you there was a process. One that was in fact more fluid, more flexible, more efficient and more effective. I wouldn't argue the first three, it's the last one, the one where the product is measured where it all breaks down. As we will all see in the coming months.

    We fell into the trap of embracing the mantra; "cheaper is better." We heard it repeatedly from the stage and read it in written form. And, on its face it appeared to be working. The truth of the matter is, lipstick on a pig is still just lipstick. Running an organization like the RCSC is a full time job and then some. It becomes even more daunting when a small number of board members and the GM make every decision. Let me shout that: EVERY DECISION.

    Eliminating the membership not only from the decision making, but also from even having a voice really does streamline the process. Fast and fluid and it damned well better be right...because ultimately those wrong choices become glaring hot spots like we are dealing with now. The ugly part from my perspective is the board was complicit in shutting down the members voices. I know, it was done under the guise of their fiduciary obligation to the organization; but that's pure crap.

    They bought into the process the GM was selling. If they didn't have to listen to the membership, they could just do as they pleased. Once the safeguards were gone from the documents there was no ability for members to push back. Add in the sales pitch to just stay home and have fun and one quickly comes to understand how we got here. And once the ugliness starts to roll out, there will be a fair amount of angst.

    I guess the good news is, we are still the cheapest and with the most amenities. The bad news is, the bills are coming due. Process matters and all too often dictate outcomes.
     
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  7. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Let's talk about MV. The Taj Mahal is gone. That said, the center is in desperate need of attention. When i was elected to the board in 2012 we toured it and it was a dump back then. They have done virtually no preemptive maintenance and let it deteriorate even more since then. Ignoring it is not feasible. Shutting it down would be a mistake. The question, in my mind becomes how much should we be spending to make it suitable for the needs of the members who use it? Answer that question first.

    Added to the discussion is the question of a theater? It's been a long argued topic and one that is steeped in a fear/concern the Players will treat it as their dedicated space. It cannot nor should it be ever considered that. For the community to derive maximum value (return on investment), it need serve multiple purposes. Movies and performances need by billed and booked on a regular basis. That's why it makes more sense at Lakeview.

    That said, Lakeview is at best case scenario 4-5 years down the road. I know that sounds dumb, but it's just mathematics. Between existing PIF projects coupled with golf course conversions to desert landscaping we won't have the money (in hand) to do the Lakeview project until at least 2028 or 2029. Which actually is beneficial because, to Tom's point, by then we should have a better understanding of the communities needs. Especially if we can begin to get our technology squared away and actually gather sound utilization numbers.

    When we do Lakeview, everything there (and across the community) should be evaluated. EVERYTHING. Centers cannot be expected to meet every need of every member. Telling a member they'll have to drive a mile or two isn't being mean, it's being realistic. Long term strategic planning has been treated like a disease when in reality it should be a way of life. Hopefully the next GM understands that better than the previous two.
     
  8. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And the other bad news is the community doesn't really know or care why, as long as they don't shut down MY Club!

    I would like to see the RCSC hold a series of meetings with not just graphs, numbers, and reports but perhaps more of a pictorial representation flow chart showing the various buckets of dollars and where those dollars are directed to go. They need to be shown that "x" amount of dollars are needed for maintenance but perhaps only "y" amount of dollars are available!

    Everything needs to add-up and not just keep shifting the same dollars around to justify the expense. They talk about a surplus of "carry-forward" dollars in one breath then tell us some of those same dollars will be used in the following year for maintenance or capitol improvements! So which is it?

    They talk about transparency but make things so confusing you still can't understand where all the dollars are going or how much is in excess?

    KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid! Just show us how much we actually have in each bucket, and show us the things and costs of what needs to be done with that bucket of dollars.

    I think once the word gets out that those types of meetings will be offered, more Members will begin to show-up and take an interest to where their dollars are being spent. If they justify an increase in the annual assessment or PIF, then so be it. But allow us to see and understand the justification.
     
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  9. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    I only brought up the "process" vs "product" issue as food for thought, not to start an argument. Both are important. When RCSC develops a long range plan, it should make the goals measurable with shorter term checkpoints that should also be measurable. Not that difficult to do! KISS!
     
  10. BruceW

    BruceW Active Member

    Ah yes, long range plans, process, measurable goals, work breakdown structure, checkpoints, release gates… probably plenty of us retired project managers in sun city.
    Speaking for myself… when driving a project the hardest part was to get out of my own way. Harder to do for some than others.
     
  11. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Well said B and even worse is when you have no measurable's, you simply free fall and hope it all works out. Foolishness at it finest.
     
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  12. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And that's what I'm kinda talking about BruceW; a budget based PERT Chart. Start out with the total bucket of available dollars then split that off to individual lines of buckets, (tasks), for PIF projects, capitol improvements, maintenance, salaries, utilities, etc.

    As you progress thru each line of tasks you keep on subtracting the allotted dollars used for that task or add into the next box any cost savings until you come to the end of each line. When you reach the end, are you in the RED or in the BLACK? Think of the dollars as you would dates used in a GANTT Chart. If you miss your completion date on one task it could extend the required time on the whole project!

    I think something visual like that is much more understandable to the Members than simply looking at a spread sheet?
     
  13. BruceW

    BruceW Active Member

    Spreadsheets are great for the person that built it, but can be confusing to folks not living it daily.
    I recall one project where I took the WBS fishbone chart and put the cost for each task on the chart. The director looked at it and right away knew what we could do now and what we had to put off for another project.
    Yikes! This discussion is giving me flashbacks! HAHAHA
     
  14. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    The longer i kick around the community, the more i come to understand how many knowledgeable people live here. To John Meeker's credit, he grasp that early on and never hesitated to trusting members to be involved. Pushing them away was never an option, he knew at some point in time, DEVCO would leave and the membership would have to run it. I've even argued it was one of the reasons he pushed (subtly) for incorporation. It was a daunting task and he knew it.

    Here's my problem, all too often we talk over people's heads. I know, i do it from time to time and i try and be conscious of it. We trained the staff at the local union to write at a grade 6 level. I learned long ago the importance of the listener/reader knowing/understanding what i was trying to say. Impressing anyone with your genius is meaningless if they have no idea what is being said to them.

    When it comes to finances, it's even more challenging. I know a couple of you have mentioned KISS and even that is difficult when you start using charts (that are too complicated) and graphs that are hard to follow. It can be done, and in the past month or two, the new interim GM has drawn a much more clear financial picture. It can be better and i suspect over time it will become even more clear.

    I know it is over-simplifying to say that communication is the key, but it truly is. In the last two months since there has been a change in the GM position, i am watching employees take on a greater role in both clarity and explaining what is going on. It's refreshing to see and anything any of us can do to grow the circle is an exercise that we all will benefit from.
     
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  15. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    I remember working in the adult literacy field in the 1990's. We were told that the front pages of newspapers were written at a 7th grade reading level, the opinion pages at the 11th grade reading level, and the sports page at the 4th grade reading level. Not sure if it is true or not, then or now!
     
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  16. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    So what you are saying is sports guys are basically dummies? Just kidding. I've written before i took a quarter of college and dropped out, realizing i could drink as much at home as i could while in school and it was a lot cheaper. The good news is once i sobered up and got involved in my work for the local union, i took as many classes for adult learners as i could. A couple of things that stood out to me were: i took classes that were of interest to me and quickly came to understand adult education was more often about connecting the dots than shoving information down students throats.

    It kind of become my mantra when working with and for people (members). Once a person understands something, what they are doing (or trying to do), is more often a better fit. The danger is Sun City is like most other places, we assume people/members get it. I learned quickly that Sun City is different from where we came from. Once i realized that, i could get my head around the importance of educating those moving/owning here how it works.

    There was virtually no effort to help new buyers understand that. Hell, we told them to just stay home and have fun. Of course if your goal was to control every decision, then it was the perfect tact to get to and end game where leadership decided everything for us. Like i say, look at where we are and tell me if it made sense?

    Some folks got excited when the Sun City Advocates was created. We had three components with a single goal. Communicate, Educate and Participate. All of our efforts was to elect candidates over a two year period who believed Sun City was created by and for the members. It was successful and now as we move to the next phase, the RCSC need embrace a similar mindset...Communicate, Educate and Participate.

    It's simply a process that we know works.
     
  17. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    the RCSC need (to) embrace a similar mindset...Communicate, Educate and Participate.
    I’ve observed management, now unchained, making a concerted effort to do just that!
     
  18. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I would agree wholeheartedly EO. This past month has been like the wraps have been taken off and those in positions where communication matters have been allowed to bloom. Chatting with my old friend Ben yesterday and we were both stunned by the transition. Hire good people and then allow them to do their thing. Amazing what happens when you do that.
     
  19. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Rigorous freaking honesty. It was a phrase that was repeated to me often in both treatment and Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). It was prominently featured in the Big Book. The contention was the ability to recover only came when one was absolutely honest with one's self. Tough nut for those of us who spent our lives lying about who and what we were.

    I quickly came to understand recovery was more about how we lived our lives than whether we grabbed the bottle. Don't get wrong, it all starts with keeping the bottle out of our hands, but after that the question becomes how do we live our lives? That part has nothing to do with being a drunk, but everything to do with how we choose to live. Rigorous honesty can be a real ball buster. It means taking a good look in the mirror and being able to admit when we are wrong.

    I've made hundreds, maybe thousands of mistakes along the way. The more we do, the more we error. The smart ones learn from those mistakes, the dumb ones keep repeating them. The really dishonest ones, deny they exist and blame others. It's simply the life lesson i learned along the way and paid for my mistakes along the way. It's also helped shape me and my philosophy and what i believe works.

    This thread started with what? A contention the process works. I said those very words yesterday, and i am repeating them here. The process works. When we involve and engage people (in this case, members of the RCSC) openly and honestly, they respond. It isn't rocket science, it's human nature. People want to care, but if you push them away and tell them not to...the question becomes, "why should they?"

    For the past 15 years, more actually, i've sat either on the stage as a member of the RCSC board, or in the audience and listened to this statement read over and over and over again: "The Recreation Centers if of Sun City,Inc. (RCSC) has ended (fill in any date you want), within it's operating and capital budget year to date. All divisions have met or exceeded their net operating budget projections with total operating income (fill in any huge amount; though there were rare occasions where projections weren't met and usually we blamed the weather). It goes on with rosy pictures of the RCSC kicking ass over and over because we were doing so well.

    I've stated clearly, i'm no numbers guru. If i study a budget hard and long enough i can sort through it. I created budgets (in concert with experts) when i ran our local union and i've been hands on in the 4 or 5 organizations i've been involved with since moving here. Every one of those used what is called in the business "balanced budgets." Cash in for the year, typically equaled cash out at the end of the year. Yes there were at times anomalies, but for those most part we wanted to try and be as exact as we could.

    When i was elected to the RCSC board i started paying closer attention to the budgeting process. I was stunned as i had never seen anything like it. The general manager prepared a budget that had virtually no sense of reality. Almost every number projected was soft and insured we could stand and tell the members how good we were doing at the end of every month. I was so shocked i went in the GM's office and told her straight away, "i've never seen budgets done this way."

    I won't waste my time or yours telling you her response, but i concluded with as long as we were running smoothly i would/could live with it. I was like most board members along the way; as long as we kept costs down everything was good. It was one of my biggest mistakes in the 3 years i served on the board; i should have been more vocal, more aggressive in better accounting procedures. I knew better.

    I've also came to understand the evolution with even less control of what was going on became standard operating procedure (SOP). As committees were neutered even more, it was a one person show. The checks and balances built into our documents were dismantled and we were in a literal free-fall. Who knew? Who cared? Because every month we heard the same thing in the general managers reports: The RCSC was operating "perfectly."

    The first time we realized there may be a problem was when we had the informational session in 2022 and we were treated to the fact our technology was non-existent. Of course it all was meaningless because we were told point blank it was "no one's fault." Really? Rigorous honesty eh?

    Look, i'm not looking for scapegoats or laying blame. What i do expect is spelling out problems so the members can help find real life workable solutions. We learned how well it worked by addressing the issues of Viewpoint lake by engaging the home owners. We are seeing up close and personal by stopping the Mountain View fiasco, and is now moving forward with realistic solutions in an open and transparent process.

    The point here is simple: The process works, just trust it with absolute and total honesty.



     
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  20. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    No need to name names. I think your explanation of how and who personally managed the budget over the last several years speaks for itself?

    The curtain has been pulled on the Great and Powerful Oz!
     
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