Are Group Homes Good For Sun City's Future?

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Apr 1, 2023.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Some of you know i am one of the administrators of a Facebook group called Sun City Chat Arizona. If you've been following it, you know the site erupted with comments this week as a home on View Point lake is now listed, and they are trying to sell it as a "group home." They spent a fortune on the remodel by adding tons of square footage with heavy concentration on more bedrooms and bathrooms. Oh yea, they want a million dollars for it.

    This isn't the first. nor will it be the last. I took the liberty of posting the section in SCHOA's CC&R's relative to single family dwellings and not being able to run a business from them. The language is clear and unambiguous and other than as a rental unit or having no obvious signs of it being a business, it is precluded from being used as one. It's not really debatable.

    Now we come to find out, the guy that bought it and flipped it may have applied for a county permit for it to become a "group home" capable of housing up to 10 people (2 per bedroom). Others have chimed in about their being group homes across from their homes in Sun City.

    It gets worse, because some Chat members have contacted SCHOA and have been told there is nothing they can do about it. I was stunned and sent an email to their executive director, Lisa Grey. asking if that was truly SCHOA's position. She responded that they have reached out to their attorney and are awaiting an official statement/reply.

    The consensus opinion is overwhelming; this is not a good thing for Sun City or our future. We know there has been some one-off allowances by the County to override SCHOA's ability to remove underage residents and grant them variances to remain here. The reality is, that has had virtually no long term impact on the community, nor will it. The age overlay states there has to be a minimum of 80% of the homes with a person 55 and older living there. We are currently at 95%.

    This issue is far more troubling. The long term affect of the County granting permits for "group homes" in Sun City can be devastating. We already know the RCSC membership is down, due primarily to the huge number of rental properties that exist. The revenue hasn't been affected because many of the rental units have those living here buying privilege cards. The RCSC also gets the lot assessment from every home owner, whether they live there or not. Some call it double dipping, but this discussion has little to do with RCSC revenue.

    There are any number of implications from the county showing blatant disregard for our CC&R's. If single family dwellings can be converted to commercial operations, why stop at group homes? If they can simply wave their magic wand and strip Sun City's ability to have community standards (that have been in place for 60 years), where does it end?

    Can "group homes" house more than the elderly? As long as one of the 6-10 residents are 55, can the others come with their alcohol and drug problems and be of any age? Are we simply sending the message that a single family home that would normally sell for 300k to 400k is suddenly worth 500k as a for-profit business? I hate the term slippery slope, but in this case it may well be applicable. Where's the red line and once it has been crossed, how do we ever go back?

    Beyond that, there's a deeper social issue at stake here. Society's evolution has changed the rules of the game. There's no value or upside in blaming people or even trying to sort it out. The important aspect is to be aware of the potential impact to Sun City as a community and how it affects our future and what we can do collectively to try and stop it.

    Stay tuned, because in my next post we'll dive into the nuances that made Sun City so special, and so unique, and how as we have "evolved" we have lost some of those traits and what i have long called "the value and the values of Sun City." It doesn't bode well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2023
  2. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your analysis and leadership on this, Bill. As stated, there is definitely a lot of social media discussion. Hopefully, SCHOA's legal counsel will see the need to take action on this. If not, what keeps SC from just becoming a hodge podge of whatever Maricopa County thinks is OK. It appears they can interpret our CC&Rs however they want or just ignor them - without resistance. Enough already.
     
  3. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    We know that some in the federal government are pushing to pass legislation to force low income housing into ALL communities! Once that is allowed then all bets are off! Say "Good-Bye" to a "City of Volunteers" and "Hello" to a "City of Dependents."

    We already have several organizations that constantly need support to help sustain a life style to those among us who have outlived our savings. Just imagine the strain on those organizations if we open-up the Welcome Wagon of free stuff?

    I'm all for helping those in need, but not for helping those who refuse to help themselves!
     
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  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Excuse my ramblings, but if you stay with it, I think you will see how the pieces fit together. You'll see my concerns over the community we love and how it has eroded; and not by accident.

    I had a friend, Art Shostak, who wrote a book called Viable Utopian Ideas: Shaping A Better World. While it was pretty out there, i felt he should have included Sun City Arizona in the book. From the day we first found Sun City, i have always marveled at the simplistic concept of a community without hierarchy and where we governed ourselves. It struck me there should have been a chapter dedicated to such a unique concept.

    Coincidentally, another book was released by Andrew Blechman shortly thereafter called Leisureville. It was primarily about how God-awful life in the Villages of Florida was, but he managed to dedicate a chapter to how pitifully Sun City AZ had aged. He did a book tour and the AZ Republic featured him and his Sun City comments where he and i got into a heated discussion online. I told him he didn't know what he was talking about. He finally, after several back and forth exchanges, said quite apologetically in a private email, "hey kid, i'm just trying to sell the book."

    In the early years of us moving here (2003), i was fixated on telling the Sun City story. From the 55 Places website (where they reviewed senior communities), to newspaper interviews and all points in between i was usually arguing with those who routinely ripped us. The common theme was a bunch of selfish old people who were waiting to die and angry at the world. By 2010 i was immersed in our history and many of the roles each of the various organizations filled in a community without a local government.

    We were truly unique and other than Sun City West virtually all of the age restricted communities that came along after us, had become wholly different. I liked to call them single entity governed communities where there was one organization that ran the rec centers. Worse yet, many like Sun City Grand, were part of a municipality with all the trappings and related taxes that went along with it.

    Basically the argument was because we weren't part of local school district, we were greedy. Truth was the Peoria school district in the early 70's was desperate for taxes to build the growing demand for schools and looked at Sun City as the cash cow. After several failed school bond votes the county commissioners found a way around it by inviting us to leave the district; and we did, gladly.

    The other bit of history that is so important is the 35 year battle for Sun City to become incorporated. From 1961-1995, the powers that be in Sun City argued we needed to become a city; complete with mayor, city hall, councilmen, police department and the rest of never ending bureaucracies that came along with it. The argument was that state revenue sharing would pay for everything and more. The reality was, and still is, eventually the costs supersede whatever they gave you back and the only way to balance the burgeoning city budgets was through increasing taxes.

    Sun City residents fought it every step of the way. They loved the idea they had moved to a community unlike the one they came from. They loved their obligation for ownership and responsibilities. They worked tirelessly to create a community where as owner/members they controlled their own destiny. They loved the fact their taxes were low and the cost was as simple as donating their time and expertise to keep it that way.

    It was a community built from the hard scrabble of cotton fields and orange groves. It was built by trial and error, and if there was a misstep, they changed direction and fixed it. They didn't whine about it, they just rolled up their sleeves and did it. By the time DEVCO left in 1979, the community's roots were deep and well founded and grounded in a sense of community. Yes there were arguments and fights over direction, but they always found a way.

    The Greatest Generation were accustomed to fighting for what they believed in. The were proud of the community they built and were even more intent on insuring it stay the course and stand on their own. Then, as life often does, Sun City was thrown a curve ball, the boomer population came of age. These brash new retirees came with their own points of view and visions and expectations.

    We'll explore that and more in the next post.
     
  5. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I've been itching to get my hands around these finishing thoughts because the setup was so long and the payoff will be so fulfilling. There's nothing much here i haven't written or said before other than how this whole "group home" dynamic will be have such a dramatic impact on the community (all of us). It's far from the only reason how and why we got here, but it clearly will push us further off the cliff and why SCHOA needs to find a strategy to stop or reverse the path we are on.

    Let's get this out there: It's not the boomers fault Sun City has evolved; it is however the circumstances that unfolded around and to them that opened the door for us to be where we are today. Our society, our cultural attitudes, the social contract with workers and perhaps more-so than anything else, technology has created this phenomenon that created something wholly different from our parents.

    Did you know, Del Webb was a card-carrying union carpenter? First as a tradesman and ultimately as a lifetime honorary member of the organization. Del watched the passage of Taft Hartley in 1948, which allowed employers and unions to negotiate health care and more importantly defined benefit pension plans, and to take write-offs for them. It was the game changer and Webb understood pension plans along with social security would take retirees out of poverty and have them looking for something other than the proverbial rocking chair.

    It was one of the reasons why Sun City opened and why it was so successful. Retirees suddenly had disposable income and were itching for that "new active way of life." Webb tapped into it by providing a low cost community complete with amenities. That coupled with a great climate and affordable housing, sales were stunning. Adding to the mix was the fact that the "greatest generation" were joiners, doers and savers, it was the perfect marriage between needs and wants coupled with affordability.

    It looked like the "community that changed the nation" would roll on forever. Then a not so funny thing happened. The 80's hit, high inflation slowed sales and employers found that having employees for 30 years and golden watches at retirement had become a liability, not an asset. Defined pension plans were swapped out with defined contribution plans. It simply meant workers needed to fund their own retirement plans, the employers no longer wanted the liability.

    The greed of the 80's and 90's resulted in massive turnover in boomers as layoffs resulted in multiple career changes. The instability of losing their jobs resulted in even the most ardent saver having to cash in their 401K's as they were searching and scratching for their next place of employment. The stability their parents enjoyed was lost. It wasn't all bad news though because with technology becoming a thing, new career paths were opened, and some of those jobs payed well. Adding to it was the rise of the entrepreneur, realizing they wanted more than a 40 hour a week job with a good retirement package. There were winners and losers.

    Boomers hit retirement age in the early 2000's. The often cited 10,000 boomers a day reaching retirement age was the mantra and bode well for communities like Sun City. They were right, as we have averaged between 1500 and 2000 home sales per year since boomers started to retire. Those are staggering figures, but somewhat misleading. Because added to that mix was the whole growth of the flipper industry and the other oddity; Some boomers came with a lot of savings and they started buying up Sun City property's like they were playing that old board game, Monopoly.

    In 2009/10, the housing market crash hit. Prices took a nosedive and that coupled with interest rates at banks plummeting created the perfect storm. The greatest generation loved those 7-10% returns on investments. Boomers never were the joiners on the level of their parents, and they always were noted for their lack of trust issues with organizations and the institutions their parents loved and believed in.

    Literally after the housing market crash hit, as we were coming out of it, 2 bed, 2 bath homes in the 1600 square foot range sold for under 100k. Three bedroom, 2 bath Stanford's with 1800 plus square foot homes could be purchased for a little over 100k. Modest garden court apartments in Phase 1 were bargain basement priced, hoovering around 30k. Those single family homes today range from 300 to 5ook and the small attached homes are all 200k and more. Hell, if i have had a million dollars in the bank back then, i would have bought 5 of them myself. I didn't and haven't.

    The housing market crash, coupled with the loss of defined benefit pension plans had a couple of even more far reaching affects. Those moving to Sun City were working later in life. It's a trend we know will follow the next home buyers/retirees, Generation X. Many of them freely admit, they may never retire. It's one thing to work because you enjoy it and another to do it to be able to pay the bills. To add to their misery, the concept of home ownership has changed. The greatest generation lived for the idea of having your own home; and in some cases, two were even better. One in Sun City and one back where they grew up and raised their families.

    I've been stunned over the past 10 years as article after article have talked about how boomers have sold their homes, taken their nest egg from it and now are more than contented to rent and not own. It was one of the reasons year round rental units have become so popular. Not only popular, but rent from them has sky rocketed. Turns out those owning 5 or 10 homes in Sun City were way better off with rental units than getting the crappy 1% return on investment from the local banks.

    Then the other phenomenon hit, Airbnb and Verbo type arrangements exploded on the scene and short term rentals changed the game even more. Large investors started buying properties and listing them for ridiculously high rates and further drove up seasonal and year round rates. I've heard of Sun City short term rentals going for $3000-$4000 a month. I had always anticipated those buying numerous Sun City properties to cash them out when home prices peaked, but they simply couldn't afford to, they were making too much money as rentals.

    It's the reason we currently have fewer RCSC members than years gone by. There's far less individuals owning their own homes. While it's been a boon for the RCSC financially, it's created a less than perfect setting to build a sense of community. Nope, not ripping renters, many of them enjoy all Sun City has to offer. There's just a difference between those who buy and live here compared to those who are here as long as they can find a rental unit they can afford.

    We know Sun City was built around an ownership mentality and the responsibility that came with it. We haven't been able to stop the challenge with too many rentals and has in fact added to our inability to restore any real sense of community (that's another topic for another day). It's an uphill struggle and always will be. We have a limited number of rooftops (27,500) and a great start would be to know how many of them are rental units. Think of it this way; 27,000 rooftops, 32,500 members. 1.5 members per household (which is close to the average) would give you the near on 40,00o RCSC members we used to have. Clearly the dynamic has changed.

    Now, here's the rub: Once the door is kicked open for "group homes" in a senior community like Sun City, how many does it take to further erode that sense of community? These aren't some altruistic groups who are looking out for the health and welfare of seniors needing a place to live. These are builders, developers, flippers and realtors looking to make the most money they can off of a listing or home conversion. That 3 bedroom Standford can be bought for $350 to $400k, two bedrooms two baths added on to the back of the house for 100k and suddenly you have a 5 bedroom, 4 bathroom home suitable for a group home where the new owner buyer can stack 10 seniors, 2 per bedroom for a huge guaranteed return on investment.

    Ask yourself this: What the hell does that do for the community? What the hell does it do to the institutions that have been the key to running the community (SCHOA and the RCSC)? Does it undermine how those of us living here have viewed them and the reasons why we bought into an "active new way of life?" The only ones arguing for this are the ones who want to get rich off the concept or the handful who think these kinds of chord-wood stacking settings are somehow doing God's work. They're not, they simply are trying to make the most money they can. It's nothing but a business opportunity in a home built and zoned as a single family residence.

    There are solutions beyond the doom and gloom. We'll explore those next time because what we know from Sun City's history is, there are always answers. What we also know is those of us living here have to go flesh them out. If we leave it to the county, we'll simply be screwed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2023
  6. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    And this, my friend, needs to be shared far and wide. SC is ripe for the next phase of exploitation!!!! This is where RCSC AND SCHOA must work together for the good of the whole. Communication and education is a two way street.
     
  7. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    I believe someone mentioned it earlier; perhaps we need to start attending SCHOA meetings?
     
  8. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Okay, so the big question is, do the Sun City CC&R's have any real meaning or can Fair Housing and ADA laws simply declare them void?

    Not sure how housing 10 people who are not family members fits into these CC&R's, and is the owner of the home going to live there (see below in RED)

    Here's what the CC&R's say about:

    Single Family Dwellings
    • No dwelling shall be used except as a single family dwelling.
    Commercial Use Restrictions

    All residential units shall be used, improved and devoted exclusively to residential use by a single family.

    – No trade or business may be conducted on any lot, in or from any residential unit, except that an Owner or other resident of a residential unit may conduct business activities within a residential unit so long as

    (i) the existence or operation of the business activity is not apparent or detectable by sight, sound, or smell from outside the residential unit.

    (ii) the business activity conforms to all applicable laws and zoning ordinances or requirements

    (iii) the business activity does not involve persons coming into the lot or door to door solicitation of Owners or other residents in the community,

    (iv) the business activity is consistent with the residential character of the community and does not constitute a nuisance or a hazardous or offensive use that would threaten security of other residents in the community;

    (v) the business actually conducted on a lot or from a residential unit does not involve any employees except family members living in the residential unit. The terms “business” and “trade” as used in this section shall be construed to have ordinary, generally accepted meanings and shall include, without limitation, any occupation, work or activity undertaken on an ongoing basis which involves the provision of goods and services to persons other than the provider’s family and for which the provider receives a fee, compensation or other form of consideration regardless of whether

    (a) such activity is engaged in full or part time

    (b) such activity is intended to or does generate a profit; or

    (c) a license is required for such activity. The sale or lease of a residential unit by the Owner shall not be considered a trade or business within the meaning of this section.


    I think SCHOA has some explaining to do if they're not fighting this?
     
  9. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    You're right, FYI. It's time members show up at a meeting and seek answers!
     
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  10. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    So I guess our CC&R's aren't really worth the paper they're written on?
     
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  11. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    Lets take Royal Oaks for just one example (but there are at least a dozen varied types of facilities through Sun City upon searching). There are numerous non-profit or for-profit commercial-like phased housing options. Large multi-unit facilities, some covering multiple blocks, that we can all see as established businesses, serving the various stages of aging and disability.

    However, I don't believe using a single family home in the middle of well established single family neighborhoods would require either the county or SCHOA to comply with federal laws protecting the elderly or disabled. Granted, I'm not a lawyer, but it doesn't appear Sun City has precluded the establishment of such qualified housing within the bounds of SC. Why start allowing the conversion of homes, clearly intended for couples?
     
  12. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    And why aren't those living in the neighborhood notified and asked whether or not they approve the zoning variance?

    Seems everybody just does what they want, rules, regulations or CC&R's be damned!
     
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  13. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    Looks like the rules/law only requires notification for drug/alcohol rehab facility.

    Single family residential needs protection. This isn't anti-disability or fair housing. There are zoning laws that can address that. Spot zoning should not be allowed to disrupt neighborhoods.
     
  14. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I know i've been fairly quiet once i got the topic off the ground. There are solutions, but they are steeped in our history of activism and ownership. Had it not been for a Sun City resident name of Betty Pearlman, Sun City may well have gone the way of Youngtown. Neither our deed restrictions nor CC&R's had language protecting our age overlay. It wasn't until 1983 when it became law and two communities in the East Valley collected signatures and added it to their documents. Betty led the charge in spite of SCHOA being ambivalent initially. She literally started the collection process with a handful of volunteers and the HOA decided they best get involved. By the time it was done, more than 78% pf the community had signed the petition.

    I'm not going to bore with much other than after 20 years of kicking and screaming, i'm growing weary of the fight. Don't get me wrong, i haven't quit, but others need to pick up the slack. If i could take you back to 2006 and 07 and let you watch what it took to rebuild SCHOA from the ground up, you'd be astounded. There was a small core group of us who started the ball rolling and mercifully lots of residents joined the fray. They knew the organization was too important to let it languish in laziness and despair. It was that bad.

    Funny thing is, we had virtually no financial resources to do what needed be done. SCHOA's membership was in the toilet and their bank balances proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they were indeed a non-profit. Every step of the way, we looked for cost effective ways to accomplish the goals we set. It wasn't until years later they figured out a funding mechanism that has left them in good standing.

    I would hope this fight isn't one they view as too big. I think the county overstepped their bounds. I would be curious to know where the county commissioners or staff who overrode our CC&R's live? Wouldn't it be delightful to buy the house next door to them and turn it into a "Group Home?" But alas, the communities they reside in most likely have rules against that happening, or the cost to buy they homes simply put it beyond reach.

    While that's off the chart nuts to even suggest, my old labor union mindset kicks in and starts looking beyond the normal whining about it and actually looking at what can be done and in my opinion, must be done. Group homes dotting the Sun City landscape coupled with the inordinate number of rental units has a near on catastrophic outcome as we are struggling to rebuild that sense of community. I know it sounds like hyperbole, it's not.

    I know there's lots of angst and negative comments about rental units and renters. It would be a great starting point to know exactly how many there are and how many of them have renters that purchase a privilege card? Someone simply looking for a place to live is wholly different than someone looking to take part in all Sun City has to offer. You cannot fix anything unless or until you know what you are up against.

    It's always been that simple for me.

    PS. Let me be very clear, the changes made regarding rentals has made money for the RCSC above and beyond what a normal home sale to someone who would live here would do. Say a RCSC member owned 10 homes, 9 they rent out, they get 1 membership but pay fees on each home. If the renter wants to use the amenities, they have to buy a privilege card. If they don't, there's one less member using the amenity package. And, that says nothing about the PIF collected at each point of sale. You have to ask yourself...do they even care as long as they are getting the revenue?
     
  15. Linda McIntyre

    Linda McIntyre Well-Known Member

    Bill, it is pretty shocking to me that the County would write a regulation/policy allowing group homes without notice to surrounding properties. It goes against any normal zoning use change practice.
     
  16. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    It does indeed and someone needs to be pounding on some doors for explanations.
     
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  17. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    UPDATE: Million dollar listing now marketed ONLY as Assisted Living

    This morning, I happened to drive by the million dollar home at 13618 N 103rd that’s been for sale as residential OR Assisted Living.
    • Realtor signage GONE.
    • Maricopa County Tax Assessor has the same deed and owners on file.
    • Google search has property no longer for sale!
    • In realtor property history: 6/30/2023 Listing Removed!
    • LoopNet has it:
    Lakeside Assisted Living 3,750 SF Health Care Building Offered at $1,100,000 in Sun City, AZ

    INVESTMENT HIGHLIGHTS
    • IN THE HEART OF 50,000 SENIOR 55 PLUS RESIDENTS IN SUN CITY
    • DESIGNED FOR ASSISTED LIVING
    • BRAND NEW REMODEL

    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
    Rare Lake front, Brand new 10 bed Assisted Living Group Home in Sun City just received Maricopa County Planning Dept. zoning approval, Near Banner Hospital, Total renovation Five large bedrooms with Six baths 3,750 s.f. with staff room, all floors are Carrera white Porcelain, roll in shower, fire sprinkler system, 2 car garage and onsite parking for an additional 6-8 cars, New kitchen with walk in pantry, beautiful covered patio, and boat dock

    PROPERTY FACTS
    • Price $1,100,000
    • Price Per Bed $110,000
    • Sale Type Owner User
    • Property Type Health Care
    • Property Subtype Assisted Living
    • Building Class B

    MORE:
    https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/13618-N-103rd-Ave-Sun-City-AZ/27955027/
     
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  18. Janet Curry

    Janet Curry Well-Known Member

    It appears that the property was remodeled specifically for an assisted living facility. I can imagine the neighbors are disappointed. There is another home on the other side of Viewpoint Lake on Buccaneer that is being remodeled. The asking price is just under a million $. Perhaps the same contractor. Looks quite the same as the one on 103rd. Does anyone know the status of that one?
     
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  19. Tom McClain

    Tom McClain Member

    We have one over here at the NW corner of Boswell and Cameo. 9 bedroom with hospital furniture. Totally remodeled for assisted living. But, there seems to be no interest in buying it or occupying it. It sits empty.
     
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  20. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    My guess is the lake properties are being put on hold till the lake is filled and back in service come Oct.
     
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