Comments on Revised Bylaws, Part 4 of 4

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by FYI, Sep 27, 2022.

  1. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    ARTICLE IX – INITIATIVE, REFERENDUM AND RECALL PETITIONS

    I think the entire petition process is nothing more than one more control over the Members. It can also be a conflict of interest for those deciding whether or not to authorize a petition. The only involvement Management should have is to document and number the pro-forma petition regardless of the subject matter. The validity of the issue in question will be determined if the petitioner can succeed in getting 10% of the community to sign the petition in agreement. It is nice to see that signatures can now be collected on RCSC property. That was a no-brainer which removed a double-standard!

    Closing comments.

    In addition to the bylaws, the board really needs to start documenting Special Rules of Order. These are rules that will take precedence over RONR. If you don’t like a current rule stated in RONR you simply establish the new rule, vote and document what the new rule would be. Examples of special rules of order would be to establish the organization's own order of business, or a rule relating to the length and number of times a member can speak in debate. If an existing rule is simply suspended, it is only suspended for that one particular motion or meeting unless a special rule of order was established and documented so that the new rule will stay in effect for all future meetings.

    It’s noted that on occasion the unofficial Agenda’s list a Consent Agenda. It’s important to note that a Consent Agenda isn’t authorized to be used unless it has been documented as a special rule of order (See RONR 41:32)

    I’m disappointed to see that there were no provisions for the board to hold electronic meetings if only in case of emergencies. Electronic meetings must be authorized in the bylaws (See RONR 9:30).

    It’s my understanding that some Committees hold their meetings via ZOOM. Unless electronic meetings are authorized in the bylaws or the committee is authorized by the board that created it to do so, they are not permitted (See RONR 50:26).

    So… when all is said and done, and with all the hard work and time that went into revising the bylaws by the committee, what benefit did the Members actually receive? And were these revised bylaws made more Members Friendly? Not really. We still can’t vote at our own membership meeting where the results actually have value, and that’s the issue that first initiated this revision! The only full benefit I see is that the Members are now allowed to collect signatures for proxies and petitions on RCSC property. I value the reduction of the quorum to 800 as only a half-benefit because they now limit the number of proxies each Member can hold to 10.

    This review is just one man’s opinion and by no means all-inclusive. There are much smarter people than I who would do a much better job at evaluating these contents.

    Sorry folks, but we have lost the ability and privilege of co-governance within our community.

    I’m not just making this stuff up and I’d be happy to discuss any of my comments with anybody. And as always I welcome the opportunity to be proven wrong. I consider it as part of my continuing education.
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  2. suncityjack

    suncityjack Active Member

    Thank you for taking the time to make this all more intelligible to me.
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  3. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Tom went to an enormous amount of work breaking this all down. He wasn't the only, scj, but easily the most detailed. The vast majority of RCSC members have no idea what the Bylaws say, or why they matter. My biggest problem with everything that has transpired over the past 15 years is how loosely the board has interpreted their own rules. At times it simply hasn't mattered what they say, they just twist is to fit their narrative.

    Nothing could be more apparent, than how they have ignored the Articles of Incorporation. They state clearly and emphatically the members have the prevailing right, once a quorum is met, to pass motions regardless of what the board does. This is neither arbitrary, capricious or ambiguous, our decision overrides theirs. Trying to rewrite and restate that intended consequence in the bylaws is a clear cut violation of the Articles. Hell, even a former administrative law judge should be able to grasp that.
     
    eyesopen likes this.
  4. suncityjack

    suncityjack Active Member

    Amen Bill. BTW, are we gonna be able to vote at the Annual Mtg. Nov. 1 if there is a quorum or don't we know?
     
  5. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Here's the deal scj; the new bylaws most likely won't be passed so the old ones are in play. Their latest ruling is the quorum will still be 1250, though members can still get as many proxies as the are able to collect. The real question is, why bother?

    They have ruled we can vote and then the board will take it back and study the motions should they be passed on the floor. It's ludicrous on its face as the Articles of Incorporation state clearly motions properly made (in advance and posted in accordance with the bylaws) can be passed on the floor of the annual membership meeting. I guess after last year's debacle where we weren't even allowed to vote, they've mellowed. Or perhaps the attorney is unwilling to put himself in harms way again.

    The new bylaws, are even more suspect. We can make motions from the floor, vote and pass them and then the board studies them. They have 45 days to tell us yes, no or oddly worse yet, say nothing at all and they just die. Don't ask me to explain that one, it's straight from the twilight zone. Rod Serling would be proud.

    Should they say nothing and the membership figures out they died the death of a thousand cuts, we can then go into the community and try and gather 3,25o signatures (or so) and call for another meeting. There is some disagreement whether we need to reach the quorum again (800) or not. If there is good news in the new bylaws, we can collect the signatures on RCSC property (our property btw, but that's just my opinion).

    Anyway, at this new meeting, after jumping through all of the aforementioned hoops, they are allegedly going to grant us what the Articles of Incorporation have told us what we are entitled to all along. Clear as mud eh????
     
    eyesopen and FYI like this.
  6. suncityjack

    suncityjack Active Member

    Whew! Yeah, Twilight Zone material for sure. So the moral of the story is that still pays to show up and hope the board will act on behalf of the members within/after the 45 days (why didn't they just make it 4o?Much more biblical to wander in the wilderness and be tested for that length of time)....
     
    eyesopen and BPearson like this.

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