40 Million Dollars...

I throw this number out occasionally and almost always immediately get challenged; where do you get those figures for the Mountain View project from? Some seem to think i am making them up to try and snowball the building of the theater. I'm not and i simply tell them to go to the RCSC website and click on the "PIF BUDGET: found here.

I've always supported a theater, i'm not a fan of 40 million dollars on any single project. The RCSC did a disservice to the Players Club and others who will use that performing arts venue by lumping in all the other stuff they did. The likelihood that much of it will ever be built is slim to none.

Nonetheless, its there for God and everyone else to see. If my math is correct, the projected totals come in at 39 million dollars and change, and that's based on a 3% inflation factor. A point former Director Hoffer argued was nowhere near enough and he was right.

All of which is the perfect jumping off point into my minds eye. I tend to look at things more holistically, more from a big picture Sun City. The short time i was on the long range planning committee, our sub-group authored a report still on the RCSC website.

We were asked/tasked to submit a summary to the board regarding the next generation home buyers. Most know the group as Generation X (Gen X'ers). We did a fair amount of research and put together a pretty healthy response for the board to sort through. Three things were highlighted; keep Sun City affordable, most of them would work later in life and technology needed to be heightened to attract them.

Sadly, the report went nowhere. In conjunction with it, we asked the board to provide an in-depth study on the state of our technology. We knew we were well behind the curve, we didn't realize how badly it had been neglected. It was well received by the chair and co-chair when we made the suggestion. Once the GM saw it, the entire thing was deemed foolish. It's when i quit, i understood the general manager was still driving every decision, the board was a mere figurehead. She was terrified what it would reveal.

All of which is simply a lengthy set-up for my thoughts on that 40 million dollar figure. Many of you know how frustrated i was while serving on the board. We had the chance to buy the Lakes Club. It was for sale and we had the money, just not the interest or the will. In all likelihood, that opportunity is lost forever.

This isn't another lament over the Lakes Club. This next suggestion may well be crazy? Or might just be genius? Either way, i am going to throw it out there and let it percolate. Love your thoughts, your feedback, your insights. That's what i proposed with the Lakes Club and we (the board) were told point blank, don't mention it to anyone, especially the members. It was so wrong-headed.

Anyway, stay tuned, this will get interesting.

 

Let's start this discussion off with this curious disclaimer; if i were on the RCSC board, before i committed 40 million dollars to the Mountain View project, i would first explore the potential of this coming proposal, this off the charts idea. To get there, let me say a couple of things to help you understand why i would suggest such a far out there proposal.

We know, trends are a window to the future. Two of those trends are happening outside our walls and while we like to pretend they won't impact us, clearly they will. You can challenge or question their validity but both are statistically supported by data available to anyone wanting to find it. The first is; brick and mortar stores are becoming less likely to survive. Even the Wal-Marts of the world are shifting their strategy to online buying. Amazon isn't a passing phase; it's way the next generations will be shopping.

The second one will at some point become an issue in Sun City. Formalized religion is also losing ground. There's been a steady downturn in the numbers of people attending church services. The pandemic didn't help those statistics, but the reality is, the percentages of those going to church on Saturday or Sunday has been declining for years. Both of those statistics don't bode well for Sun City's future.

Here's why. Sun City, built from 1960-1978 and filled with the "greatest generation," were people who shopped locally and went to church regularly. When the boomers started coming, the pressures were already hitting the community as their needs and wants were different than the first round of home owners. DEVCO built 31 churches and 16 shopping centers in Sun City. They also built 11 golf courses, but that's another topic for another time.

We know Sun City is 7 miles long and 3 miles wide. We know, many of those shopping centers built into the community are struggling. We know attendance at church services are on the decline and both of those entities (shopping centers and churches) are feeling the squeeze. We also know that when shopping centers sit empty, they become a blight on the community. They not only look bad, but at times they create an illusion then community is run down and failing.

The good news has been, many of those shopping centers have been bought by companies who house doctors and supporting services. Not enough though, and the other good news is, churches have yet to feel the squeeze. The bad news is, like the shopping centers, they will. I mentioned a while back, while on the RCSC board, we were offered the LaRonde shopping center. The price was right, the timing was wrong.

We simply weren't prepared to take on that big of a project/ownership. In retrospect, we should have bought it. We could have turned one side into rentals space with the other side plowed under and built an amazing theater and administrative office complex. It was the opportunity of a lifetime and we missed it. Not because we were foolish, but because it was too aggressive a process and we were too small thinking.

When you drive by the two-sides of the center know, owned by Barnett Delaney, they have rescued the center. It looks amazing and is always busy. It was and is a rebirth that has helped Sun City look alive and healthy. A similar outcome happened to the tired old center on 99th and Thunderbird. That center is also predominantly doctors offices and looks far better than what it did years back.

Conversely, if you go up to phase 3 on 99th and Union Hills there's a small strip mall that has been vacant for damn near as long as i have lived here. Nope, not suggesting we buy it; it's too small and ingress egress is horrible. You can easily see where this is going; or perhaps you can't.

Stay tuned.

 

I'm headed off to coffee with a couple of old friends who have been long active in Sun City. It will be fun to run this suggestion by them; however you get the first bite at the apple. It took me a bit to get here, but i think it worth the wait. We'll see what you think.

Let's start with that 40 million dollars figure. It's a boatload of money. The good news is, we have it. The bad news, at least by my perspective, is to plow it all into one single project in one location. Mountain View in the furthest reaches of Sun City and that needs to be revitalized. That said, do we need the taj mahal of theaters? Do we need another indoor walking track? An indoor gym? I know we tout data, do we actually have any of the supporting data telling us that?

I don't want to have that debate here. I want to throw out a suggestion to start the ball rolling. There is not another more distressed area than Peoria and 107th Avenue in Sun City. The two shopping centers (owned by one company by the way) were built in the early 60's and look like it. While it's fun to visit the thrift stores, how much do they contribute to community values? Nope, not suggesting they all go away, just some of them.

We know the Sun Bowl is an amazing and popular venue. What would happen if we bought the shopping center adjacent to the Sun Bowl and made it our entertainment district? The WalGreen on the corner is free-standing and just sold. The shops behind it are partially filled and i am told some of them struggle to pay their rent. What if the RCSC went to the shopping center owners and offered to buy that half next to the Sun Bowl.

Imagine a performing arts theater next to the Sun Bowl. A location where the joint parking lot would allow a 60's era Broadway theater to be built that was big enough to showcase talent and with adequate parking to accommodate crowds for either venue because you controlled when events were scheduled at both. When shows were weathered out, they would simply move next door. Imagine the remaining shopping center now housing businesses that could pay the rent and restore the community to a more pristine time and era.

Imagine housing a nice bar/restaurant where patrons of the arts would go before and after performances. Imagine the pressure to remove the half-way house across the street that is causing untold issues in the community. We know as community's clean up run down areas it has an upward pull on the entire area around it. Then imagine taking the remaining money and turning Mountain View into a "sports venue." Pickleball, pools and single level indoor gym if the data supports and with it with a small fitness area attached.

My best guess is this could be done for less than 40 million dollars and done more quickly without the angst we are currently seeing. Theater first, with the MV project after the fact.

I know, i'm a dreamer, but without dreamers, where would we be? Off to coffee, checking back in later.

 

Bill....Your thoughts make a WHOLE LOT MORE sense than the current plan for MV. In fact I would venture to guess that a larger number of us will still be alive to see some of the results of your ideas than what is currently in the making. A lot of flexibility in a number of ways following your ideas that would allow for better long term budgeting and SPENDING.

 

Thanks for getting my point Gary. Given your previous background, you understand what happens when areas of the community become run down. I've always been a fan of fixing multiple problems with single solutions. Common sense is a beautiful thing. Too bad it's so uncommon.

 

Bill, you are spot on. Redevelopment brings energy and excitement and there is no better place to expand entertainment than around the Sun Bowl! We are so lucky to have that venue and adding what you describe would be a "dream" for Sun City. We are fortunate to have the resources, and IF the Sun City Foundation would be used the way most Foundations are, the theater could have even more resources. Many people love to donate to the arts. Just another thought.

We need more dreamers, and you may be just the right person bring them on board.

 

I wouldn't have suggested this idea gang, except once they posted 40 million dollars as their budget, options started opening up. Money is so often an issue, and oddly enough, now it's not. The bigger questions become; what's the best way to get the most for what we are spending? The Mountain View project has always been suspect because of the parking problem. We know they did a site evaluation study around 2009, that only a handful are aware of and even fewer have seen. What did it say?

Why they've never shown anyone that is beyond me? The beauty of a combined Sun Bowl/Theater project where they buy the shopping center and plow it under and create an entertainment district is logical. The Sun Bowl has a very large parking lot that becomes theater patron parking. Added to the square footage of the lot and resulting theater their options on size increases.

Best of all, it changes the community dynamic. The area, already badly run down, immediately puts forward a better look and feel. The remaining shopping center with some nicely appointed upgrades becomes more attractive to the potential renters and users. The drug rehab clinic across the street has caused a number of issues at both the Fairway Rec Center and to the neighborhood. I'm a recovering alcoholic who went through treatment. i don't hate people trying to get their shit together. That site would be better suited elsewhere. If the area is developed, the land becomes more valuable.

The problem with our long term PIF budget is we have dedicated virtually everything to Mountain View and golf course turf reduction. There's little else left to do things that need be done. We know dedicated club room space is highly sought after. What happens when churches start feeling the pinch and need to sell? Will the RCSC be in a position to buy one or more? Every time i drive by one, i look at the amount of land, open parking and square footage from the building and ask myself; what if?

The old adage attributed to Will Rogers and others is still true; "God ain't making anymore land." That's especially true in Sun City which is land locked and using the old brick and mortar for anything other than medical facilities has limitations. Those limitations should be seen as opportunities for the RCSC. I had a friend who was one of the founding members of the World Futurists Society and he helped me understand, trends were the window to the future. Are we smart enough to pay attention?

To recap, we should at least make inquiries to the that center. If the owners are amenable to a sale, we could immediately shift gears. I know the argument, it will slow things down and we've already spent a million plus dollars on architectural drawings. All valid, but the concept of an entertainment district with theater and Sun Bowl at one location is so easy to visualize. When Sun Bowl programs were cancelled due to weather, move it next door. Given the luxury of all of the parking, we may well be able to increase the size of the theater.

Once that's done, i would turn my eye to Mountain View. I would make it the southern sports venue rec center. In the years it takes the RCSC to build the theater, they wouldn't need to do anything to what's already there. The plans for multiple pools, enhanced pickleball courts and whatever else fits could be done down the road and when it would be a fraction of the cost. We wouldn't be plowing under usable amenities and trying to jam pickleball courts into Lakeview.

We argued in the long range planning committee the idea of cohesive strategic long range planning. Something the RCSC hasn't been very good at. It appears as if that is still the case.

 

This makes so much sense! MV a sports complex...pure and simple. The Sun Bowl area an entertainment complex...brilliant! And, we can multi-task.

 

I always smile when i think about this stuff. As the RCSC starts planning to plow under perfectly good pickleball courts at Mountain View, one can only question; will that be the fate of the million dollar courts they are talking about building adjacent to the lake. What happens to them when the rebuild the Lakeview Rec Center? Are we thinking that far down the road, or are we just doing something for the sake of doing something? I guess when you have so much money, careful, well thought out planning for the long term isn't important.

Or, is it?

 

This is exactly the point to explore before destruction or construction begins. How wasteful. What a shameful way to proceed.

 

Thinking's hard!

I wish they would just stop with the pie-in-the-sky renovations at Mountain View and just concentrate on building a performing arts theater. Don't forget, Fairway Rec Center is less than a mile away with all the amenities you could ask for. Fairway even has Club rooms, something Mountain View doesn't have!

But...as our president once told us, "That train has left the station." Choo-Choo!

 

Bill, not only are you a dreamer, but you are a brilliant dreamer! This is such an excellent idea! It makes perfect sense and is a solution that will make everyone smile. Thank you, thank you, thank you. We finally have a conductor for our train. Now we need to get that train on the right track.

 

It does make so much sense, doesn’t it? It is a win-win-win-win for so many clubs and the community. It is a win for the Theatre and arts community, not only because it can be built sooner, it will also be built to a higher standard and showcased as a performing arts center, not a rec center. It is a win for Mountain View to keep it as a sports complex and to be able to expand to the growing needs of the next generation. It is a win for all the residents of Sun City by making it a more desirable community to live in. It is a win for the neighboring area by making it a safer place to live and play. It is a win by attracting future residents to the area with upscale coffee shops and entertainment. And the list goes on and on……

 

The train may have left the station, but it left without a conductor. It’s about time we get that train set on the right tracks! The renovations at Mountain View are indeed “pie in the sky” and don’t make any sense at all. I totally agree with you on your comment about concentrating on building a performing arts theater as a stand alone building. I went to the last board meeting in April 2021 and suggested that the board concentrate on doing just that. I got applause from many of the members that were at that meeting. Jim McConnell, the president of the Sun City players club, asked to meet with me to discuss with me how we could make that happen. Sadly enough, our plans got “derailed.”

 

This point definitely needs to be explored. It is indeed a shameful way to proceed. It is exactly .7 miles between Fairway and Mt. View Rec Centers. There is no need for two indoor walking tracks that close to each other.

 

One has to ask, “who in their right mind would plow under perfectly good Pickleball Courts at Mountain View? “ Those 7 Pickleball Courts were built in 2014. In June 2021, seven years later, the RCSC Board voted To move forward with plans to plow the courts under. The existing courts are ideal for all members in our community: the fencing is awesome to help keep errant shots from rolling onto adjacent courts; the lighting is perfect; the wind screens are great; the parking is ample and convenient; the viewing of play is great; the function of court accessibility runs smoothly; and the camaraderie and social interaction between players is wonderful. The players at Mountain View have all formed special bonds that shouldn’t be taken away

 

Bill, this statement couldn’t be made any better:
Sun City=Community before corporation, people before politics.

 

Carol, I couldn’t agree with you more. Their current plans definitely are NOT in the best interest of this community.

 

Most readers/members aren't aware of this but one of the often stated goals of the long range planning committee was to have each rec center to be it's own (for lack of a better word), center of excellence. It's never been well received by management or even discussed much. There's always been a disconnect between the LRPC and the board and management. What's the point if you are not going to listen.

Parking has always been a roadblock for the theater. The Sun Bowl is underutilized, but imagine if that parking area allowed us the luxury of a larger performing arts venue. We know they've been telling the softball players they were getting a new building. What if we did it in concert with that entire multi-block area being renovated. After that, we could shift focus to Mountain View and make it a "sporting complex.

The final cherry would be the Lakeview renovation. Everything from the Lakes Club over would come down and become an inviting center with pathways wandering along Meeker Mountain and fronting the water. Imagine!