RCSC Board of Directors, Thursday, January 27th, 9 am

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by OneDayAtATime, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Active Member

    Nothing changes! Let's stifle the members some more!!

    SECTION 5: MEETINGS OF THE BOARD
    Meetings of the Board shall be held on the days and times as designated by the Board. The President, Vice-President or his/her appointee shall preside at all meetings. Six (6) Board of Directors shall constitute a quorum. Robert’s Rules of Order shall govern procedure at all meetings of the Corporation provided they are consistent with the laws of the State of Arizona and the Corporate Documents. A Parliamentarian may be present at Board meetings at the discretion of the President.
    All meetings of the Board and Board/Member Exchanges, excluding
    Executive Sessions, shall be open and video recorded. with time allotted for Members to make comments. Member comments at Board Meetings will be limited to posted motions.

    At least seven (7) days prior to all Board meetings, excluding Executive and
    Special Sessions, an agenda, subject to amendment, shall be posted in RCSC Facilities and/or on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org). Motions made in Board meetings, excluding Executive and Special Sessions, shall be read and passed a minimum of three two times before finalized and acted upon unless readings are waived by a two-thirds (2/3) majority of the Board (6). As soon as practicable, a brief summary of the preceding Board meeting shall be posted on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org). After approved by the Board, minutes of Board meetings, excluding Executive Sessions, will be available on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org) or to Members in good standing at no cost upon request at the Corporate Office.
    Board/Member Exchanges will generally be held on the last Thursday of the month at 9am in the Sundial Auditorium. Board meetings will generally be held on the second Monday and last Thursday of the month at 9am in the Sundial Auditorium, except the months of July and August when no Board meetings or Board/Member Exchanges are held. Board/Member Exchanges may occur earlier in the month during November and December due to the holidays. Board meetings and Board/Member Exchanges schedules will be posted in RCSC Facilities and/or published in the newsletter (SunViews) and/or on the RCSC website (www.suncityaz.org).
    Board/Member Exchanges and Board Meetings will last for a maximum of two hours.
    The RCSC Board of Directors may hold a planning session quarterly or as needed to discuss issues or to garner information from the General Manager. These sessions will be open for attendance by Members who will not be allowed to comment. These sessions will be video recorded and posted on the RCSC website.
     
    Cheri Marchio and eyesopen like this.
  2. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    So which is it...two or three times?
     
  3. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Active Member

    I copied and pasted it from Adobe. Just checked; that's what it said.
     
  4. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Oh, I knew it wasn't you. I read the agenda off the web site.

    Pretty sloppy if you ask me!
     
    LoriEllingson likes this.
  5. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    I think they forgot to highlight, most likely reducing from three to just two readings.
     
    LoriEllingson likes this.
  6. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member


    They really want to silence MEMBERS. What are they so afraid of??

    Member comments at Board Meetings will be limited to posted motions. No more open General comments?!?

    Board/Member Exchanges and Board Meetings will last for a maximum of two hours. Is this really the best way to take care of business??
     
  7. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's just me that now thinks things are getting worse instead of better?

    Let's face it folks, they simply don't want to hear from us!

    "Member comments at Board Meetings will be limited to posted motions." So what exactly does that mean? If it's not listed on the agenda we can't comment on it? As you may well remember, when Sue Wilson first made the motion to establish that Ad-Hoc committee to review the Bylaws it wasn't listed on the agenda. It was simply a brand new motion raised under new business!

    Well,...at least they left the Member Comment section on the agenda, but don't be surprised if they either cut the time down to 2 minutes or only allow you to come to the mic and speak once or twice!!

    "Board/Member Exchanges and Board Meetings will last for a maximum of two hours" Well, at least they didn't list an actual time to adjourn on the agenda, so perhaps, if there's still some unfinished business one of our more friendly board members can simply call for a motion to Fix the Time to Which to Adjourn (22:1) meaning the meeting is scheduled for continuation at a particular time and place before the next regular scheduled meeting.

    Seems like the board is tightening their grip on their power. Won't be long and we might not be invited to attend the board meetings at all?
     
    Enigma, Carol and eyesopen like this.
  8. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member




    OPINIONS
    Lehrer: Getting off on the right foot in Sun City
    (Excerpts)

    …Your concerns and frustrations are real and acknowledged, but in order to move forward, everyone — board directors, those who take the time to attend meetings and residents throughout the community — need to commit to participating and becoming involved with the understanding that nothing will change overnight.

    …We have stated all along that as a Recreation Centers of Sun City member, you have the responsibility to participate in the governance of RCSC. Really.

    Posted Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:00 pm https://www.yourvalley.net/stories/lehrer-getting-off-on-the-right-foot-in-sun-city,281586

    Really? Doesn’t seem like the board is encouraging member participation.
    "Member comments at Board Meetings will be limited to posted motions."
    "Board/Member Exchanges and Board Meetings will last for a maximum of two hours"
     
    LoriEllingson and Carol like this.
  9. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Let me jump in here and just tell you my thoughts. You may or may not agree which is how it should be. As a member of the Sun City Advocates, i find absolutely no reason for us to have to be in lock step on every issue we face. It is neither practical nor healthy. I am quite comfortable that reasonable people can have differing ideas and when they have a chance to be discussed and picked apart, something better usually comes from that effort.

    Frankly, that's exactly the reason the RCSC has failed on so many levels. They had morphed into an organization where debate was frowned on. They became so fixated on trusting/expecting the general manager to provide them with every answer, anything that challenged her opinions/actions was viewed as treasonous. Think not? That's exactly why both Barbara Brehm and Karen McAdam were kicked off the island. At least when Carole and i were on the board, they just out voted us and ignored most of what we said.

    With that out of the way, i will repeat an answer i gave yesterday via an email and question how i viewed the latest agenda? I hate to drag anyone into my old movie favorites, you know the ones they show every month, that i watch over and over again (i know, kind of sick). Anyway, i always enjoyed Patrick Swayze, and while Dirty Dancing was his best (IMHO), Road House ranks right up there. I know, ludicrous this smallish kind of guy can kick these monster guys ass as he cleans up the bar as the "chiller," but the characters and the plot are just fun.

    I digress; the question put to me was should we get angry over the latest agenda? Should we reach out to our 400 plus members and let them know how we feel about the changes they are proposing? My answer is steeped in Road House wisdom. When Swayze was asked by the bouncers how to deal with the crazies, he said, "be nice." The stunned looks became apparent and he repeated, "be nice." His final comment was, " be nice until it's time not to be nice."

    Let me be very clear about this; we are off to a very good start. The Advocate's membership has grown, and it will continue to grow. We want to attract RCSC members to become members of our group as well. We could add to it with anger, but we will grow much faster when we are the adults in the room and they act as if we are subservient to them. WE ARE NOT!

    I loved the fact eyesopen used Dale's words above to frame our argument. It is brilliance personified. We do have a "responsibility" to participate in the governance of Sun City and when you see our logo you will understand that is exactly what we intend to do. We aren't going away, we will only become more vocal, more focused, more motivated and more involved. Best of all, we will be doing it by being nice...at least until the time not to be nice.

    RIP Patrick Swayze.
     
  10. SCR

    SCR Active Member

    I tend to agree with eyesopen on this one. Limiting the meetings to 2 hours is just another attempt to stifle member participation and comment.
    Comments should not be limited to posted motions. Members get very few chances to speak their mind and ask questions of the board. When the floor is open for member comments the members should be able to speak to anything they are concerned about. By limiting to posted motions, areas of member concerns will never be heard.

    I believe all of these changes are comi9ng from the parliamentarian/lawyer on the stage.

    If board members need a break after 2 hours they should call for a 5 or 10 minute break.

    Once the Thursday meeting is in the books I think we should all understand where this board is headed. I don't think it is where members would like to see it go.
     
    Carol and eyesopen like this.
  11. jeb

    jeb Active Member

    Sounds like what's already been discussed: that there would be a Regular Board Meeting focused on getting business done between the 9 of them, while still allowing Member comment on motions (i.e. "business"). Then a second meeting that month (Exchange) which would be similar to the General Comments Section - where you speak your mind on anything and (hopefully) offer constructive suggestions. If we had a Board that was open, transparent, and actually wanted to involve Members this might actually work. Problem now, of course, is that we still don't have that kind of Board. Yet.
    A conspiracy theorist (which I'm not) might say: Ege is doing same thing Wilson did end-of-year: let's make it look like we want more involvement, but lets hack up the wording so bad that people will object, then we can point the finger at them and say they are holding up progress...
    They need to work on healing and making things right before taking things away and adding more restrictions (like a ridiculous 2 hour limit - then they can filibuster and postpone anything they don't want to deal with).

    Constructive suggestion? How about starting Member Exchanges on a trial basis without changing anything about existing formats. If the Board proves themselves by being responsive to EVERYTHING brought up at these Exchanges, then people will naturally be weaned off General Comments at the end of Regular Board Meetings.
     
  12. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    Perhaps that's a question that should be asked before they vote on that amendment?

    I'm still curious how these things get discussed and put on the agenda if the board isn't holding any meetings! Hmmm?
     
    LoriEllingson, Enigma and eyesopen like this.
  13. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member

    WHAT?? Ege didn’t independently generate the motion?? LOL!
     
    Enigma likes this.
  14. FYI

    FYI Well-Known Member

    That would require the board members to hold a third meeting a month because the two current regular meetings are already mandated by the Bylaws!

    We wouldn't want to overwork the directors!
     
    LoriEllingson and eyesopen like this.
  15. eyesopen

    eyesopen Well-Known Member


    In the end,
    it’s not the talk
    but the walk
    that matters.


    The term “talk the talk, walk the walk,”means a person should support what they say, not just with words, but also through action. I remain hopeful that Dale will demonstrate the walk more often than not, ”in the interest of the members.”
     
  16. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    One of the members of the Sun City Advocates asked me what it was like before all the changes the general manager made over the past 15 years? I have two points of reference, one before she came (2006) and one once i was on the board (2012-2014). The first is obviously the oldest and further from my memory. Safe to say, those elected to the board always viewed their role in the hierarchy as a step above us mere mortals. After all, they were elected by us to represent our interests. In fact, the documents they were given had instructions on how to represent the membership, along with other suggestions as to how to be a good board member...all steeped in common sense.

    In those days, committees played an essential role in every aspect of governance. They weren't an after-thought, but an integral part of the decision making process. But wait, there's more; when the board or committees did go off the rail, the community shouted from the mountain tops. Large crowds made boards nervous and tended to keep them from doing anything drastic, and large turnouts happened from time to time.

    The reason of course was the documents were built with safe-guards. Quarterly membership meetings with a quorum of 100 and recall petitions being an action that could be conducted on RCSC property were the biggest two that come to mind. That kept the board from doing things that angered the members. Of course, back then there were far more of the greatest generation than the baby boomers who had just started buying homes in Sun City. They were joiners, boomers, not so much.

    By the time i was elected in 2011, things had already began to change. The quorum was gone and those quarterly meetings were ludicrous with the threshold so high. I agreed to an annual meeting where i was convinced my fellow board members, once they saw we didn't reach a quorum, would drop it down to a more reachable number. Foolish me. The board (and management) saw no problem with residents not having a voice at their own annual membership meeting. If 1250 members didn't show up that meant they were all happy.

    My first year on the board, we would hold two member exchanges, one board meeting and whatever number of closed door work sessions we needed. The work session would typically follow the member exchanges. Even that got old as the member exchanges generally brought out the same members and the general manager proposed reducing it to one member exchange and one board meeting. The board of predominantly golfers loved the idea of less hours, which fit perfectly with how the gm functioned. She would give us the answers and we would bless them and be done more quickly than if we had to actually work out solutions with options.

    I will tell all of you, i liked the work sessions. We weren't seated above everyone as they were held in the social halls at Lakeview. We actually talked with members openly rather than smugly letting them make their comments and then sent back to their seats with nary a comment from the board. It was a far more effective way to function than the current structure.

    My biggest concern regarding the changes they are proposing is how they handle "work sessions." I think now they are calling them planning sessions. They are saying they will be filmed and members will be present but not allowed to comment. I can live with that. As several of you pointed out, stuff just sort of magically appears and no one is really sure how or who put it there? Executive sessions aren't there to prepare an agenda, but i know over the years officers have met away from the maddening crowd to set the course, often in conjunction with the general manager.

    We've long lamented the lack of transparency. We know they hide behind Title 10 and are scared to death of Title 33. Without transparency and being absolutely open in what they do and how they do it, this struggle will continue.
     
  17. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Active Member

    If you're reading this and want to become a member of Sun City Advocates, please click on the link in Bill's post below mine. We're over 400 strong and growing!
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  18. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    For some reason your link isn't work ODATT, try this: Sun City Advocates sign -up.

    If you haven't joined, you should, for several reasons:
    1). You do have a responsibility to be involved in our self-governance.
    2). It will be educational.
    3). It will be fun.
    4). You'll look better and become way smarter (okay, that first part of this may be a stretch).
     
  19. Jhiggins

    Jhiggins New Member

    eyesopen likes this.
  20. OneDayAtATime

    OneDayAtATime Active Member

    Thank you for the update. Is this being sent out to the entire membership via an email blast?
     

Share This Page