SB1094

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. Tom McClain

    Tom McClain Member

    There were 40 litigants, and they all gave some to the $20,000 one time fee that Jonathan accepted on a contingency basis. Some have died. Anne and Dick put up too. She almost alone walked Sun City to raise the fee. It took her over 3 years to do it, but she did it and Jonathan gladly accepted the challenge. So, Anne asks others to only do what she would do. She walks the walk. I know because I have been there with her and assisted.

    One more thing, Jonathan and his staff are the law firm that brought Anthem under Title 33 and won a huge contingency award. What amazes me is that RCSC has not won one legal battle they have been involved in under Jan Ek's leadership. Viewpoint lake comes to mind along with Quall Run and others. I believe they will lose this battle no matter how long it takes and Jonathan and his staff have made it clear they are in it until it ends in court.
     
  2. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    "Walked the walk " to what end Tom? If it's simply Title 33, awesome. But that's not the case is it? If you go to her website you will read Johnathan's target is the PIF. Without the PIF, Sun City turns into a dump with home values crashing and home sales plummeting. ARS has been after this since the early 2000's. When i met her for coffee (several times), she told me flat out, how they funded "unsurpassed amenities" (her words, not mine) wasn't her problem. It was all about getting even.

    It wasn't an accident i posted the battle from 1981/1982 within the RCSC board. Sun Cities history has been filled with legal battles and internal challenges. In every case i have read, the goal was to strengthen Sun City, not destroy it. And so we are clear, over the 60 years of our existence thousands of residents have "walked the walk." They donated countless hours to make Sun City the incredible community it is today. Their goal was to leave it a better place than when they found it. Too bad that wasn't what ars wanted to do, she could have been a force to reckon with. Instead we are all just footing the bill for her hostility over a concrete drainage ditch rather than a meandering stream.
     
  3. Tom McClain

    Tom McClain Member

    Bill, You and the rest are just like the anti-Trump crowd. Your hatred for Anne is all consuming.It clouds your perspective of what is really going on in Sun City. But you’re not talking to Anne, you’re talking to me. RCSC needs to be under title 33 to ensure the public has a say in what goes on in our community.If the PIF survives it survives because the general membership and the homeowners of Sun City want it to survive. Almost 20 years ago the RCSC board took that right away from the membership of Sun City. The difference between you and me is I trust the general membership and the public to make informed decisions, you don’t. So what is going on now is pure populism not an all knowing arrogant RCSC board that decides what’s best for the rest of us peons.
     
  4. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    This isn't about Trump (though i may sprinkle in some jabs because you brought it up), this is about Sun City Tom. I've never had a problem with T33, i still don't. If the ars suit was about that it wouldn't be an issue. It's not and you know it. John D's whole point is about "winning, " he doesn't give a rip what it does to this community. That's not his job, he wants to cash in as big as he can and the real numbers from the suit come from finding the PIF somehow illegal. The nickles and dimes that come from someone screwing up on the yearly assessment charges won't cover his parking fees at the courthouse. And so we are more clear, i don't hate ars, we went to coffee/lunch several times years back and I spoke with her (quite pleasantly) when she called me 3 0r 4 times over the past month. We just plain out disagree.

    You can trust the general membership all you want, but the idea they are going to vote for yearly assessments on top of rec fees is a fools game. Worse yet, the folks ars claims to represent would be the hardest hit by the $200 to $500 yearly assessments to accomplish what we have done since 2000. There are any number of people living here who are on the poverty line bubble. Having spent three years as the president of the Sun City Foundation, i know. Check with SCCAN and see how important their services are to those who are just making it. Or how about Meals On Wheels and the services Olive Branch senior center and what they provide. How about if we pass those massive assessments, what happens to those people?

    As far as peons, there aren't classes of people in Sun City. ARS claimed to have a massive following. She, you or any of the other throngs of ardent supporters could have put together a slate of candidates, run and controlled the board within two years...assuming people would have voted for you. It's the beauty of the way we were built. While you may have believed what you said at the state in your testimony, once you collect the signatures they won't take you off the ballot or refuse to let you run. Of course here, there's no opportunity to win with an electoral college vote, you actually need to get the highest numbers of votes.

    And so we are clear, i have railed against the changes made by the board and the GM over the years. It was wrong headed and adverse to the foundations this community was built on. Title 33 will help right that. The lawsuit could help destroy the very premise of our existence. You may not like where we are, but like i asked ann years back, show me another community with more amenities and lessor costs. She couldn't and neither can you.

    When you called me on the phone and asked me to testify, i told you i couldn't because of all the above. You told me ars was no longer involved. I guess, much like Trump, saying whatever you need to say to achieve your goals is now an acceptable way of doing business. It's not in my book, never has been, never will be. I get hyperbole, i hate the lies that are now our standard way of life.
     
  5. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Since this thread is about SB1094, and we're mentioning names, I wonder how many of the names listed on the azleg RTS system in favor of SB1094 actually know their names are there. I say this because adding a yes/no RTS entry requires you to register AND THEN activate (which must be done at the capital, either in person or via a surrogate). There are 610 entries in-favor of the bill, mostly husband/wife duos (roughly 900-1000 names), all placed over a few day period. The idea that 610 people went to the capital, or had surrogates do that for them in a couple days seems, well, pretty suspicious.

    I like to fact check if I can.
    1. I thought -- maybe some of those 610 are from the Green Valley group -- so I spot checked a dozen or so random entries. They all had SC addresses. Not definitive, but indicates a trend
    2. I thought -- were they already registered on RTS? I have no way to check for sure, but I think it's a stretch to believe many were. I've asked a couple dozen acquaintances this past week if they knew there was an RTS system where they could vote for/against the pending bill -- all I got were blank stares and some comments indicating they didn't even know azleg.com exists.
    3. I know there are many computer-wise residents in SC, but some of the spot-check names from above had ages listed in their mid-80's. It's highly unlikely many in that demographic would be able to register and either drive to the capital or arrange for a surrogate to activate them on RTS over a 2-3 day period. FWIW, I'm in my 70's and it took me 5-days to register/activate via surrogate!
    Thus, I tend to believe there's a good chance those RTS registrations were done without the knowledge of a significant portion of those 610 entries. Personally, if I found my name there and I didn't explicitly put it there, I'd consider it fraud and be irate that the RCSC and/or their minions did this. And, I'd expect that there would be consequences.

    The 610 entries are public record, but they aren't visible to the majority of SC. Would publishing the list here (or in local media), for all SC to see, be an appropriate thing to do? I think it would rightly give the RCSC Directors the opportunity to be held accountable by anyone who finds their name on the list without their express permission.
     
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    My guess, and that is all it is, anyone who submitted an email supporting the bill probably ended up being stuck on the list by someone who has authorization to do so. In all likelihood a lobbyist or politician who knows how to game the system. And we know for certain, given the striker bill crap, there are those who know how to game the system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  7. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    I suspect the same. If that's correct, it would seem to violate peoples' privacy -- an email is private between the sender/receiver. Posting on the RTS system is public. My point was that some of the 610 probably wouldn't want there name made public.
     
  8. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    I agree IC, sending off an email is hardly the same as registering and posting your name for others to see. Especially when some of you who were trying to submit weren't even able to do so. The one thing we know is; there's no such thing as shame in the political game.
     
  9. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Looks like SB1094 is back on the calendar for House COW. It doesn't post the time on the AZ Leg ALIS site so not sure when to tune in.
     
  10. CMartinez

    CMartinez Well-Known Member

    Aggie, if you get any additional information on this pending action, I would be grateful if you would post it please. Thank You
     
  11. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    COW in the House voted 32-25 in favor of the bill as amended. So frustrating again to see the misinformation on the side of those opposed and really a lack of clarity from the side in favor of the bill. Now on to the Senate.... You'll have to watch the video once it's posted.
     
  12. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    Once again I cannot find the place to post a new thread.
    Question:
    Has anyone "cut the tv cord" and gotten a thingie that goes on the wall for tv reception?
     
  13. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

  14. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

  15. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Okay...the video of the COW vote on SB1094 is now available: http://azleg.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=13&clip_id=22901
    Rep. Blanc certainly hasn't done her homework and is listening to the wrong people for her arguments in opposition. She would simply have to go to the FAQ section of the RCSC website to get the correct information as to who & when the PIF is charged. It irks me also when they refer to the RCSC as the HOA for Sun City.

    Appreciate the new open meeting format although it's still in its infancy. I do miss the updates from the Directors about their various committees & liaisons.
     
  16. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Why do i get the feeling the RCSC and the forces clamoring not to have to follow T33, may win the battle and ultimately lose the war? What's that old adage, "hell hath no fury like a judge scorned." Okay, so i tweaked it a tad, but i suspect you get my drift.

    Aggie made reference to today's RCSC open meeting format. It clearly is a work in progress, but infinitely better for those of us living here than the 50 years hidden behind closed doors. I would have killed (slight exaggeration) to have held our work sessions and the ugly battles in front of the consuming public. If you watch my comments, we would never have been stuck in the stupid we are today. It was easy to blow Carole and i off when we complained about bad choices in backrooms. It's wholly different when doing it with the masses watching and wondering.

    Good governance is predicated on a process that is inclusive and the more people are engaged and involved the better likelihood we make sound decisions. The smaller the circle, the more likely to be fixated on a singular agenda. Scary how much we have shoveled at golf only to read at today's meeting golf rounds were well behind last years pace and the second lowest figure in the past 14 years. Hopefully the excuse of the two days of rain were the culprit. Unfortunately every article i have read for the past 6 years has said it's the trend all across the country.
     
  17. CMartinez

    CMartinez Well-Known Member

    Arizona Homeowners Coalition
    Legislative Update
    Legislative Update
    4/26/2019


    Despite the scheduled end of the legislative session today, the session has been extended by the Speaker of the House and President of the Senate for one more week. This action will now allow time for both Bills SB-1094 and SB-1531 to be passed by the legislature prior to session end.

    The House on Wednesday Passed SB-1094 the bill that retroactively exonerates Sun Cities Recreation Centers from accountability for violating the law for 25 years and eliminates the homeowners living under that association’s control, from the protections of the planned community act. Every Republican House member that had personally committed to me that they would vote against this bill were somehow convinced to change their vote and approve the measure. The final vote was 32 to 25 with two representatives not present. If only three of the four that committed to oppose the measure did so, the bill would have been defeated. The bill will now go to the Senate where it will be considered in Caucus than voted on from the floor. Senator Gray will absolutely prevail and ensure that all Republicans vote in his favor. While I’ve still written all Senators any further efforts to stop this bill in the Senate would be futile.

    Right now our best chance to stop both this legislation is to contact the Governor’s office and ask that he veto either bill if they make it to his desk. The Governor is not swayed in any way by the fact that the legislature put a bill on his desk. He will approve it or veto it based on what he believes is best for Arizona. The following link can be used to write the Governor directly and express your opposition to both bills. Contact the Governor .
     
  18. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    Sad, sad news. The shenanigans to get this bill crafted and through the legislature shows how little society as a whole values truth and fact based government. I'm ashamed to have Gray and Payne as our legislators because of this.
     
  19. suncityjack

    suncityjack Active Member

    Whenever this comes up in discussions, those FOR SB1094 tell me that that they are mostly afraid of 2 things:
    1)our possibly losing the age restriction but I tell them that has nothing to do with that as that is SCHOA's realm because of CCRs not a RCSC matter, so that relieves them
    HOWEVER #2 concern is tougher and I have to clam up since I don't know enough.
    2) the property transfer fee would probably be lowered to c.$400 and the difference between that and the $3500 now paid upon property sales would have to be made up by us somehow and therefore the annual rec. fees would have to add it in somehow or some other way would be found to get it, or the facilities will not be improved and deteriorate. I am concerned about that too, so can someone explain why our fears are invalid on that one?
     
  20. IndependentCynic

    IndependentCynic Active Member

    While doing it doesn't prove it's legal, certainly many (not all) T33 55+ communities in our vicinity charge fees similar to SC's PIF. I didn't take the time to find current documentation except for SC Grand [here]. Here's a document from 2013 listing many others [here] -- eg, Ventana Lakes, Sun Village, etc.
     

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