SWAS...said with a smirk. Shocker! The annual membership meeting last night was cancelled; hard to believe but the quorum fell just short...by maybe 600 or 700 people. I don't estimate crowd size well, but i'll go out on a limb and say 500 people. Given the last one was just under 10 years ago (Sept of 2009), there really was no question this would be another year where it disappeared into the wind. They did open it up for questions and any number were asked about reaching the quorum numbers. My favorite was "isn't there anything they could do?" Sure, change it tomorrow to 500...but alas, that wasn't mentioned. Several board members were excited by the "large" turnout and were certain it was due to the postcard they sent. I suspect that played some role, and perhaps one of the reasons it is mandatory under T33 is that it does help drive attendance. The good thing is most of the speakers from the audience proclaimed their love for all things Sun City. No surprise there, what's not to love? One of the really good things mentioned was the fact there was no lot assessment increase the past two years and the attendees loved that as well. Kudos to the board on that one. I finally got to the mic and asked several solar questions; why the million dollar hike in payoff and whether the solar inverters were breaking and was it true we were paying to have them replaced. I won't try and repeat their answers, you can watch them for yourselves once the video is posted. My time ran out before i could get to the meat and potatoes., so i came back. Two quick points i made: I asked the board if they saw the email asking residents to call legislators before it was sent and if in fact they voted to send it. You can watch the response, but suffice to say, they felt that was a function of management, not the board. Obviously i disagree with the role the board took. More importantly i had Kevin Payne's piece of tripe from the Independent in my hand. I said i was stunned by his claims. They were outright lies and often mirrored what the board and the emails the RCSC was sending stated. I simply said we deserve better than lies and threats frightening people into calling their legislators. To their credit, they stayed respectful and polite, as did i. They have a thankless job, but in the end we just disagree. As i left, i told some friends i must be getting old, i used to be far more passionate at the mic. The one statement i made in closing is perhaps the most true. "Whether we are T33 or T10, Sun City will still be a great place to live." It won't change who and what we are, it will change how they function. It's that simple.
I think you were being very generous with the number of attendees at 500. Since everyone had to present a photo id, the RCSC should have a very accurate number of the attendees. As for the posting of the video - no clue as to why it has not been posted already. Perhaps because there was no quorum (and there never will be) they are using that to deny posting of the video. The largest attendance ever at Sundial is probably the Craft Fair. Parking for this event overflows into the church lot across the street for every day of the fair. For the Membership Meeting - lucky to fill the Sundial parking lot. I think by reactions on this forum to the Membership meeting, there is absolutely no interest by the community at large. I also believe that the BOD has absolutely no function in Sun City. As someone else mentioned, they are a figure head and nothing more. They have no real interest in performing the duties of a BOD. Yes, it's a thankless job, but if you ran for the position, you must be able to devote a major portion of your day to the functions of the board. For me, Sun City is a nice quiet place to live where most homes are kept in good shape and most everyone minds their own business. I don't use any of the RCSC facilities as I have outside interests that keep me busy and in shape. Just my opinions.
Having no quorum can't be the reason for the delay in not posting the video. Both 2017 and 2018 annual meeting are still posted and they had no quorums either. I probably was being generous in the total attendance, but that's just me, Mister Generosity. They do have the totals and it would be helpful to know just how far short we fell of the 1250 needed. As far as no one caring, if that's the case, i guess i should stop wasting my time writing and trying to make a difference. I've learned that apathy is an easy embrace, especially if one is looking for an out. I think in the case of T33 versus T10 it is so damn complicated most residents eyes glaze over even when the simplest terms are used. The blast emails work because people trust the leadership and believe they wouldn't steer them wrong. As i said at the meeting, Sun City survives either way. The only real impact from T33 is the board is forced to function more openly. The idea they will hold open meetings for work sessions sounds good, but will there be real decisions made there? Or, will they be made away from the maddening crowd? Under T33, any meetings held not in the public eye would be a potential lawsuit. Worse yet, once they are out from under the lawsuit, what would keep them from claiming the open door work session isn't conducive to getting their work done and revert back to closed door sessions?
Agreed. Open meetings is the major T33 benefit because it exposes what might happen before it does. Today the deed is done before most of us know about it. The downside is open meetings will make meetings last longer and be less focused -- that's just the nature of the thing. Example, we see that at exchange meetings when a member drones on about something another member has just spoken about -- the board will just have to learn to allow/manage it. There's another major benefit in T33 -- and it's, perhaps, what the BOD/Ek fear more than open meetings. T33 allows members to gather proxies and vote them. That means an organized group of members could use proxies to push their agenda. I'm thinking of ARS and her purported 4000+ group of supporters, or maybe the 5000+ golfers, or the 10,000(?) dog owners, etc. Things could get dicey if we as a community can't learn to forgo our partisanship/win at all costs culture. Frankly, the reason I've avoided being more involved is I don't see the Board, nor Management, as groups who embrace a prime directive of fostering a community spirit of openness, civility and fairness. Rather, their major concern often appears to be defense of their realms. It's oh so easy to take the mostly autocratic stance embraced by our RCSC BOD/GM. It appears to work because they control publicity and hide the dirty details. But those of us who have been successful managers know eventually the corruption, malfeasance, etc. creeps out. That's precisely what T33 was originally intended to do -- protect members from boards who are autocratic and abuse their charters. Running a community whose members have radically diverse resources, wants and needs ain't easy, whether it's the 40,000 in SC or the 500 in some RV Park in Mesa. Yet approximately 9000 organizations in AZ are doing so. The RCSC can too -- for the betterment of SC.
I think the "not" publishing the video of the annual meeting is the sign of what Jan Ek feels about the community. She wants the status quo, and will do all she can to make sure it stays this way. The video gives leverage to those who want to see change, any kind of change, to the workings of the BOD and the management team, and Jan is going to do all in her power to make sure no information is given to members of the RCSC and Sun City. It will be interesting to see when these "open meetings" begin, if ever, and what style of communication the BOD will try and use to avoid, delay, or refuse to provide answers to member questions. Simply look at the pending motions to be voted on at the March Board meetings, and nothing mentions open meetings that I can see. With open meetings the motions have to made available to view 5 days before hand. So far, nothing has been announced as to how this will come about. Just a mere observation. I feel there would be a greater interest in the actions and activities of the RCSC if the organization were to start to adhere to T33 and make the information available as it should. Until Jan and the BOD starts to treat the members as a valuable commodity to be included rather than a pain in the rear to be managed, little will change.
Hate to change the thread topic, but I'm curious. Where do all the changes, deletions, and additions mentioned in the agenda come from. Is there a lawyer that constantly reads these documents and makes recommendations? Are these changes, deletions, additions coming from Jan Ek? Are these changes, deletions, additions coming from the BOD? Are these changes, deletions, additions coming from the community at large? Why are these changes, deletions, additions being done? I find it difficult to believe that the board members read these documents constantly and suggest changes.
You are spot on SCR, board members seldom, if ever, look to the documents for guidance. The answer to your questions are yes, no, no and because someone sees the "need" to address a problem, real or perceived. I once wrote on this site that i truly doubt a board member ever bounded out of bed, raced to the office with the intent of changing the by-laws to negatively impact the community at-large that elected them. You can figure it out from there.
Please read at your leisure all of the motions being presented for vote for the March meeting. Pay particular attention to Motion 10: ARTICLE I – CORPORATE OFFICE, RECORDS AND PRIVACY POLICY The Recreation Centers of Sun City, Inc., a private non-profit corporation qualified under section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code, is regulated by Arizona Revised Statute Title 10 for nonprofit corporations. RCSC was created for the sole purpose of supporting recreational facilities and activities within the Sun City, Arizona community. The entirety of the structure of the board policies has been revised and each has been incorporated, one into the other. There is now a lot of missing words and passages and other stricken items, being replace with verbiage giving more power to the Manager and the management team. They can now make unilateral decisions without member input, and no appeal process in place. Look out, it is now an autocracy coming and will make the RCSC an omnipotent force to reckon with.
There is no reduction in the quorum and no proxies available and no early voting. There is no mailing of ballots to residents homes for the sake of generating a greater voter turnout There will be two board meetings, no member exchange meetings which will be "open". Does this mean the three minute timer will still be in play? The language states the RCSC will continue to be under Title 10, therefore, not adhering to the Title 33 in any way. The open meeting rules will not apply, so the same back room dirty deeds will continue, with no ramifications to the board members or the GM. Motion 1: I MOVE that the Grand Recreation Center, located at 10415 West Grand Avenue, Sun City, Arizona be completed in its entirety to include renovations to the current building and construction of an additional building. What additional building? There is now verbiage which now awards monies to the golf rangers. That is considered in-kind income and could create an issue as far as being a non-profit. Once volunteers are granted income for work, they are no longer volunteers, but wage earners. These folks should now be claiming these vouchers at the actual cost value, and if paying taxes, include this amount as income. I do not see anywhere the RCSC will pay for the taxable costs to the earners of these monies, making it the responsibility of the golf ranger to track these earnings. The RCSC should issue either a 1099 or a W-4 for each of these amounts to those receiving the benefit. The PIF report of accounts will now be presented quarterly, rather than monthly. So, what about expenditures during the three months? Anyone accountable for reporting this before the three months? The definition of the LRPC has changed with these new BP's. Just the highlights of what I read to be of interest, Please feel free to read and evaluate these changes yourselves.
C - I read the motions when they were first published and came to the same conclusion as you that the board is giving more and more control to Management. As for ARTICLE I - you are correct again and that paragraph is an Addition to the By Laws. That is probably an attempt to show that the RCSC was always bound to T10. I never really expected to see a reduction in the quorum. Be keeping the quorum unreasonably high the board has cemented their position as the only position. As to the Grand Ave property, I believe there was a conceptual drawing posted at some point that I think showed an addition to the original building. I thought I had a copy of it, by I haven't found it as yet. If I do, I'll post it here. The cost of the GAP (Grand Ave Project) will far exceed 7 million dollars when all said an done. I still question the existence of the board at all. They simply rubber stamp everything that comes before them. They definitely don't seem to have a voice of their own. Fun, fun, fun in Sun City.
It would be a fascinating study in the evolution of our governing documents to see a "then and now" screen shot from before Jan was the GM and what they will look like when the new ones are passed. Seriously folks, the writers of the Articles of Incorporation carefully crafted them to serve the community first, not the corporation. What we have seen is a steady migration from what is good for the community to what is good for the corporation. That is sad. But, there is a bright spot. The highest order of ranking of our documents begins with the Articles of Incorporation. They are the base that every other document has to conform to. While they can add the nonsense of the sole purpose language, the reality is, the Articles of Incorporation say this in Article 3: Article III The general nature of the business in which the Corporation is engaged is as follows: To do anything and everything lawfully necessary in the interest of the Members of the Corporation, including, without limitation, the following: 1. To establish and conduct a general social, cultural, recreational and amusement enterprise for the benefit of its Members and do anything lawfully necessary or convenient to accomplish such purpose, including, but not by way of limitation, to purchase, acquire, develop, sell, lease, own, operate, and manage theaters, playhouses, agricultural projects, riding stables and corrals, libraries, opera houses, golf courses, baseball and football games, tennis courts, dancing facilities, lawn bowling rinks, horseshoe pits, croquet courts, travel clubs, card games, shuffleboard, swimming pools, skating rinks, lecture and conference rooms, and facilities and equipment for such arts and crafts as ceramic work, sewing, woodworking, leathercraft, lapidary, photography, fine arts, jewelry, shellcraft, mosaics, etc., and any and all facilities necessary or incidental to accomplish the general purposes of the Corporation. 2. To coordinate, implement, and aid the various recreational and social clubs which are now or which may become duly recognized as such by this Corporation. 3. To promote cooperation in all matters of interest and benefit to the residents and/or homeowners of the area within the bounds set out in Article I, who become and remain Members of this Corporation. 4. To contract, coordinate or operate, with other organizations, associations, corporations, or individuals in carrying out and conducting the activities and endeavors for which this Corporation is formed and in effecting the benefits and results sought to be gained. 5. To purchase, lease, option, contract for or otherwise acquire, take, own, hold, exchange, sell, or otherwise dispose of, pledge, mortgage, hypothecate, encumber any and all classes of property necessary to the fulfillment and furtherance of the objects and purposes of the Corporation within the limits prescribed by law. 6. To issue such notes, bonds, debentures, contracts, or other security or evidence of indebtedness upon such terms and conditions and in such manner and form as may be prescribed or determined by the Board of Directors, within the limitations prescribed by Article X hereof. 7. To purchase, acquire, own, hold, sell, assign, transfer, mortgage, pledge or otherwise acquire, dispose of, hold or deal in the shares of stocks, bonds, debentures, notes or other security or evidence of indebtedness of this or any other corporation, association or individual, and to exercise all the rights, powers and privileges of ownership, including the right to vote thereon, to the same extent as a natural person might or could do. 8. To lend or invest its funds, with or without security, upon such terms and conditions as shall be prescribed or determined by the Board of Directors in accordance with Article VIII, Section 7, of these Articles of Incorporation. 9. To borrow money and to issue bonds, debentures, notes, contracts, and other evidences of indebtedness or obligation, and from time to time for any lawful purpose to mortgage, pledge, and otherwise charge any or all of its properties, property rights and assets to secure the payment thereof. 10. To act as surety or guarantor, agent, trustee, broker, or in any other fiduciary capacity. 11. To make and to perform contracts of every kind and description, and in carrying on its business, or for the purpose of attaining and furthering any of its objects, to do any and all things which a natural person might or could do, and which now or hereafter may be authorized by law, and in general, to do and perform such acts and things, and to have and exercise all the powers and to transact such business in connection with the foregoing objects as may be necessary and required. 12. To do all and everything necessary, suitable, or proper for the accomplishment of any of the purposes or attainment of any of the objects hereinabove enumerated, either alone or in association or partnership with other corporations, firms, and individuals, as principals, agents, brokers, contractors, trustees, or otherwise, and, in general, to engage in any and all lawful business that may be necessary or convenient in carrying on the business of said Corporation and for the purposes pertaining thereto, and to do any and every other act or acts, thing or things, incidental to, growing out of, or connected with said business, or any part or parts thereof; the designation of any object or purpose therein shall not be construed to be a limitation for qualifications or in any manner to limit or restrict the purpose and objects of the Corporation. 13. To transact any or all lawful business for which non-profit corporations may be incorporated under the laws of the State of Arizona and in pursuance thereof to exercise any or all powers granted to corporations in general under the laws of the State of Arizona. The foregoing purposes shall be construed as both objects and powers and the foregoing enumeration of specific purposes shall not be held to limit or restrict in any manner the powers of the Corporation. As you read this, many of you i suspect for the first time, you may see a tiny conflict from the sole purpose language in the AI's. Not quite sure how the board sees that as being acceptable, especially given my comments that i cannot imagine a board member jumping out of bed, racing to the office and crafting language that detracts from the rights/power of those of us living here. I don't know, maybe it is just the current political climate we live in these days. Who ever would have believed conservatives would embrace an autocratic style of governance over our democratic process? The direction Sun City has moved in is so far afield from how this community was built is truly staggering. It's why i have preached repeatedly about the importance of knowing, understanding and embracing our history. When we ignore it, or worse yet, abandon it, we risk losing everything that made Sun City special.
Took a bit, but i finally found the link for the Grand Ave property and the diagram including the "new building." You can find it here. I agree with SCR, the 7 million dollars will be a well below the final cost of the Grand Ave property. We know they paid 750K for the land. At this point i would be stunned if they have the actual costs for either building. No idea if they have factored in the parking lot that is a mess and i was told they will not be fencing the property; which was stunning by itself. Once they are all said and done, the total costs should be closer to 9 million than 7 million dollars. I hope someone in the organization stops for a minute and thinks about what that same 7 mil could have created had we simply bought the Lakes Club. But alas, that would have meant interrupting the all-golf-all-the-time PIF budget.
Thanks for the Grand Ave property layout. I have viewed it before and for some odd reason, never noticed the additional building. Won't this new center also have a parking problem with the available land and the footprints of the buildings? Not looking for trouble where none exists, but it appears to be a tight squeeze, and am not sure if there is enough ground to easily accommodate the proposed parking situation. The first sentence of Article 3 says it all, and also lets us know how far was have come: To do anything and everything lawfully necessary in the interest of the Members of the Corporation, including, without limitation, the following: In the interest of the Members The members are the last thing on the mind of the GM or the BOD. There seems to be an aura of disdain for the members, as they make demands and express needs which seems to rankle some in the Management arena. The way Ben was greeted and addressed at the board member exchange is a prime example of how the BOD feels about its members. If there was, indeed, an interest in what the members wanted, there would be open meetings about outstanding issues and input solicited. Would the footprint of a performing arts center at Bell Rec center cause another parking issue? Could it be looked at as a two story facility, using less footprint, yet still housing the needed seats and equipment to attract acts which would fill 600-800 seats? Just keep thinking about those possibilities as well, and rolling the ideas in my head. There is also the vacant lot at Olive and 99th. It has a Sun City Address. Too small for the need?
So the RCSC Annual Membership Meeting is now on the RCSC's youtube site. You can get to it by clicking on the icon on the bottom of the home page for RCSC. I can't say whether or not there were edits as I didn't attend the meeting. It does look like it has been uploaded in its entirety. I watched, pondered and look forward to what happens now.
They posted it straight up. There was never a question about them editing it on my end. The interesting thing is it just got posted and there are already a 150 views. I do like them posting the meetings, far more people normally watch tha attend.
