First, take off the colored glasses. Wipe away all feelings of nostalgia. Eliminate all biases (like the car you own is the best because no on wants to admit an imperfect decision). Take a dose of truth serum. If you were starting all over and making a choice TODAY, would Sun City (Original) be your first choice? P.S. I don’t know is not an option.
100% yes i would buy here R. I need every one to take a deep breath and come to understand, this isn't life or death. Going for coffee with Ben and the one thing we both understand from our history is the community has been a roller coaster of ups and downs. And to be sure, there's been far more turbulence in our past than we are seeing these days. The ugly part is, those of us supporting T33 are in the minority, by a lot. Not because T10 is better, but because THEY are telling us it's better. If you were the GM, you'd want to do what you wanted when you wanted as well. Sadly, many of the board members over the years have felt the same way. Way more thoughts on this matter, but for now, recognize there is not another community out there with the potential we have.
I am so sure we are going to be T33 in the very near future, I am going to practice asking open ended questions just to watch how some of these morons are going to reply. These people have no idea how to talk and interact with people. I know the judge is aware of what is going on, so its just a matter of time .
Don't count your chickens before the eggs are hatched. I think this is going to be touch and go and I would be surprised if we ever become T33. There is absolutely no push back to this legislation. Only a handful of individuals are opposed - probably only because no fully understands the full implications of T33. The majority of SC residents are have no clue as to what T33 is as opposed to T10. The RCSC (JE) are pushing this legislation to further their own agenda. The board has given complete control top the GM and the residents could care less.
The judge reconvenes this case early March. If you think the lack of adherence to his ruling is going to be lost because he's starting phase 2 of the trial, stand back and watch. The judge made a ruling and Jan Ek has chosen to ignore it. See if we are not T33 in a hurry.
Would still purchase in the original Sun City. There is nothing else like this community and its proximity to so many things. SCW has Bell Road and Grand ave as its main roads, no thank you. I see Sun City as the best value for the buck in all of the Sun Cities out there. T33 will just insure our place in the best of the best category once we get boards who understand their true standing in the community and who they are beholding too.
Let me just say this to help clear the air: There's no one posting here or from the board of directors who are doing anything other than looking out for the best interests of Sun City. We simply disagree with what is the right course of action. I will tell you from my years on the board it appeared the GM's first objective was to protect the corporation. That's not unreasonable, in fact it is a big reason she was hired. That said, the board is elected by the community and again in my opinion, their goals should be community first. That's where the balancing act should lay. Unfortunately a really strong GM has the potential to lead the thinking and direction. SCR suggested there should be a comprehensive analysis of the T1o versus T33. To my knowledge it has never been done, even though it should have. Apparently now they are trying to cobble something together but you have to wonder how objective it will be?
Honestly, I'd think about it long and hard. I know nirvana doesn't exist, but SC could be so much more. When I bought, the taxes were low and the RCSC economies of scale made SC attractive. The housing was already 20-40-years old then and I accepted the houses were smaller, they needed some updating, there was inadequate parking, etc.. I didn't expect the speed limits, which I considered oppressively slow on the major streets, to bother me much, but they do. For a community of 40,000, aside from medical, there were darn few commercial amenities (restaurants, movie theaters, gas stations, etc.) and limited mass transit -- and there's even less now. I even checked out the noise overlay from Luke. That's changed as well -- in some areas of P1 the noise from the airplanes from Luke is so loud you can't hear your TV or carry on a conversation for 3-5-minutes at a clip, only to have it happen again 20-minutes later, sometimes throughout the day and night. And another surprise, the train whistles at the grade crossings at 107th, 103rd, and 99th can wake one up in the middle of the night a good half mile away. Prior to signing the RCSC agreement at close of escrow I'd reviewed the AOIs and BLs. I assumed the RCSC would be responsive to the members and their wishes because, as I'd read the documents, that was their charter. But I haven't found that to be the case much, instead there has been constant bickering with the community over pifs and the cost of Fairway and golf and dog parks and green spaces, and quorums, etc. I found the rules they laud over the clubs makes for an environment which resists innovation, modernization, and change of most any kind. There is far from equal treatment of the clubs and the RCSC's allocation of the assessment and pif monies does not reflect the membership's wants proportionally, in my opinion. In fact, the management not only frequently ignores the membership, they have virtually cut the membership out of the loop altogether. Would T33 fix any of this. Maybe. But for sure, maintaining status quo won't.
Hey there IC. I am going to take a stab at this and hope not to make a bigger mess than already exists. Things we as a community cannot fix: the jets. They are here to stay, or, if they pull the unit out, the local economy would take a significant hit. I do not know of anywhere in the west/northwest valley you can go to avoid the jet noise. The speed limits, I don't know if the SCHOA transportation committee has already addressed this topic before, but it sure could use some revisiting again. The train whistles have become offensive. I suspect newer locomotives creates louder, odder sounding whistles. They can be overwhelming at times. Perhaps this an issue the SCHOA Transportation Committee could assist with. The "bickering" could have been community discussions and mutual understanding with compromise had T33 been in place. The club rules can be oppressive, and should be handled in an open and inviting way, yet with the expectation that each club be prepared to compromise where needed as well. The RCSC's allocation of funds has been inexcusable with the bulk of the funds going to golf and golf related issues. The membership was not allowed to even know how the monies were going to be spent, as the only voice, the only planners were the LRPC, and they were conveniently disbanded. The GM and the management team made all of the spending decisions, to which I believe is to the membership's detriment. The members have not been listened to nor communicated with in a way to create dialogue for a better RCSC and its projects. Will T33 fix any of this? Don't know what the agenda items would like, but T33 does insure the topics are open for discussion with the members present for two way communication. I am quite clear the art of listening, hearing and compromising will be foreign to some, but will need to be learned as these items move forward. The board will be run by the the Directors, not the GM, so there will be a learning curve and a few lessons need to be taught to some about humility and laughing and smirking at the members by the President of the board. In my very heart and soul, I am sure T33 will be the new law of the land in the very near future. I look forward to welcoming the new changes and watching the BOD have to start acting like a cohesive team to solve outstanding issues related to the community. The good news, with T33, they community gets to share in the decisions as well. I didn't fix anything with this reply, but I do hope if provides the promise of a better future with the RCSC and it transitions to T33.
And there-in lies the crux of the argument IC...Sun City could be so much more. I wouldn't live anywhere else, love the concept of being self-governed, even if we have strayed from the big-picture Sun City, to the small picture board/management construct. I always use the genius behind Sun City's success, John Meeker, as the model of how and why he turned Sun City around. It was never an i venture, but a belief the community would be enhanced by getting the most people behind its formation and foundation. He asked, prodded and probed till he knew what those living here wanted. Then he turned them into a sales force of excited residents who generated homes sales the likes this country hasn't seen in years (a ten year stretch with an average of 2000 sales per year). Staggering. Only fools ignore a history as rich as ours. Sadly the direction by management and the board has been internal, rather than external. Watching the video the other night of the member exchange was simply painful. Treating members with disdain is hardly the way to build brand loyalty. I suspect the next thing will be to stop recording the meetings; too costly, said with a chuckle. Here's the good news...Sun City will survive either way. Title 10 or Title 33 isn't what makes us special. Over the years there's been countless battles over direction and irrespective of the outcome, we've done just fine. The only question is...just how good can we become?
I know I'm boring to beat a dead horse about such things, but I can't just ignore them. I feel like neither side is really listening. Neither side is trying to compromise. The RCSC is saying "this is the way it is" and I feel "that's unacceptable". They own it and I have to pay for it. Figuratively, the RCSC is worrying about things like new ball washers on the golf courses... and I have zero interest/sympathy that they can't wash their dirty "you know what's". It's gotten ugly!
I feel like neither side is really listening. The above would be a correct statement. No one was listening to what the membership wanted, unless it was golf oriented. I truly trust and believe we have turned a corner to a new era of treating the members of the RCSC. The Judge's order that states the RCSC is a planned community was the first step. Within the realm of which comes first, legal statute or a house bill, the legal statute wins, as it sets the new law as precedence. SHOULD this HB pass, it takes nothing more than a stroke of a pen from the judge to undo it, stating the new law is unconstitutional as it only grants freedoms to some, not all, participants of the planned communities act. So, I am still sticking to my guns the RCSC is a planned community and the judge will uphold his ruling at all costs. So, IC, as I see it, within the near future you will have a say on how someone can wash their "you know what's". You can say you heard it here first, that CM was talking about dirty b**ls!
