SCHOA's open house...

Discussion in 'Sun City General Discussions' started by BPearson, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Got an email update from a dear friend who attended the Sun City Home Owners Association open house yesterday. He said it was well done, stayed on time and those in the room had a good time. His commentary was clear, SCHOA looked very good throughout the presentations which is critical for an organization dependent on voluntary membership.

    It's always been challenging, because so many new buyers think when they pay their lot assessment (rec fees) they are in fact paying their home owners association fees. Absolutely not the case. They are two separate organizations, one mandatory, one voluntary. Most age restricted communities have morphed into single entity structures, but not so in Sun City.

    SCHOA is free-standing and the better job it does in reaching both new buyers and existing owners, the more people come to understand the importance and role they play in the community. If you are not a member of SCHOA and you live in Sun City, you should join. It's $20 per year per household and the do a remarkable job in protecting our property values and insuring we maintain the age overlay.

    Here's the link to their website.
     
  2. pegmih

    pegmih Well-Known Member

    How do I join?
     
  3. Andria

    Andria New Member

    It's sad to hear that this needs to be encouraged. That's a small sum to do so much. Membership has it's privileges. When I own there, that will be one of the first things I'll take care of.
     
  4. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Follow the link above which is www.suncityhoa.org and click on Membership. You can either print out an application to submit to the office or fill out the online application and pay by credit card.
     
  5. sussea

    sussea Member

    I just joined.
     
  6. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Thanks for joining s, the more folks that join, the better positioned they are to enforce the community standards.

    That said, I heard from folks in the crowd that Tom Wilson again took the position, not just once but twice, SCHOA doesn't cover condo's. Really Tom? Really?

    Then to cap it off, we go to close on the house yesterday and I see a document with a $200 payment to SCHOA, some kind of a lien check fee. Of course I asked under what authority this fee was established and they had no idea. They just said it started at $50 4 or 5 years back and now was $200.

    I ran into a former board member from SCHOA and asked when and how that began. He said the legislature gave them the authority to charge this fee. When I got home I started digging; to my knowledge HOA's are covered under Title 33 of the Arizona Statutes. Clearly there is the opportunity to bring charges at closing that cover costs to the HOA involved, but my recollection is SCHOA doesn't fall under Title 33 and they certainly don't follow the statutes as defined in the law regarding planned communities.

    And if you really want to put the fly in the ointment, does SCHOA attach that $200 fee when a condo is purchased? Because if the head of the organization is claiming the CC&R's don't apply...well you get my drift. There needs to be some answers, because some or all of this may be just fine, but i'd like an explanation other than because they can.

    Hate to be a pain in the ass, but this is the kind of stuff that gets organizations in trouble. When there's a lack of openness, people begin to question; and I'm a huge fan of SCHOA. What I'm not a huge fan of is organizations who don't want to do their job or of them taking money without explaining how or why they are taking it.
     
  7. Mullet

    Mullet Member

    I went online yesterday and joined the SCHOA after reading this thread. I figured one less thing to do after we got there. Now, I'm wondering about this since we bought a condo. Why are they accepting the fee if we are not represented?

    BP - I checked our escrow paperwork after reading your latest remarks and can say that we were not assessed the $200 fee you described. By the way, congrats on the new house.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
  8. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Thanks for looking Mick. It still defies logic to me what is going on here. When we were at SCHOA we actively were recruiting Condo associations by offering them a discount rate for the entire units. Individual owners could join, as you did, but we lowered the rate so they could simply build it into their monthly assessment and then pay SCHOA for the year.

    Hopefully someone from SCHOA will come on and enlighten us all.
     
  9. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    I'll try to jump into the water with a few rambling thoughts. This is all based on being an homeowner in Sun City for almost 20 years, serving on various committees and attending many meetings.

    The now $200 SCHOA Inspection Fee covers the expense when a Title Company requests SCHOA check the property for CC&R infractions(setbacks, sheds etc.) before a sale is completed. The Title Company is charged the fee and I believe the fee used to be $50 way back and then raised to $100. The Title Company must be passing the fee along to seller/buyer.

    There are issues SCHOA can't resolve for COAs. SCHOA enforces the stated Sun City CC&Rs for all residences such as Senior Overlay and condition of property. Individual COAs would have to seek their own actions when it is an issue not covered in the Sun City CC&Rs....right?

    I guess an example would be if a COA said their owners couldn't have a dog larger than 25 pounds but an owner/occupant brought in a dog that was 35 pounds. That wouldn't be a SCHOA issue. How about if owners weren't allowed to plant a rose garden on common property but an owner decided it would look nice and went ahead and created the garden? Entry doors are to be neutral colors but an owner had a thing for neon orange.

    Any thoughts on this?
     
  10. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Oh...this may be of interest if the two workshops aren't already full.

    CC&R WORKSHOP/PANEL – November 5 – 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m.

    Must register in advance (623)974-4718
     
  11. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Thanks aggie, I was hoping you'd jump in. This SCHOA Inspection Fee has become a joke of extraordinary proportions. Let's call it what it is...a money grab. If in fact they even do a drive by, still not sure if that's the case, it's simply a quick look for a shed or a 5 foot infringement on the setback. And of course with Ekmark and Ekmark's (the legal firm they use) recent opinion, so what if they find something?

    I have to assume I have a legal right to see the inspection results of what they've done (chuckle, chuckle). As I poured over their website, I found no mention of this "service" they provide. You can do the math, $200 times 2000 plus homes this year and that's a neat $40,000...for what? Not trying to be picky, but this is troubling to me.

    But way more problematic is the position Wilson keeps touting. I agree, the condo association rules are in force and need be legislated by the condo owners themselves. They are, as I have written, the first line of defense. And let me say, if they fail to do their jobs, they put themselves (the officers) in harms way. That's one of the challenges of Title 33, they are fairly explicit regarding the legal obligations and expectations. People living in attached housing have legal recourse if their officers are remiss in administrating their duties in accordance with the law.

    But beyond that, SCHOA has the obligation to enforce the community standards. Please note, these aren't the single family home owners standards. These aren't the standards for everyone but those living in condo's. As you pointed out, age restrictions, condition of property, chickens in the carport, 12 foot walls erected around the perimeter of the property affect everyone living in the community. And when reading the Facilities agreement we all sign, it is quite clear.

    Emily was spot on, Bill S was adamant these were community standards that covered everyone. There's little worse for an organization than to flop about like a fish out of water. Waffling on issues is a death knell as some boards and staffers take the right position while others take the lazy-man's approach..."not my job." If you don't get my drift, I could be more clear.

    There's a monthly board meeting this coming Tuesday and I would love to be there for it. As a dues paying member, we have the right to a voice. I am meeting several vendors at the new house on Tuesday, so not sure if I can sneak away. If I mess it, hopefully someone will address these issues.
     
  12. Andria

    Andria New Member

    I'm not sure if I have followed this thread exactly, and I'd like to understand what this is about.

    I take it that some condo associations have gone rogue;
    That there is a fee being put on some deals that seems meaningless and is not disclosed;
    That the same fee is making a fair amount of money for someone;
    That a law firm has extended an opinion about something that seems to be doing little good;
    Or that the law firm opinion indicated there was little that could be done about whatever it was;
    That there are some compliance issues with the main CC&Rs and some condo communities may have a blind eye;
    That some good people feel like they have played by the rules, only to have that not be the case with some other owners and nothing is being done.

    I live in a condo community and there are always some problems with some owners. And people get on these boards to do their personal bidding oftentimes, rather than do their best for all owners.
     
  13. Andria

    Andria New Member

    Emily, you said: I think the $20 a year should be mandatory. SCHOA also has the CIP and RAMP programs. Usually, when we renew our membership, we contribute to those as well. You are helping your neighbors and Sun City. Their e-blasts are very timely and informative.

    What is CIP and RAMP?
     
  14. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Hey Andria: One of the challenges of boards like this is to tell the story without revisiting everything that has happened to get us to the point we are at. To answer some of your questions, let me try it this way:
    I take it that some condo associations have gone rogue; There are a couple of them who feel they are above the community standards set by SCHOA. The bulk of them have language setting SCHOA as one of their options for enforcement.
    That there is a fee being put on some deals that seems meaningless and is not disclosed; SCHOA functions on a very tight budget with less than 25% of the residents paying for membership. 5 years back or so someone at SCHOA decided they could charge an inspection fee to the mortgage company. Apparently it was $50 at inception, but has now ballooned to $200.
    That the same fee is making a fair amount of money for someone; At $200 per property and more than 2000 properties selling this year, it comes in at a neat $40,000.
    That a law firm has extended an opinion about something that seems to be doing little good; Recently Ekmark and Ekmark told SCHOA "grandfathered properties cannot be made to come into compliance.

    The rest of the questions follow the same line as the ones answered. SCHOA has always had discretionary powers in that the CC&R's state SCHOA "may" do this or that. While some cringe at that flexibility, the beauty of it is we have been able to bend when needed, and to be firm when it was necessary. It's also one of the reasons SCHOA has been in a constant state of flux. There was a time when 75% to 80% of the home owners belonged to the organization (pretty impressive for a voluntary arrangement).

    I know first hand the challenges of running SCHOA. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It's why it is so critical the board of directors and the staffers are consistent in running the organization. We had remarkable stability for the past 5 years, and then the board invited Bill S (general manager) to move on. Apparently there were some personality differences, nothing new to volunteer organizations.

    It's like I have always said; the best thing is it's a community run by volunteers while the worst thing about Sun City is, it's a community run by volunteers. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

    My point regarding the $200 fee paid at closing was simple; if they are charging it, they ought be up front about it and disclose it on their website, not bury it in hopes no one will know. Its that kind of crap that gets people distrusting them.
     
  15. Mullet

    Mullet Member

    Twenty measly dollars a year and less than a quarter of the residents join? Sorry but I think that reflects poorly on the residents of this fine community. Make it manditory and get rid of the $200 lien fee.
     
  16. BPearson

    BPearson Well-Known Member

    Two things that invariably happen when folks buy here and get involved with SCHOA are this: They want to rewrite the CC&R's to be more clear and they want SCHOA to become an organization that has mandatory dues. Both have merit, but it would take an act of congress to change them.

    In 1998/1999 two SCHOA board members undertook the quest to modify the CC&R's. We're not talking a major overhaul, just minor tweaks. It took about a year and half and every "section" defined by a plat map had to independently vote 50% plus one to get them passed. The guys doing it were zealots, with a huge number of sections within the walls, it meant they had to record every one of them and track how many more homes they needed. The last ones took door knocking on a home by home basis. And this was during a time when many owners belonged and joined organizations.

    The second action, making dues mandatory is another dream many of us have had. If you stop and think about it, dues could be as little as $10 per household and it would generate more than three times what they get now. To do so would again entail a massive amount of work. You'd have to start with rewriting the Articles of Incorporation and then passing them across the community.

    If that was done, it would in all likelihood trigger SCHOA falling under Title 33 of the state statutes, which opens up a whole new can of worms. The requirements of the statute for planned communities is explicit in how it is administered and what must be done to be in compliance. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen, and as much as it sounds good, going there starts us down the slope to the myriad of problems HOA's face around the country.

    Think about it in these terms; in spite of the stumbling blocks SCHOA faces, we have one of the most unique and special home owners associations in existence. The two programs we created when we rebuilt SCHOA are exemplary. We know some residents outlive their resources and don't have the where-with-all to take care of their problems, so we do it for them (no charge). Where does that exist in the world of HOA's?

    The second also addresses a need. We have any number of absentee owners who leave their properties in a state of neglect. Rather than subjecting the neighbors to this mess, we send letters advising the owner to clean them up or we will do it for them. If they don't comply, we bill them when it's done and if they don't pay, lien the property.

    Along with a compliance department where they are flexible and fair, we enjoy an organization that works. I rant about shortcomings because we cannot afford to let SCHOA slip back into the comfort of non-compliance. I complain because the organization absolutely need be transparent in its actions. Boomers are less trustworthy of organizations than the "greatest generation" was. That said, we will support those who add to the community's values and obviously our own property values.

    It was a long ugly fight to rebuild SCHOA and a slew of folks took part in its rebirth. It's not perfect, but it's a damn sight better than any of the other options out there. It's why everyone should join, belong and speak out.

    Hope that helps clarify SCHOA and the challenges it faces.
     
  17. aggie

    aggie Well-Known Member

    Bill P. said "My point regarding the $200 fee paid at closing was simple; if they are charging it, they ought be up front about it and disclose it on their website, not bury it in hopes no one will know. Its that kind of crap that gets people distrusting them."

    I forgot to get back to you on this point. It's the Title Company that requests the service from SCHOA to search their records and disclose any problems with the property in regards to CC&R violations. The Title Company is charged the $200 fee. SCHOA doesn't require the search. The number of searches is probably less than half of the property transfers in Sun City as private sales, estate transfers and most condo sales wouldn't request the search from SCHOA.
     
  18. Mullet

    Mullet Member

    Does anyone have any idea how the SCHOA acknowledges online memberships? I received paypal confirmation of my payment. That was on the 18th. Since I hadn't heard anything, I emailed them yesterday. Silence. I was hoping to do some research on affiliate businesses. Are my expectations regarding a response(s) unreasonable?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  19. J_and_V

    J_and_V Member

    My confirmation came back 6 days after I signed us up. The e-mail welcome/confirmation came from e-mail address - marketing@suncityhoa.org

    Or a call would work
     
  20. Mullet

    Mullet Member

    For those on the edge of their seats: I called SCHOA this afternoon. I was in their database as a member and she got me logged in. All's well.
     

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