Is it legal to exclude snowbirds from being directors

I will play the devil's advocate here. My impression is Snowbirds as a group are more affluent and participate more in activities than full time residents. If snowbirds were aware that they were being excluded from the only decision-making positions available to members, would they still buy in Sun City? I think snowbirds account for 40% of the Sun City population and most certainly account for more economic activity during peak months than the full-time resident population. I think everyone on this post is a full time resident and the sense I get is you so not want Snowbirds in Sun City.

 

John,
It reading your last post, in my interpretation, you appear to be a snob. You want rich, part time residents who will not be available for at least part of the year, probably not Arizona residents who you feel have a greater understanding because you suspect they use the facilities often than regular members. I think that is a reasonable summation of what has been posted?
So, rather than expand the availability of candidates to Arizona residents who are local, and adjust the working hours for the board, you propose changing the bylaws to allow potential non-US citizens lead the RCSC? Because they are affluent and use the facilities? Sorry, but that’s how it reads to me.

 

Not to agree/disagree with anyone, however I have said several times on this site that snowbirds must have done something right financially during their lifetime to be able to retire owning two homes. Not even sure if they would want to volunteer as their life has to be very full already taking care of two properties, but I think they should be allowed to be a board member if they want to. I disagree with John 100% about people who don't use the rec centers are not smart enough to serve. If a person only uses the pools and nothing else how does that give them an insight to all the other clubs? Many people only golf and have not set foot in a rec center.

Just my opinion.

 

This has bothered me since you posted it. I have not commented on any activities. I used to golf, swim, bowl and hang out at the silver crafting club at Bell, oh yeah, mini golf where I may have been the only person who had to yell "fore".

You comment on me and judge me like you know me, which reminds me of someone else on this site. Instead of guessing about my participation just ask if I do or not and if not why not.

Must go now as I have to take my dog to the Vet. Even though I am not licensed in Veterinary Medicine I can still see that his leg is swollen and needs attention..........My favorite Moira Rose quote would work very well here.

Enjoy your day!

 

If I read the responses correctly, I am a snob because I favor letting every member in good standing have the right to run for the Board if they so choose. This would not preclude ANYONE from running for the Board. As I mentioned I see no legitimate reason to exclude snowbirds. However, given the anger expressed in relation to the question even being posed I can surmise that full time residents want to control all recreational decisions even though others also provide funds for recreational activities. To me this is taxation without representation.

 

You do say anyone should be allowed to run for a board position, however you have also said if a person does not use the centers they should not be allowed to hold a board position.

If everyone in life adhered to that opinion, I wonder how many startup businesses would never have happened. Oprah would just be someone.

 

John,
The snob comment was in direct relation to the implied belief that snowbirds have greater wealth than the working stiffs still with their noses to the grindstone. The one snowbird, who claims Utah’s his home state, lives in a mobile home. It’s older, but paid for. He sold his plumbing business and made enough money to purchase the house here in Sun City for a song because of the level of disrepair it was in. He still works on his family’s homes in the area, which provides additional income. He only golfs.
The other snowbird is from Washington state, which he claims as home. He gets his money through litigation. Does fairly well with the settlements he receives. Even sued the company that put in his pool. Doesn’t use any facilities.
Please forgive any argumentative overtones. I rather have my governance done by local people for local people. It doesn’t matter if you are a snowbird or not, the learning curve for being a director is immense. And with no possibility of change in sight to redo the status quo, any new person is tasked with learning how the RCSC works by the seat of their pants.
I don’t support those that can only be here half of the year, as things progress quickly around here and the need to be able to gauge the pulse of the organization is done with expediency.
I still support the need for a significant digital footprint be in place to support part time directors and a method of communication with the members and community in a real time fashion in the presence of members with interaction available.
Peace John

 

With all due respect, I don't understand John's reluctance to accept certain qualifications to serving as a Director?

We all must meet the qualifications in the State's and corporate documents or else that leaves a free-for-all.

If we all have "equal rights as Members" then why can't we attend board meetings held in executive session? Because as a non-Director, we would have to be invited to attend.
Why can't we read the Minutes from those sessions? Because we are not members of that body.
Why can only the Board approve amendments to the Board Policies? Because that's what our bylaws are telling us.
Why can amendments to the Articles of Incorporation only be approved by the Members? Because that's a restriction placed on the Directors!

Not all things are equal, nor should they be or else their is no structure to the organization!

But I do agree that the qualifications to run and serve on the board do need to be looked at and broadened, but along with that, there needs to be certain restrictions placed on allowing those out-of-staters to serve to make sure they can be fully kept up to speed and not just remotely call-in to most meetings.

I whole heartedly invite John to attend or perhaps become a member of the Election Committee. We have a meeting next Wednesday at 1 pm in the Board room! We could use the help with new ideas so Members will want to run for the Board. All the negativity we hear and read about doesn't encourage anyone to serve.

The election committee could suggest ways of reducing the time required to serve on the Board by placing some responsibilities (Chair, Co-Chair, Liaisons) on the Members, and lighten-up on the qualification to become a Candidate, we could make that Report to the Board.

I think the Board needs to lighten-up on their tight-grip on the corporation and allow the Members to drive more decisions. I think it would help everybody?

Just my opinion.

 

Carole, nothing progresses quickly in Sun City other than rumors. My case in point: the Mountainview renovation. How long has that been pending? The rules have been altered to assure that the status quo continues to govern. Got a pet project? No problem, we’ll just slip it on the wish list and it’ll grow legs and next thing you know, miraculously the funding appears. (Think puppy palace or performing arts building). See, it really doesn’t matter what the members want, it only matters what five board members agree on.

 

Larry,
My lament is that I have to agree with you. I know of no one who is going to run for a board position with an agenda of being a change agent. What this means to me is someone who will look to change the status quo and challenge the board members to adapt and adopt new methodology in work practices. Change the structure of how committees are managed. Change the work flow of the directors to enable them to be more productive in the governance of Sun City and not drowning in minutia. Change golf practices and create better revenue opportunities. Redirect the workflow of the directors of the board by offloading email to pre-readers that can classify the content and determine urgency and assess if it needs a director attention. And for heavens sake, restore members benefits.
I had such high hopes for this coming year, but I fear those hopes are dashed as well.
So we have the same old $hit, different day.

 

“whole heartedly invite John to attend or perhaps become a member of the Election Committee. We have a meeting next Wednesday at 1 pm in the Board room! We could use the help with new ideas so Members will want to run for the Board. All the negativity we hear and read about doesn't encourage anyone to serve.”

Wouldn’t the election committee have been apprised of the board’s decision or intentions as to how it was going to proceed with the vacancy placement or forgo placing someone and waiting for the yearly election?

 

So much angst, and for what? Boomers came in and took over for The Greatest Generation. Things changed. Gen X will come and take over for Boomers. Things will change again. As it should be.

 

Why on earth would any retiree want to spend the amount of time required to be a board member? You’re absolutely right that this train goes in only one direction and there’s no turning it. The group doesn’t want directors, they want micro managers. Your comments are absolutely spot on and explain why most people don’t want a thing to do with the process. If anyone has ever been in a position where success in measured by satisfactory completion of tasks, don’t apply to be a RCSC board member.

 

They tell us nothing. They won't even tell us the names of those who picked up Candidate Packets until those packets are finally turned back in!

We learn when everybody else learns through a RCSC email blast in October!

 

new board
I can assure you, this was not always the case. The Elections Committee was at one time the place to go as a candidate with questions. They actively recruited candidates and provided information to these prospective candidates on what it takes to be a board member. The Elections Committee was the leader for the members and their consideration of running.

 

A
Larry,
Everything is changeable, everything has a lifecycle and perhaps its time to review the lifecycle of some of the current practices. Maybe they need to hire a change agent, because its obvious one will not get elected and be allowed to perform the needed tasks

 

Carole, perhaps the Election committee isn’t actively recruiting year round.

They are however, providing information opportunities for potential candidates.

Interested in attending an informational meeting?
• What to expect?
• View last year’s Board of Directors Candidate Informational Meetings:

# 1 Held at 3pm on Monday, June 4, 2024 at the Lakeview Recreation Center. HERE.

# 2 Held at 3pm on Tuesday, September 24, 2024 at the Lakeview Recreation Center. HERE.

 

I think participation in amenities is a goal set that falls to the GM and his/her staff. It seems we are relegating staff to maintenance there is a lot of potential for them to influence recreation and provide choice activities.