One of the sweet and often cited ironies of Sun City is the fact, we are not a city. We have no mayor, no city council, no planning dept or city planner, no police force and the biggie, no taxes to fund all the trappings that comes with being a city. That ship sailed long ago. The last and only actual vote we took was in 1964. It wasn't close and every effort to incorporate since then has failed miserably. Some lament it, some love the fact we are different, unique. I'm one of those who fall in the camp of endorsing and embracing our uniqueness. It was one of the reasons we elected Sun City as our forever home. We'll be buried here, or at least our ashes will be stored here. I always loved the collectivist setting where those moving to the community could in fact take ownership of the process known as self-governance. The longer we have lived in Sun City, the more i have come to appreciate the simplicity of a concept built on the values that included accountability, responsibility and most importantly that sense of community. The difficulty is and always has been getting those buying here to understand, we most likely aren't like where they came from. During those first 18 years, the Del E Webb Development Corporation (DEVCO), worked tirelessly to help insure those buying into the community knew and understood the vital role (as an owner), they would play. They were so effective at convincing them they were the owners, the owners shot down the once chance they had to become a city. Those living here loved what they had and they didn't want it to change. The trade-off for those city services was the owners/members had an obligation; they had to put up their hands and say, "I'll do that." To everyone's surprise, they did so in spades. Volunteerism, giving back and taking ownership played a HUGE role in Sun City's success. More importantly, those doing it, reported their efforts got them back in the game, made them feel like they were still contributing. The essential piece of the puzzle was they came to understand was, there was more to life than playing golf, hanging around the pool or dancing and drinking with friends. They had purpose in their lives. After DEVCO left the end of the 70's, the role of the membership grew even larger. With the company gone, it was all on the members. And, at times it got butt ugly. The infighting over direction was fierce, because members understood what they had was worth fighting for. It still is, in spite of a detour along the way. In 2006, the board decided we needed to hire a general manager and give her more authority. Within three years, all of those board members were gone and the course correction grew to levels that were stunning. So much so, in 2011, i did something i said i didn't want to do...run for the RCSC board of directors. From 2012-2014, i served in a capacity i grew to dislike. I made no impact as a board member, that's what happens when in the minority (kind of a lonely spot, eh Carole?). You get out voted and you watch as we drifted further and further from our roots. By the time i was elected, i knew our history better than most and i believed the direction we were headed in was wrong. I knew the entirety of big picture Sun City was built around volunteerism and when the single largest, most impactful organization said volunteering didn't matter, the outcome for the community would be destructive. It mattered not and we plowed down that path for years to come. The pandemic had an impact on all of our lives, it still does. Coming out of it, we transitioned to a new general manager, one who was hand-picked by the former GM. He was short-lived for a lot of reasons. Four years later, we're still battling the demons created by destroying our documents and the membership safeguards built into them. Rebuilding, rebooting an organization this size is incredibly difficult. It's never easy and there's always turmoil and angst. We've all seen it, but i would argue, we are on the right path...the question is, can we stay on it? All of which is just a long-winded effort to help readers of this blog and reading it on social media understand a couple of basic tenets of our community: 1). There are no "leaders," in spite what you see from a couple of folks whining about leaders. The closest thing we have are general managers or executive directors who serve in paid positions. They have the responsibility of overseeing the employees of the organization while serving at the pleasure of the board members. 2). What we do have and have always had were those living here putting their hand up and saying, "I"ll do that." While some of those elected board positions get titles, their job description is included in the board documents that spell out the additional duties they have. In the end, one board member, one vote. 3). Unless or until Sun City votes to incorporate, we will rely on those volunteers to do the heavy lifting. I don't see that happening any time soon, and so at least for now, one of our community goals should be to encourage, to nurture volunteers and give them the tools to succeed. Let me wrap this up with something even more basic; those volunteering deserve the respect and thanks for being willing to stick their hands in the air and take on the responsibility others don't want. I've had more than my share of disagreements with board members, its never been personal. I've always argued the direction or the reason they are doing what they are doing. The hired help is on wholly different plain, they're paid to do a job. Countless numbers of men and women (volunteers) have been the defining difference between us and most other age restricted communities. Since our founding in 1960, there's been tens of thousands of seniors living here who have freely given of their time, talents and expertise. Demeaning them is simply an exercise in foolishness. Disagree all you want with the outcomes or direction, insulting them for giving back while you sat on the sidelines and did nothing to make the community a better place is disgusting. In the end, this story that includes our amazing history, there will be this simple summary of all of us who have tried to make a difference: We were all just guys or just gals who tried to make a difference; not a one of us who will ever be labeled "leader." Hoping that helps clarify the nonsense being spouted!
Not just a guy. An "elected community leader" refers to a person who has been chosen by community members through a democratic process, like voting, to represent and advocate for their interests, often in a formal or official capacity. Here's a more detailed breakdown: Elected: This signifies that the person's position is the result of a selection process, typically involving a vote or other form of community participation. Community: This indicates that the leader's role is focused on the well-being and representation of a specific group of people within a defined area or shared interest. Leader: This suggests that the person is expected to guide, influence, and make decisions that affect the community, often acting as a spokesperson or advocate. Examples: This could include a mayor, a council member, a school board member, or a representative of a neighborhood association, all of whom are elected by the community they serve. Key Responsibilities: Elected community leaders are expected to: Represent the interests and concerns of their constituents. Advocate for policies and programs that benefit the community. Collaborate with other leaders and stakeholders to address community issues. Promote community engagement and participation.
Like i said, the tens of thousands of us who have volunteered, (rather than sitting on the sidelines doing nothing but whining), are all just the guy, or just the gal that were willing to put our hands up and say, "yup, we'll do that." Anything after that is just noise from the cheap seats who have never contributed anything. Volunteering is a personal choice, attacking those that do is utter madness. I guess if it makes you feel better, at least that's something. On the other hand; i find living in Sun City a remarkable sense of joy, peace and satisfaction from giving back and being a part of this amazing social experiment.
If they were not elected "leaders" how were they able to silence us by not allowing a vote? There was no "noise" from the cheap seats at that meeting. I am not attacking anyone, I am disagreeing with you. If the board and the members were equal we would have been able to vote.
Bill, Well written and loved the thoughtfulness of the post. It’s interesting that those who have served in the past, still try to make a difference in one way or another. Some actively while others keep the ideas and and promises of a better community alive by providing thoughtful discussion. I think of Jean and her tireless efforts to educate others of her beliefs for a better Sun City. I think of you, Bill, for being upfront and present about the issues, we, as a community need to address. I applaud John for taking the slings and arrows in trying to provide the membership the right to have a vote as outlined in the corporate documents. There is FYI and eyesopen that offers us the best possible guidance on various topics that I appreciate reading. Carptrash has always been an excellent source of information and entertainment and do love to read the input. There are others that provide great insights and content to keep this site useful and enjoyable. This site is not Sun City, rather a glimpse of those who care deeply about their community and what they can offer to make it better. Yes, there is static and noise that appears, but most know by now it’s not relevant or valuable input. I am saddened by those that have left the site who were once regular posters. Please know you had a positive impact on myself and others with your insights. I appreciate your honesty in your posts and also wish to thank all who give back to the community with their time and support. Without exception, you people make this the best possible experience for all living here can enjoy. It’s with all of us, keeping our eyes on the needs of today as well as hoping for a better future, help shape our direction for the positive. I appreciate those efforts to make this a better place for everyone, now and for our future.
Please make up your minds. It's no wonder residents just stay home. I have always considered the board members to be the representatives of the community on behalf of the RCSC. That’s how Bill and I worked while on the board. We made every effort to be out in front with the members and remember who we were truly representing. Asking board members to go out and be in the community with the members may make some rather nervous and I understand why. Not all people are willing to have civil discussions and come become terse with the board members. For this reason, it would be advisable for at least two members be together to offer support to the fellow board member and the community who took the time to participate. Most people are very happy to see their governing committee members present and are very kind and supportive of those serving. CMartinez, Saturday at 5:02 PM It's just hard to take SC seriously when our elected volunteers/leaders/representatives who contradict themselves and each other regularly and change the rules last minute regarding a meeting where members are supposed to vote. Maybe the board are not just guys and gals or leaders. Maybe they are elected to tell what we can and can't say or do, what will be built or won't be....what's the title for that?
The above post was really thought provoking for me as a someone who has been labeled by several members of the board as an enemy of the state. Are we on the right path or just the same path with some new window dressing? So far Mountainview has been one of the tests. The other test we passed with flying colors. We all came to realize that our GM lacked critical skills and parted company. With MountainView I see glimmers of hope mixed with messages from the past. IMHO the Board under Kat Fimmel took a run at shutting down the SAC and making all the decisions behind closed doors: PAC at Lakeview and more pickleball at Mountainview. IMHO that went horribly. Two directors resigned, the members voiced their extreme displeasure, and a recall campaign was started. A new board and all of the sudden a project to completely rebuild Quail Run had already been started without several board members knowing the project even existed. Three golfers on the board? Same play different actors? I hope not. Which brings me to the huge elephant in the room. Should RCSC use precious capital to build a special purpose theater when only the Player's club has a need for such a building. Of the 159 55+ communities in Arizona only about two have such dedicated theaters. Due to COVID and an explosion of in-home entertainment choices live theater has been struggling mightily. Virtually all theaters rely on generous donations from benefactors to stay afloat. Does Sun City have such benefactors? So, where does that leave us? Stakeholders meetings behind closed doors and a conceptual design to be developed based on those meetings. Hmm. Is this option 2 the sequel or will reality in the form of data reign supreme? Stay tuned
IMHO John I believe golf is the elephant in the room. Why earmark million(S) for golf? I would really like to hear an answer to this question. A multi-purpose facility for players and other clubs/activities would be great. And retractable seating would work great for all. Get ‘er done with thought and logic!
IMHO Tom I agree our membership has come to grips with the cost of maintaining golf courses and how we can best utilize our investment to maximize the revenue we receive. This may involve inconveniencing some members but will benefit our community as a whole.
If one applies thought and logic to this situation, it will be proven that money allocated to a theatre type structure is a waste of good money. The location, in the far recesses of the community, is not in the benefit for the entirety of Sun City. The requirement for parking, as defined by Maricopa County, can’t be met at this location. The construction and continued costs to the membership, in the increased assessment fees will be ongoing forever. There’s no reason for this type of venue to be placed at Mountainview, or any where else for that matter. Modify Sundial and outfit it with retractable seating and the needs can be met, using the existing design and features at a significant cost savings overall for the RCSC and the membership. Unfortunately, the golf courses are here, need to be maintained, and the RCSC has a mandate from the state to perform in certain circumstances. Are there other options for the RCSC to pursue in regards to the courses? It’s a ticklish situation that will require a lot of thought and consideration moving forward. The difference between golf and a theater venue is one we have no choice with, the other is clearly a choice of want versus need. We need to maintain the courses, we don’t need a theater.
Golf/Theater? Personally I don't see a need for a large theater, and I don't golf anymore, but staying with the theme of this thread won't the 9 "elected volunteers" make the choice as they see fit for all of the residents? I don't think we will have a say. but ya never know.
